Doctrines of Demons???

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

But they allow them to attend your services, or must they take classes first. I honestly don't have a clue about your practices. But I do respect your works.

Yes they can still attend meetings, in fact the elders I'm the congregation encourage those that are disfellowshipped to come to the meetings. However because they are disfellowshipped when they come to the meetings no one will greet them or shake their hand say hello or eat a meal with such a person until the brothers(elders) tell the congregation the person who has been disfellowshipped has been reinstated.
Occasionally, a person deviates from the path of truth. For example, despite help from Christian elders, he may unrepentantly violate God’s laws. He may reject the faith by teaching false doctrine. Such things did occur while the apostles were alive.

When a man in Corinth was unrepentantly immoral, Paul told the congregation: “Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man.” (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) The same was to occur with apostates, such as Hymenaeus: “As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning.” (Titus 3:10, 11; 1 Timothy 1:19, 20) Such shunning would be appropriate, too, for anyone who rejects the congregation: “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort.”—1 John 2:18, 19.

Hopefully, such a people who have been disfellowshipped will repent so that they can be accepted back. (Acts 3:19)

In the apostle John’s writings, we find similar counsel that emphasizes how thoroughly Christians are to avoid those who are baptized and starts preaching false doctrine. “Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God, If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting [Greek, to him is a sharer in his wicked works.” 2 John 9-11.
We can be be sure that God’s arrangement that Christians refuse to fellowship with someone who has been expelled for unrepentant sin is a wise protection for us. “Clear away the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, according as you are free from ferment.” (1 Corinthians 5:7) By also avoiding persons who have deliberately disassociated themselves, Christians are protected from possible critical, unappreciative, or even apostate views.Hebrews 12:15, 16.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Our spirit, prior to being born again was dead, non-functional.

You are not interpreting according to scripture. "I was alive before the law, but once the law came I died." It just shows that it would take tearing down the whole house of cards to rebuild what is real before you are even going to begin to learn. For one thing, you are not even trying to think. There are three situations and they are all written in present tense, but you can't see it.

First, Paul would have been over 1300 years old when writing this and in present tense. So think. Was Paul that old?

Second, it clearly is talking about the Old Covenant of the Law and in the present tense. Was Paul still in the Old Covenant?

Third, it clearly says in present tense that the Spirit freed Him basically from the Old Covenant? Are they all current just because they are written in present tense? Its a teaching tool - no more than that - a style of teaching. Oy vey! Use your head for more than a place to set your hat. This kind of nonsense just makes me mad. It makes me know you just don't care. You have no fear of the Lord, and will parrot false teachers.

People, you have no idea how many fools say the words "present tense" and "including themselves" when it comes to verses about the unsaved, and they apply them to themselves as to Christians. This guy even uses present for the ancient past!!! That's not even trying. How old to we have to be to stop being a baby Christian, and cannot even understand when it is spelled out for us.???

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

But first clear out all preconceived ideas you have been taught all your life, and read it like its the first time ever. I know that will be hard, but until the Spirit actually opened my mind, I couldn't see anything remotely of truth - only what my SDA denomination said.

Okay, you are deceiving yourself.
You believe that you do not sin. The Law was given to us so that man could know what sin is. You evidently have discarded the Law and although you feel it applies to other people as it remains in place for them to understand what sin is, Jesus has not only taken your sins away but has also excused you from keeping His commandments (of which all the law and prophets falls under). We are sinners, who not only have been forgiven dor past sins, but future sins.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Okay, you are deceiving yourself.
You believe that you do not sin. The Law was given to us so that man could know what sin is. You evidently have discarded the Law and although you feel it applies to other people as it remains in place for them to understand what sin is, Jesus has not only taken your sins away but has also excused you from keeping His commandments (of which all the law and prophets falls under). We are sinners, who not only have been forgiven dor past sins, but future sins.

I don't. Jesus took away my sin nature; I even felt it lift off of me. Ron, you have no idea how short time is, and you are right in the middle of "the falling away" from believing the words of Jesus. You look at other people and yourself and see that they are all sinning. Well, there are few that find the real truth, and are empowered with the divine nature of God. 2 Peter 1:2-4 Be one too!

Jesus taking away our sin is exactly the reason we DON'T NEED THE LAW TO SHOW US OUR SIN! Don't you really even WANT to understand. Would you rather stay with itching ears and gather teachers to tell you can do what you want, and Jesus is going to save you anyway, and you'll spread that lie to others? It is NOT TRUE.

Are you willing for this to happen to you - and soon?

Matthew 7:21-23
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

1 John 3:6
6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Ron, only your past sins were forgiven. Not your future sins. 2 Peter 1:9. You are the one who is deceiving yourself. The Spirit and new nature that has the laws of God written on them to naturally keep them - see you don't know what you are talking about - makes it so we do not sin in the present, nor the future. Without the Spirit, we cannot be righteous or holy as required. Revelation 22:11

If I sound like I'm picking on you, I can't help it. The Antichrist will probably be here next year and if you haven't overcome by then, you'll lose your head in the Great Tribulation, so it is out of love I'm panicked for you and the false doctrines you are standing on that fly right in the face of Christ. A slap in His face.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
<<<Tong, What the Ten Commandments were based on, but could not fulfill because they didn't go deeper than the outside surface was Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. That is the first reason. The laws of LOVE are the eternal laws of God, and the laws of Jesus fulfill those deeper laws, but even a further reason.>>>

You said it yourself, “The laws of LOVE are the eternal laws of God”. I contend that the ten commandments are laws of love. In fact in scriptures, Paul said:

Romans 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” “You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are allsummed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

So, I don’t see what you say there as to the reason why the old covenant (which for you are only the ten commandments) needs to be replaced.

Honestly, I do not find in your second and third paragraph, any that answers my other questions.

You shall love your neighbor. But the Ten Commandments only says not to murder them, nothing about hate. What Romans is saying is that when you love, which is the New Covenant commandment, you are not breaking the Ten Commandments, only going deeper to the source.

Romans 13:9 clearly tells is that the commandments are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” All summed up. I am sure you know what that means.

If you will examine the ten commandments, you don’t find even the word “love” there. Yet Romans 13:9 tells is that they are all summed up to a single command that involves “love”. It only shows that the ten commandments are about love and are founded on love. The truth is the source of the ten commandments is God. Now scriptures tells us that God is love, right? That is why we have scriptures tell us that the commandment is holy, just, and good.

So, I still don’t see what you say there as to the reason why the old covenant (which for you are only the ten commandments) needs to be replaced.

Tong
R4530

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I don't. Jesus took away my sin natuinre; I even felt it lift off of me. Ron, you have no idea how short time is, and you are right in the middle of "the falling away" from believing the words of Jesus. You look at other people and yourself and see that they are all sinning. Well, there are few that find the real truth, and are empowered with the divine nature of God. 2 Peter 1:2-4 Be one too!

The Holy Spirit sanctifies us. That is two-fold: spiritually in an instant and gradually throughout our lives as we live still with the flesh. The bondage and penalty of our sins is lifted off instantly when you are born again. But we still fail to love our neighbors and God with ALL our hearts and strength. Do you see 2.65 billiin Mother Teresas and Billy Graham' s? I don't.
Your assesment of my faith is in error. You don't know me and you implication of me having weak faith and on the verge of falling away is untrue. My faith is solid. I will be tested. You will be too.
>> Your spirit is clean but do you believe your love for everyone is perfect? Do you get up everyday and live a perfect life as if a exact expression of Christ? We may experience some days or moments when we are filled with the Spirit and doing His work - but not always.
Gal. 5:16 Walk on the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. See, The lust of the flesh is still there.

Well, there are few that find the real truth, and are empowered with the divine nature of God. 2 Peter 1:2-4 Be one too!

And I have been for 30 years.
Romans 6:12-14 "...let no mortal sin reign in your mortal body." It takes a daily effort with continois Bible study and prayer to morify the fleshly desires. I have for the most part but after 30 years but am not perfect. Being selfish at times is not loving your neighbor as you love yourself. Choosing not to help someone when you could is another failure. We still fail to love perfectly - unless youbtook Mother Teresa's place ... did you? No

Jesus taking away our sin is exactly the reason we DON'T NEED THE LAW TO SHOW US OUR SIN! Don't you really even WANT to understand

We are saved by grace through faith, not by works, it is a gift from God. We are under Grace, not the Law, but we are required to be obedient to His Commandments. It is the Law of Love. He said all laws fall under those two that He gave us. He fulfilled the requirements of the Law for us, because we can't - we fail. It does not mean He abolished the Law. What it does mean is that He removed our death penalty - for those who believe.
You cannot disobey the law without consequences. He will chastise thise He loves and punish in this life if you are sinful. You want suffer damnation, but you will reap what you sow.
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matt. 7:17-19

Matthew 7:21-23
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Matthew was speaking to the Jews. It is said the Gospel of Matthew is geared towards the Jewish converts since it does discuss the Law and the prophets. So when, in a near future time, when JESUS returns, some unbelieving Jews will plead with Him on Judgment Day: "Didn't we cast out demons, do this, do that, bla, bla, bla ...? Unbelieving Gentiles weren't doing that, these are the Jews who lived under the Law but rejected Christ. Jesus says, "away from me, I do not know you." Jesus is all knowing, He doesn't mean He doesn't know who they are, He knows everything, He has to in order to judge them. What He is saying is: away from me, I did not have a relationship with you."

Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

I wrestled with that scripture for a long time. We are in Christ and when we are walking in the Spirit, obedient to Him, we don't sin. "Whoever willfully sins and practices sin, does not know Him. But back to Paul. "It is not I but sin that dwells in me." He is trying to explain that He sees the Law of the mind and it wars against the law of the flesh.
Read through these scriptures. We are still sinners who must make an effort to not sin.
1 Cor. 10:13
Matt. 18:15
James 5:16
James 4 :7, 8
Hebrews 10:26
1 John 1:7-9
Matt. 7:3
Col. 3
1 John 5:16

If I sound like I'm picking on you, I can't help it. The Antichrist will probably be here next year and if you haven't overcome by then, you'll lose your head in the Great Tribulation, so it is out of love I'm panicked for you and the false doctrines you are standing on that fly right in the face of Christ. A slap in His face.

Don 't worry anout me.
Nothing thay we ha e been discussing would be considered doctrines of demons. Misunderatanding of scriptures is common.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Romans 13:9 clearly tells is that the commandments are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” All summed up. I am sure you know what that means.

If you will examine the ten commandments, you don’t find even the word “love” there. Yet Romans 13:9 tells is that they are all summed up to a single command that involves “love”. It only shows that the ten commandments are about love and are founded on love. The truth is the source of the ten commandments is God. Now scriptures tells us that God is love, right? That is why we have scriptures tell us that the commandment is holy, just, and good.

So, I still don’t see what you say there as to the reason why the old covenant (which for you are only the ten commandments) needs to be replaced.

Tong
R4530

Actually, the Ten Commandments were fashioned after Love, but could not measure up. The New Covenant Commandments actually do. In fact, they are harder than the surface commandments of the Old Covenant. But easier in that the indwelling Holy Spirit causes us to keep them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Gal. 5:16 Walk on the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh. See, The lust of the flesh is still there.

Not unless it isn't dead. Not only do we need to examine ourselves to see if we still have the old carnal desire to sin, which makes us unsaved. But also make sure we have the power of the Holy Spirit indwelling in us that creates a new nature that partakes of the divine nature of God. Ronald, what you don't realize is we don't have both - a carnal nature of darkness, and the light of the Holy Spirit. We are either saved or unsaved, but not both.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

We are saved by grace through faith, not by works, it is a gift from God. We are under Grace, not the Law, but we are required to be obedient to His Commandments. It is the Law of Love. He said all laws fall under those two that He gave us. He fulfilled the requirements of the Law for us, because we can't - we fail. It does not mean He abolished the Law. What it does mean is that He removed our death penalty - for those who believe.

This is unbelievably wrong. Romans 6 says the wages of sin is still death, so the penalty is still there. What is different is the true meaning of Grace. It is not getting away with murder. It is the divine power of God given to us to start making us like Christ, and no longer sinning in the first place.

Romans 6:
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Look at it this way:

The Son of God became the Son of Man, so that the sons of man, may become the sons of God.

 

[Tong2020]

Actually, the Ten Commandments were fashioned after Love, but could not measure up. The New Covenant Commandments actually do. In fact, they are harder than the surface commandments of the Old Covenant. But easier in that the indwelling Holy Spirit causes us to keep them.

As for me, the ten commandments are more than founded on love. For me, the letters or words written in stones, so to speak, are shadows or representative of a reality. The reality which is spirit. And such is primarily, love.

So for me, it is not that the ten commandments could not measure up, but that the man, on its own, even the chosen Israel, were evidently shown as cannot measure up. And I’d say that this is consistent with what scriptures says what purpose the law serves, that is, as Israel’s tutor to bring them to Christ, that they might be justified by faith.

Tong
R4568

 

[1stCenturyLady]

As for me, the ten commandments are more than founded on love. For me, the letters or words written in stones, so to speak, are shadows or representative of a reality. The reality which is spirit. And such is primarily, love.

So for me, it is not that the ten commandments could not measure up, but that the man, on its own, even the chosen Israel, were evidently shown as cannot measure up. And I’d say that this is consistent with what scriptures says what purpose the law serves, that is, as Israel’s tutor to bring them to Christ, that they might be justified by faith.

Tong
R4568

So you must keep the 7th day Sabbath? Is that why you want to keep the Old Covenant commandments?

Read 2 Corinthians 3:6-11
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

 

[Tong2020]

So you must keep the 7th day Sabbath? Is that why you want to keep the Old Covenant commandments?

No, I don’t keep the Sabbath in the old covenant way. For the old covenant was replaced by the new covenant. You know how it is now. We serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the he oldness of the letter.

Read 2 Corinthians 3:6-11
6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory. 10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels. 11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

Yes.

Tong
R4571

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No, I don’t keep the Sabbath in the old covenant way. For the old covenant was replaced by the new covenant. You know how it is now. We serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the he oldness of the letter.



Yes.

Tong
R4571

Right. The Sabbath was actually the sign of the Old Covenant Ten Commandments. It had to be kept by the letter of the law.

The New Covenant commandments would be nothing without Jesus. That is why they are found in 1 John 3:23. I like to add 24 because Christians must abide in Christ, and He in them. Otherwise we do not belong to Christ.

23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

This is unbelievably wrong. Romans 6 says the wages of sin is still death, so the penalty is still there. What is different is the true meaning of Grace. It is not getting away with murder. It is the divine power of God given to us to start making us like Christ, and no longer sinning in the first place.

Romans 6:
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Look at it this way:

The Son of God became the Son of Man, so that the sons of man, may become the sons of God.

We are still sinners!
Here are some scriptures that speak of this nature that we must tame. These are all messages to Christians. The spirit wars against the flesh and vice versa. Eventually we get a handle on it, but only after many years of spiritual growth. Certainly, Drug addicts have been miraculously healed instantly, not having to go back when they received Christ. But loving our neighbor isn’t and instant fix.


For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. Gal. 5:17

But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human? 1 Cor. 3:3-4

As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 1 Pet. 1:14 ** A warning and command. Why if we could naturally live without sin? Because we still do and it takes effort.

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:9 So we do not practice sin as before, but we do occasionally fall into our old ways.

No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it. 1 Cor. 10:13 We are still tempted and tested, refined as He brings us through the fire.

“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. Matt. 18:15

Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven times?” Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. Matt. 18:21-22 If you can’t see that this verse speaks to our sins AS Christians, then none will.

Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. James 5:16 This message is to Christians, who often need temporal healing. “I’m sorry I hurt you … I’m sorry I violated our agreement … I was late … I disobeyed you … lied to you … was selfish … was insensitive, etc.”

but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9

Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Matt. 7:3

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 1 John 5:16

Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. Col. 3:1-2 We are routinely encouraged to keep our focus on Christ, spiritual things that are eternal. Why? Because we live in the world and are sometimes focused too much on things on earth.

Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. Col. 3:5 Consider them, render them dead. Christ died 1990 years ago for future sins that we did not even make, nor were we even born yet. So yes, in our lives, in our physical dimension, Jesus, outside of time in the spiritual dimension, washed all our sins for our entire life away, not just sins prior to our conversion. We need to render our old selves dead as we will someday die. As my Pastor used to say, “We are in the already and not yet state, living in both dimensions, enjoying eternal life, but not yet fully redeemed, not having been resurrected into new eternal bodies void of the flesh.

But now you also, put them all aside: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and abusive speech from your mouth. Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, 10 and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him. Vs. 8-10 This takes an effort on our part. We slip and angry and cuss, or sin against one another.

Col. 3 goes on to say: Wives be obedient … husbands love your wives … Children be obedient … servants obey your masters … and so it goes, a life of practicing good – but we do fail sometimes don’t we?

If we were totally void of sinful actions after being born again, why would there be so many teachings that tell us to avoid such things? Wouldn’t we all naturally be perfect and Christ like? We are not. At times yes, we have our moments. People even say, “He is a saint or she is a godly women. Are all women, Proverbs 31 women? No. Mine is close, but she is not perfect.

 

[BarneyFife]

We all know that you should not steal--it's not right. And a lot of folk don't steal because they could get into a lot of trouble. But when we come to Christ, we don't want to steal out of love for our neighbor. Or we don't want to have another god before God, or take His name in vain--because we love Him. This is the new creature

The problem is, many people all over the world actually do not know it is wrong to steal, lie, forget the Sabbath, etc. This is why the written law of God is so important. The new creature is not automatically educated in the way of the Christian life.

Hosea 4:6: My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. Gal. 5:17

"Spirit" in Galatians 5:17 is actually "spirit." It is not the Holy Spirit; it is our mind that knows the law which is the context of the verses around 17. It is the sister verse to Romans 7:25.

As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance, 1 Pet. 1:14 ** A warning and command. Why if we could naturally live without sin? Because we still do and it takes effort.

You have completely twisted this verse. Here it is again.

13 Therefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and rest your hope fully upon the grace that is to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ; 14 as obedient children, not conforming yourselves to the former lusts, as in your ignorance; 15 but as He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, 16 because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”

But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, 3 for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not being merely human? 1 Cor. 3:3-4

The maturing of the fruit of the Spirit takes time. It is a process as in 2 Peter 1:5-7. The Corinthians were not where they should be in their growth. These are trespasses that they were committing against EACH OTHER. They fit the Lord's Prayer and the verse following.

14 “For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 1 John 3:9 So we do not practice sin as before, but we do occasionally fall into our old ways.

"'Practice' was added, but not in the true meaning of the verse." 1 John 3:9 is also in the chapter of willfully committing sins of lawlessness - verse 4. So what you are actually saying is like, "we do occasionally fall into our old ways of mass murder." I can't even once. Can you?

No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it. 1 Cor. 10:13 We are still tempted and tested, refined as He brings us through the fire.

You don't seem to know what sin is. Temptation is not sin. Dwelling on temptation and letting it entice you, and then committing an act of sin, is sin. We are in the world, but we are not of the world. Know who you are in Christ, IF, indeed, He abides in you.

“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother. Matt. 18:15

A born again Christian has the Holy Spirit. But we still have free will, and a lot depends on if you actually love Jesus with all your heart, or just want Him as your ticket to heaven and are just "using" Him. They don't fear God. The latter are in danger of quenching the Holy Spirit. Paul commanded, "do not quench the Spirit." They are on a slippery slope, and could become excommunicated, returning as a dog to his own vomit. They will not be in heaven. But if you can win back that Christian and he eventually falls in love with God to the point of a forever kind of love, they will keep His commandments and abide in Christ, and Christ in him.

Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. James 5:16 This message is to Christians, who often need temporal healing. “I’m sorry I hurt you … I’m sorry I violated our agreement … I was late … I disobeyed you … lied to you … was selfish … was insensitive, etc.”

Those are immature fruit, and called trespasses that I've already commented on. Trespasses are sins NOT unto death. They are what Jesus is out Advocate for as we forgive each other to bring back reconciliation and unity, and what is described in 1 John 1:7.

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9

Verse 8 is mankind before coming to Jesus, and was what Gnostics said. Verse 9 is becoming a Christian.

If written in the Greek form of writing, which this is not. It would be as some translators correctly separate:

5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.

It was actually written in the Hebrew Semitic style of writing which is called contrasts of content. This is why verse 10 seems to be just hanging out there after verse 9, because verse 9 would also be needed to cleanse verse 10.

5 - God is LIGHT
6 - Walk in DARKNESS
7 - Walk in LIGHT
8 - DARKNESS - non Christian saying they have no sin
9 - LIGHT - how to become a Christian
10 - DARKNESS - same as 8.

If anyone sees his brother committing a sin not leading to death, he shall ask and God will for him give life to those who commit sin not leading to death. There is a sin leading to death; I do not say that he should make request for this. 1 John 5:16

It should be quoted with verse 17.

16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death.

Two types of sin.
Sin leading to death is described and what Jesus took away:
1 John 3:4-5
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

Sins not leading to death are the trespasses of Matthew 6:14-15; Leviticus 5:15

I think if you understand what I've previously taught above, it pretty much covers the rest of your post too.


Ron, is there a sin you love? Is that why you are advocating for the opposite of what Jesus taught?

 

[marks]

Ron, is there a sin you love? Is that why you are advocating for the opposite of what Jesus taught?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Spirit" in Galatians 5:17 is actually "spirit." It is not the Holy Spirit; it is our mind that knows the law which is the context of the verses around 17. It is the sister verse to Romans 7:25.

Yes, I take it that is is my flesh warring againsy my spirit. So you do acknowledge that you still have and contend with your flesh?
You can also read that our flesh wars against the Holy Spirit, since while being in Christ and walking in the Spirit, we are of one mind,? and purpose.

>>My whole objection to your posts was that you implied that you did not sin since you were saved. I gave you many verses that cleary tells us otherwise.

You don't seem to know what sin is. Temptation is not sin.

I know what sin is. How absurd to make a statement like that. Your lack of humility for implying you are above and beyond the state of ever succumbing to temptation and sinning is your deception. As scripture says: If you say you have no sin the truth is not in you.
Let's say that differently with the same meaning: If the truth is in you, you admit you have sin and are a sinner. Same thing.

The maturing of the fruit of the Spirit takes time. It is a process as in 2 Peter 1:5-7.

Well, we finally agree. So you didn't become Mother Teresa over night? Still working on it? Your love is not quite perfected yet?

So what you are actually saying is like, "we do occasionally fall into our old ways of mass murder." I can't even once. Can you?

Another absurd implication. I never committed murder. No, old habits are your old ways. If you were selfish and greedy, maybe you'd slip back into that. If you just were not in the mindset of looking for people to help and were more concerned about your own life, and maybe you are comfortable with that. So it takes years to learn and practice to be more loving and more concerned for others. It is all about loving others as yourself and loving and obeying God. Not all Christians are totally unselfish. If we were all loving and pure at heart, the world would see it. But they see Priests molesting children, Pastors getting rich and commiting adultery, they see hypocrites who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They see us sinning just like they do. There are good, pure at heart, loving, unselfish Christians who just get up every morning to serve. Their to do list is give here, give there, help this one, etc. You might say they are gifted in that area ...Hope so, I don't have that gift, but that dies not get me off the hook. I am retired and there are times I just don't want to do anything but get up, walk my dog, eat and read. Days go by and I don't help anyone.
My neighbor does not seem to be on the top of my list. What am I doing? Confessing. I guess when one feels guilty for not doing something when they knew they could, then they are guilty. That is when the Holy Spirit grieves and then maybe convicts you.

Those are immature fruit, and called trespasses that I've already commented on. Trespasses are sins NOT unto death.

So you do admit to sin not unto death, a point I was trying to make earlier.

Verse 8 is mankind before coming to Jesus, and was what Gnostics said. Verse 9 is becoming a Christian.

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9

Christ's forgiveness covers a lifetime of our sins. It has to, we can't remove them otherwise. Why do you think Catholics go to confession? Because God told us to confess our sins to one another. I confess my sins and thank God for His forgiveness. I didn't just thank Him once.

Two types of sin.
Sin leading to death is described and what Jesus took away:
1 John 3:4-5
4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin.

Sins not leading to death are the trespasses of Matthew 6:14-15; Leviticus 5:15

A lie is still a lie. If you steal, covet, commit adultery, murder or worship yourself, your car, your job , which is idolatry, it is a sin. You can relabel sin as a trespass but it is still a sin. Catholics call a venial sin. Then they separate them from more serious sins, mortal sins. Call it what you want. If you sin or trespass once, you are not walking in the Spirit when you did it. It happens, we are not yet perfected - only spiritually.
Btw, is there a sin I love? I hate sin. I know that I do not love my enemies as I should nor do I love my neighbor as myself. I am not as obedient to those laws as I should be.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Yes, I take it that is is my flesh warring againsy my spirit. So you do acknowledge that you still have and contend with your flesh?
You can also read that our flesh wars against the Holy Spirit, since while being in Christ and walking in the Spirit, we are of one mind,? and purpose.

>>My whole objection to your posts was that you implied that you did not sin since you were saved. I gave you many verses that cleary tells us otherwise.

No, I have a new nature and have the Spirit that controls it. So I don't have to contend with my old carnal nature from before. Thank you, Jesus.

I know what sin is. How absurd to make a statement like that. Your lack of humility for implying you are above and beyond the state of ever succumbing to temptation and sinning is your deception. As scripture says: If you say you have no sin the truth is not in you.
Let's say that differently with the same meaning: If the truth is in you, you admit you have sin and are a sinner. Same thing.

See, you are misquoting a scripture. 1 John 1:8 is not about a born again Christian who became born again through obeying verse 9 and becoming cleansed of even the desire to sin. Verse 8 is a non believer who doesn't believe in sin at all. This whole book was written by John because of the invasion of the Gnostics, mentioning antichrists and 1 John 4:1-3.

And, of course you know what sin is. You know the Ten Commandments. But so did the Jews. The difference between a Jew and a Christian, besides believing in Jesus as Savior, is believing in Jesus as the Christ who takes away our sin through having His indwelling Spirit of Christ. Many in the Church still only know about Jesus and what He does for us, but haven't experienced His inner presence that provides divine power. That divine power is grace, the true meaning.

Well, we finally agree. So you didn't become Mother Teresa over night? Still working on it? Your love is not quite perfected yet?

I'm spending special time with you, Ron. That is love. Just not so friendly. More like a spanking from a parent. Unfortunately, I've got Paul's personality. LOL

Proverbs 27:
Open rebuke is better
Than love carefully concealed.

6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend,
But the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

Another absurd implication. I never committed murder. No, old habits are your old ways. If you were selfish and greedy, maybe you'd slip back into that. If you just were not in the mindset of looking for people to help and were more concerned about your own life, and maybe you are comfortable with that. So it takes years to learn and practice to be more loving and more concerned for others. It is all about loving others as yourself and loving and obeying God. Not all Christians are totally unselfish. If we were all loving and pure at heart, the world would see it. But they see Priests molesting children, Pastors getting rich and commiting adultery, they see hypocrites who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. They see us sinning just like they do. There are good, pure at heart, loving, unselfish Christians who just get up every morning to serve. Theirnto donlist isnfibe here, gibe there, help this one, etc. You might say they are gifted in that area ...Hope so, I don't have that gift, but that dies not get me off the hook. I am retired and there are times I just don't want to do anything but get up, walk my dog, eat and read. Days go by and I don't help anyone. My neighbir soea not seem to ne on the top if my list. What am I doing? Confessing. I guess when one feels guilty for not doing something when they knew they could, then they are guilty. That is when the Holy Spirit grieves and then maybe convicts you.

At least you can walk your dog. I can't have a pet anymore because if I died in the house, my pet and I would both be skeletons before anyone found us. (All my bills are on autopay). But maybe the postman would say something to someone. Though they haven't yet, and I only venture out to the end of the driveway about once a week. Or ask someone passing to bring it to me.

But what I do have is the gift of Bible scholarship. Because of the Spirit I know the true meaning of the Scriptures, and even at my age, I'm still receiving new revelation I didn't know before, and you all get to hear what He gives me. These forums are my pulpit. I know more than all those who studied Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic because that is academics and what @marks enjoys to his credit, but I have the God of the Universe. It is nothing of myself, but the Spirit keeps me sharing what He gives me.

May run out of room. Will answer the rest. To be continued...

 

[marks]

demics and what @marks enjoys to his credit, but I have the God of the Universe.

Innuendo? Wanted to make sure I didn't miss it?

Much love!