Tongues

[amadeus]

In a nutshell, my life was tragic until I met my Father at the Cambridge Vineyard in July of '94. Some amazing things happened after that. I went from being a lonely, frustrated and depressed musician to leading the Sunday-morning worship team at the local Vineyard plant that I was a part of.
After 3 years, I left because, as it turned out, of my own wounded soul. I was a deeply-wounded person. I've learned to walk in repentance and to forgive, bless, and love. Not that I'm perfect.
I was rejected in the womb, my life didn't go well. During March, 2000, I ended up at Jacob's Well Ministries' "Five Days Of Healing" retreat where the Lord met me powerfully.
The main seminar they teach is Dr. Bruce Thompson's, "The Divine Plumbline." Other teaching included Floyd McClung and Derek Prince. I received the gift of tongues while there.
Afterwards, He left me with this verse: "He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8 - He is gentle and yet severe.
I believe the Lord led me to start this thread; I can always hide under my bed! Lol

Under the bed, but perhaps that could be instead of the closet while praying to your Father:

"But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." Matt 6:6

 

[Truman]

Lol! Give God the glory!

 

[Grailhunter]

I hear you loud and clear, my brother!

The very first assembly we attended as non-Catholics pressured us on the tongues as well. My wife started speaking tongues almost immediately. For me with some obstacles between me and God it was not until 6 weeks later. There were a couple of good brothers there, but I could not now include the pastor as one of them.

During those first 6 weeks we attended services regularly, the two of us and our two little toddlers. Our pastor would say to me frequently in front of the whole congregation that if I did not receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues, I was going to hell and burn in pain forever. I had never been anything but Catholic and had never before even owned a Bible, much less read one. I did not understand the man and he would not answer my questions, but I presumed it needed to be that way. I was very wrong!

I was reading the Bible furiously to get it all in and at every service I sought the Lord begging for the Holy Ghost.

We learned a whole lot in that place but much of it did not fall into place and become understandable until years later. To this day I still often must bite my tongue when thinking or speaking about that man, we called pastor for about 5 years.

I completely understand. It is a problem with some Holy Ghost churches. For me, more so in the past than the present.
The churches I go to understand that tongues and prophecy are a gift for the person.
But also being there is a gift for everyone.
One of these days I might be blessed with the gift but until then I very much enjoy being in the presence of the Holy Spirit and witnessing the movement of the Spirit.

 

[Truman]

God, where I go, there You are! Hallelujah!

 

[amadeus]

I completely understand. It is a problem with some Holy Ghost churches. For me, more so in the past than the present.
The churches I go to understand that tongues and prophecy are a gift for the person.
But also being there is a gift for everyone.
One of these days I might be blessed with the gift but until then I very much enjoy being in the presence of the Holy Spirit and witnessing the movement of the Spirit.

Though study and experience and as I learned to be led by the Holy Spirit, I changed on a number of things in my beliefs and in my way of walking with God over the long years.

Attendance at that first church I described was from 1976 until sometime in 1981. I have attended some much better places since then, but I have never found a place that was always allowing the Holy Spirit to lead the service. Even men with the best of intentions, would too often decide on their own in effect that God needed their help. God does not need any man's help even though He certainly often uses men to accomplish His purposes.

Give God the glory!

 

[amadeus]

God, where I go, there You are! Hallelujah!

"Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there." Psalm 139:7-8

 

[Grailhunter]

but I have never found a place that was always allowing the Holy Spirit to lead the service.

Hopefully I am not misunderstanding you.
Are you saying that you have never been in a church that after praising the Lord and singing hymns to the Lord....that they would pause and give the Holy Spirit time to move.

Even during the sermon, if someone starts speaking in tongues the pastor will stop and wait.

You'll have people saying Praise the Lord as the Spirit moves but other than that no one interrupts the tongues or the prophecy.

 

[amadeus]

Hopefully I am not misunderstanding you.
Are you saying that you have never been in a church that after praising the Lord and singing hymns to the Lord....that they would pause and give the Holy Spirit time to move.

Even during the sermon, if someone starts speaking in tongues the pastor will stop and wait.

You'll have people saying Praise the Lord as the Spirit moves but other than that no one interrupts the tongues or the prophecy.

You misunderstand, I believe, what I meant.

I have been in a single service in places which I believed were always led by the Spirit... but that rarely happened in all of the services held in that place.

The flaws of people and/or the ways of people quenching the Spirit have shown their ugly faces just about everywhere sometime. Is there anyplace where no one ever quenches the Spirit effectively moving the service away from where God wanted to lead?

Too many places teach people to quench the Spirit! They believe in church order, but sometimes that order interferes with God and His order.

God is willing for everyone to always be in the Spirit and led by the Spirit. Unfortunately there are too often people present whose minds and heart are involved in other activities.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I think the subject of tongues has, is, and will continue to be, one of personal interpretation.
I'm not saying that's how it should be, just how it is.
I think, at this point, agreeing to disagree without being disagreeable fulfills the love commandment.
Unless the involved people enjoy arguing...then I say, "Knock yourselves out!" Sigh.

Maybe so. But the Bible is not subject to personal interpretation. It means what the author intended it to mean.

 

[Grailhunter]

You misunderstand, I believe, what I meant.

I have been in a single service in places which I believed were always led by the Spirit... but that rarely happened in all of the services held in that place.

The flaws of people and/or the ways of people quenching the Spirit have shown their ugly faces just about everywhere sometime. Is there anyplace where no one ever quenches the Spirit effectively moving the service away from where God wanted to lead?

Too many places teach people to quench the Spirit! They believe in church order, but sometimes that order interferes with God and His order.

God is willing for everyone to always be in the Spirit and led by the Spirit. Unfortunately there are too often people present whose minds and heart are involved in other activities.

Most of the Holy Ghost churches I have been at are in Missouri and Arkansas and up and down the eastern seaboard.
If you choose to attend one of these you know what is coming. How one of these attendees would quench the Spirit....I don't know and I have never seen it.

 

[Truman]

Maybe so. But the Bible is not subject to personal interpretation. It means what the author intended it to mean.

What's your point?

 

[amadeus]

Most of the Holy Ghost churches I have been at are in Missouri and Arkansas and up and down the eastern seaboard.
If you choose to attend one of these you know what is coming. How one of these attendees would quench the Spirit....I don't know and I have never seen it.

Well I have been in Holy Ghost meetings in California, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas as well as a few in Kentucky.

I used to love to be in one of the good old "gully washer" services. Sometimes, however, someone would be pushing for such a service when it was not, I believe, what God wanted.

When I was a lot younger I got into trouble for eating too much of His flesh without drinking a balanced amount of His blood. Sometimes too many gully washer services lead people to be unbalanced in the opposite direction.

 

[Curtis]

This is not tongues at all. Tongues is an articulate language in the Spirit where a person, in their private prayer time, speaks directly to God mysteries in the Spirit.

That’s just one of the diversities of tongues.

There’s a tongue spoken aloud in church as a message, and gets interpreted.

1Co 14:26 How is it then, brethren? when ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

1Co 14:27 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.

1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

1Co 14:12 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.

1Co 14:13 Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.

 

[Truman]

It is my experience, and understanding, that there are different types of tongues. I use one during prayer, another during praise, and a third during warfare.

 

[amadeus]

It is my experience, and understanding, that there are different types of tongues. I use one during prayer, another during praise, and a third during warfare.

In a personal study done many years ago, I identified three different types of tongues. There may be more. Is God limited?

 

[Pathfinder7]

'The Interpretation of Tongues'
- At the meeting..
---
This gift involves 'interpretation of the tongues' being spoken.. so that
others can understand the message the speaker receives..
- In the context of a meeting/service.
---
Did anyone have the experience..
- Giving the message/speaking in tongues or interpretation?
---
*Maybe..someone already posted/shared the experience on this thread?

 

[Grailhunter]

Well I have been in Holy Ghost meetings in California, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Texas and Arkansas as well as a few in Kentucky.

I used to love to be in one of the good old "gully washer" services. Sometimes, however, someone would be pushing for such a service when it was not, I believe, what God wanted.

When I was a lot younger I got into trouble for eating too much of His flesh without drinking a balanced amount of His blood. Sometimes too many gully washer services lead people to be unbalanced in the opposite direction.

It either is or is not. Honestly I go to different type of churches....I don't run into to many bad ones.
As far as Holy Ghost churches there are a lot of ways of tell if it right. Church service posted between 10:45 and 12:00 but you rarely get out before 12:45....and no one complains. That is one of the ways you know how the Spirit is running.

Honestly I do not know how people find so many bad churches... So many people on the forum that do not like churches and have their own horror stories of churches. I have run into funny churches....In Virginia Beach I went to a Presbyterian that was wanting to buy land next door and was asking every one to right a check for 700 dollars. Should have known there were Rolls Royces and Jaguars, and BMWs in the parking lot.

The Cowboy Churches around here welcome the Holy Spirit....and you have that western atmosphere, hats and cowboy boots and ladies western wear and horses out front. The one down south they have a barn....square dances and broom dances.

 

[Paul Christensen]

I wholeheartedly disagree. First, you made an argument from your own experience, claiming to have hung around Pentecostals for 55 years. So what? All this means is that you have been wrong for 55 years.

Second, you attacked me personally, twice, not only did you assume that I wasn't thinking for myself, you encouraged me to stop listening to my teachers. Only now have you decided to talk about the passage. Whether you like it or not, telling me that I am believing in lies, is an ad hominem (to the man) argument. You said that I can't understand the passage because I hadn't studied it myself; and I can't understand the passage because I am being misled by false teachers; and I can't understand the passage because I don't have experience in such things. Amazingly all three of your assumptions are wrong.

By the way, I am NOT second guessing what Paul said. My understanding of his argument in chapter 14 is based what he said in chapter 7. Maybe you didn't notice what he said there or what it might indicate with regard to his approach?

I set out what Paul actually said about tongues in 1 Corinthians 14. If you don't believe what Paul actually said as he was inspired by the Holy Spirit, there is nothing more to be said. The Scripture says that if someone wants to be ignorant, let them remain ignorant.

Actually, what knocks the stuffing out of your argument against modern tongues is what happened to two people in the very church where I was a deacon during the late 1970s. One person was praying in tongues during a prayer meeting and his language turned out to be a Ghanaian rural village dialect in which he was talking about the wonderful works of God. The Ghanaian visitor was excited because he knew that the speak could never have known that language. Another person was praying quietly in tongues during a church service, and the New Zealand Maori lady sitting beside him told him that he was praying in the Maori language and God was speaking encouraging things to her through it. That person was New Zealand European and knew no Maori language. These are times where God steps in and shows that anti-tongues teaching is nothing but foolishness.

Don't tell me that these are unsubstantiated stories, because the first person was a close friend and the event was witnessed by more than 20 people in that prayer meeting, and the second person was me and the lady was a Mrs Samuels whom I had known for a number of years.

 

[amadeus]

It either is or is not. Honestly I go to different type of churches....I don't run into to many bad ones.
As far as Holy Ghost churches there are a lot of ways of tell if it right. Church service posted between 10:45 and 12:00 but you rarely get out before 12:45....and no one complains. That is one of the ways you know how the Spirit is running.

Honestly I do not know how people find so many bad churches... So many people on the forum that do not like churches and have their own horror stories of churches. I have run into funny churches....In Virginia Beach I went to a Presbyterian that was wanting to buy land next door and was asking every one to right a check for 700 dollars. Should have known there were Rolls Royces and Jaguars, and BMWs in the parking lot.

The Cowboy Churches around here welcome the Holy Spirit....and you have that western atmosphere, hats and cowboy boots and ladies western wear and horses out front. The one down south they have a barn....square dances and broom dances.

Oh, I don't run into many I would name as 'bad' churches either... even though some are engaged in what may appear to me as bad practices.

I learned long ago to look to the individuals and to give each one the benefit of a doubt presuming he is sincere if he claims to really love God until I am given reason to believe otherwise.

Too many things in a church like the ones you named might sway me to not attend such a place regularly or at all...but that is not an absolute condemnation. Rather it would simply be a reason to avoid an apparently bad situation. How many righteous men in Sodom were needed to avoid destruction? 10! That is written, but I have no writing of the number needed for today's churches or nations or societies.

 

[CadyandZoe]

What's your point?

Consider whether you would be willing to change your mind about a particular doctrine if you became convinced that you inadvertently affirmed a particular interpretation of a passage that was untrue.