David in NJ
Well-Known Member
Well said = which is the purpose of all religions = salvation through works
"Whoever works on the Sabbath Rest of God will be put to death"
Luke 1:43
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Well said = which is the purpose of all religions = salvation through works
"Whoever works on the Sabbath Rest of God will be put to death"
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
The inquiry below comes along every now and then.
FAQ: At Matt 16:18, Jesus said: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will
build my church; and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against
it." What is the meaning of that verse?
A: Basically it's saying that should one of Jesus' sheep slip through a crack and
end up in the wrong place, they will be able to stroll right on out of there like
a tourist in Paris; led to safety by the good shepherd.
• John 10:27 . . My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
We should emphasize that if the Roman Catholic Church were the "my
church" that Christ spoke of in Matt 16:18, then no Catholic-- not one --
would end up in Hell; but I'm pretty sure that Rome expects to lose a
number of its followers to eternal suffering; which reminds me of a line from
the movie AVATAR spoken by Colonel Miles Quaritch, played by Stephen
Lang, that goes like this:
"It is my job to keep you alive. I will not succeed . . not with all of you."
But Jesus will succeed with all of his sheep because his own personal standing
in Heaven depends upon it.
• John 10:27-29 . . My sheep . . . my Father gave them to me
• John 6:39 . .This is the will of the One who sent me, that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.
• John 8:29 . . I always do what is pleasing to Him.
Were Jesus to lose even one head of the sheep that his Father gave him,
just one, then it would be wrong of Jesus to say he "always" pleases his
Father. He'd have to tone it down and say "almost always" viz: most of the
time, but not all the time.
When people say that it's possible for Jesus to lose some of the sheep that
his Father gave him; they are actually casting a vote of no-confidence in the
reliability of his faithfulness to God's will.
_
The inquiry below comes along every now and then.
FAQ: At Matt 16:18, Jesus said: "You are Peter, and upon this rock I will
build my church; and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against
it." What is the meaning of that verse?
A: Basically it's saying that should one of Jesus' sheep slip through a crack and
end up in the wrong place, they will be able to stroll right on out of there like
a tourist in Paris; led to safety by the good shepherd.
• John 10:27 . . My sheep hear my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
We should emphasize that if the Roman Catholic Church were the "my
church" that Christ spoke of in Matt 16:18, then no Catholic-- not one --
would end up in Hell; but I'm pretty sure that Rome expects to lose a
number of its followers to eternal suffering; which reminds me of a line from
the movie AVATAR spoken by Colonel Miles Quaritch, played by Stephen
Lang, that goes like this:
"It is my job to keep you alive. I will not succeed . . not with all of you."
But Jesus will succeed with all of his sheep because his own personal standing
in Heaven depends upon it.
• John 10:27-29 . . My sheep . . . my Father gave them to me
• John 6:39 . .This is the will of the One who sent me, that I should not lose
anything of what He gave me.
• John 8:29 . . I always do what is pleasing to Him.
Were Jesus to lose even one head of the sheep that his Father gave him,
just one, then it would be wrong of Jesus to say he "always" pleases his
Father. He'd have to tone it down and say "almost always" viz: most of the
time, but not all the time.
When people say that it's possible for Jesus to lose some of the sheep that
his Father gave him; they are actually casting a vote of no-confidence in the
reliability of his faithfulness to God's will.
_
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Jesus is telling the Eleven that he will be with them unto the end of the age. When is the end of the age? Answer: Matthew 24:14. In this context, Jesus isn't talking about the end of the world, he is talking about the end of a Jewish age, i.e. the end of Daniel's 70 weeks. It was Paul who declared the end of the age when he announced to Israel,
Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first; since you repudiate it and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles. Acts 13:46
The day Paul turned to the Gentiles is the end of the age Matthew spoke about. Paul refers to the subsequent age as "the Times of the Gentiles." Luke 21:24
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Continuing from post No.82
• John 10:27-28 . . My sheep . . . they shall never perish, no one can take
them out of my hand.
It's oftentimes posited that the sheep can take their own selves out of
Jesus' hand.
Well; when those suggesting such a thing are able to walk on the sun
bare-footed and not get burned, I might be persuaded to think their posit
has some merit because Jesus is not just a man, he's also the supreme
being spoken of by John 1:1-3.
The Word has all the powers and forces of God's creative processes at his
disposal to keep Jesus' sheep safe and sound right where they belong: under
his care and in his sheepfold. I dare say that anybody who seriously believes
Jesus' sheep are strong enough to overpower the Word and get away, has
been deprived of adequate religious instruction. Either that or they're pretty
stupid (spiritually).
• Deut 32:39 . . See now that I-- I alone --am He, and there is no God
besides me. It is I who bring both death and life; I who inflict wounds and
heal them, and from my hand no one can deliver.
_
Continuing from post No.82
• John 10:27-28 . . My sheep . . . they shall never perish, no one can take
them out of my hand.
It's oftentimes posited that the sheep can take their own selves out of
Jesus' hand.
Well; when those suggesting such a thing are able to walk on the sun
bare-footed and not get burned, I might be persuaded to think their posit
has some merit because Jesus is not just a man, he's also the supreme
being spoken of by John 1:1-3.
The Word has all the powers and forces of God's creative processes at his
disposal to keep Jesus' sheep safe and sound right where they belong: under
his care and in his sheepfold. I dare say that anybody who seriously believes
Jesus' sheep are strong enough to overpower the Word and get away, has
been deprived of adequate religious instruction. Either that or they're pretty
stupid (spiritually).
• Deut 32:39 . . See now that I-- I alone --am He, and there is no God
besides me. It is I who bring both death and life; I who inflict wounds and
heal them, and from my hand no one can deliver.
_
KJV ha!
Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
even if said age the apostles are still to teach all nations the USA was only a nation in 1776 so there still MUST be apostles
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Just repeating the same conclusion without providing the evidence is a sign of insanity.
You have still failed to show why this passage means what you have reinterpreted it to mean:
20 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah:
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.
22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.
YOu need to show How Eliakim is sympoblic for Peter more than just saying so.
Why the Key to the house of david= the kingdom and not Davids house which was standing
and why the keys of Davids house= the keys of the kingdom.
Just cvomiting your reinterpretations without showing why they need to be reinterpreted is juvenile.
Why just Peter and where were the others? I can give you possibilities but that is all.
Maybe at that time in Capernaum just Jesus and Peter were walking together.
The tax collectors recognized Peter so this is a specific dialogue about taxes and not who is the head of the church.
YOu need to give evidence for you reinterpreting Gods Word.
Lk 1:32-33 Jesus is king
Peter is prime minister holding the keys of the kingdom Matt 16:18-19
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Too bad Peter had nothing to do with establishing the Catholic Church in the 11th century.
One church jn 10:16
Founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18-19
Pillar and ground of truth 1 Tim 3:15
an Attack on Mary and the saints, or the authority of the apostles or the church or rejection of such doctrines is and attack on God and on Christ!
Acts 9:4 Eph 5:32
Acts 9:4 Eph 5:32
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
LOL. I'll type this slowly so you might understand. This one church you speak of, the church of Peter, has nothing to do with the Catholic Church as established in the 11th century.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
In your opinion, but the word of God says your Roman masters lie!
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Salvation begins with the Bible, and the Bible leads to hearing, and hearing
leads to faith, and faith leads to prayer, and all that leads to sealing by the
Holy Spirit. (Rom 10:6-17 and Eph 1:12-14)
The Holy Spirit's seal is interesting. The Greek word for it is arrhabon (ar
hrab-ohn') which refers to a pledge; viz: part of the purchase-price, or
property, given in advance as security for the rest.
When we bought our home, I had to submit, along with the escrow papers,
an amount of money called a good-faith deposit. In the event that my wife
and I backed out of the deal, for any reason at all; we would've forfeited the
deposit. That's no doubt an incentive to make sure people mean business
about buying a home.
Eph 1:13-14 explains a difficult spiritual truth by putting it into a context
easy to understand by anyone familiar with the process of buying a home.
Another context, also easy to understand, is located in the 38th chapter of
Genesis.
Long story short, Judah left his staff and signet with Tamar as a pledge that
he would pay her with a young goat as compensation for her favors (Gen
38:18). The Hebrew word for Judah's pledge is 'arabown (ar-aw-bone')
which is equivalent to the Greek word arrhabon.
Well; Judah was unable to make good on his promise because Tamar took a
powder. So his response was:
"Let her keep what she has or we will become a disgrace." (Gen 38:23)
You bet your bippy they would've been a disgrace because until such a time
as Judah paid Tamar what he agreed; she had a legitimate right to keep his
staff and his signet because that's the way an 'arabown works.
Bottom line is: at this point in the plan of salvation, should God not spare a
believer's soul from the sum of all fears; then He has to forfeit the Holy
Spirit. In other words: should a believer end up in Hell, they get to keep the
Holy Spirit and take Him down there with them because that's the way an
arrhabon works.
Well; of course God doesn't renege on His agreements because He's a man
of integrity, so to speak. The onboard possession of the Holy Spirit is God's
guarantee that He can be counted upon to follow thru with the remainder of
His plan of salvation, i.e. resurrection to a better life.
_
Salvation begins with the Bible, and the Bible leads to hearing, and hearing
leads to faith, and faith leads to prayer, and all that leads to sealing by the
Holy Spirit. (Rom 10:6-17 and Eph 1:12-14)
The Holy Spirit's seal is interesting. The Greek word for it is arrhabon (ar
hrab-ohn') which refers to a pledge; viz: part of the purchase-price, or
property, given in advance as security for the rest.
When we bought our home, I had to submit, along with the escrow papers,
an amount of money called a good-faith deposit. In the event that my wife
and I backed out of the deal, for any reason at all; we would've forfeited the
deposit. That's no doubt an incentive to make sure people mean business
about buying a home.
Eph 1:13-14 explains a difficult spiritual truth by putting it into a context
easy to understand by anyone familiar with the process of buying a home.
Another context, also easy to understand, is located in the 38th chapter of
Genesis.
Long story short, Judah left his staff and signet with Tamar as a pledge that
he would pay her with a young goat as compensation for her favors (Gen
38:18). The Hebrew word for Judah's pledge is 'arabown (ar-aw-bone')
which is equivalent to the Greek word arrhabon.
Well; Judah was unable to make good on his promise because Tamar took a
powder. So his response was:
"Let her keep what she has or we will become a disgrace." (Gen 38:23)
You bet your bippy they would've been a disgrace because until such a time
as Judah paid Tamar what he agreed; she had a legitimate right to keep his
staff and his signet because that's the way an 'arabown works.
Bottom line is: at this point in the plan of salvation, should God not spare a
believer's soul from the sum of all fears; then He has to forfeit the Holy
Spirit. In other words: should a believer end up in Hell, they get to keep the
Holy Spirit and take Him down there with them because that's the way an
arrhabon works.
Well; of course God doesn't renege on His agreements because He's a man
of integrity, so to speak. The onboard possession of the Holy Spirit is God's
guarantee that He can be counted upon to follow thru with the remainder of
His plan of salvation, i.e. resurrection to a better life.
_
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Good point, why should we believe your Romanist reinterpretations of the bible??
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Men's traditions are fine - provided they do not oppose the word of God.
? I'm afraid you are connecting to things that are unrelated. You should believe the word of God, which states Jesus is our only mediator to God. This means it is a man-made, RCC invention that we need mediator to our mediator.
Regarding the RCC beginning in the 11th century; you should believe me because the Great Schism was over a unilateral change to doctrine made with consent of 5 equal bishops by the RCC. The claims of supremacy - and acting on such claims - began then.
Webers_Home
Well-Known Member
.
Every so often I get asked how I know that my religion is right. My answer
is: I don't know if it's right. Then of course they want to know how it is that I
believe in my religion when I don't know whether it's right.
That's a fair inquiry. Most of the people who ask me those kinds of questions
are genuine; they're not trying to trip me up and make a fool out of me.
They are honestly curious. So I tell them, in so many words, that though I
don't know if my religion is right, my intuition tells me it is; in other words: I
cannot shake the conviction that the religion I believe in is right.
Why does anybody believe what they believe? Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu,
Bahá'í, Hare Krishna, Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Catholic, Baptist,
Judaism, Voodoo, Wiccan, Jain, Druze, Native American, etc, etc, etc. The
answer? Because it grips their heart-- the core of their being --which is very
different than persuading someone with logic and reasoning.
When folks are persuaded to buy into a religion by means of logic and
reasoning, they can be just as easily persuaded to renounce it by logic and
reasoning. But someone whose heart is gripped by their religion is not so
easily removed regardless of how strong, how sensible, how convincing, nor
how logical the opposition's argument.
Take for example Jehovah's Witnesses. Very little success is to be had by
hammering their missionaries in a debate because even if you best them
scripture for scripture, they will very likely remain resolute and not give up
on the Watchtower Society. Their heart's unflinching premise is that the
Society is right even when it appears to be totally wrong. They are
thoroughly convinced that the Society is the voice of God, while your voice
contains little more inspiration than that of a squeaky little gerbil; and it's
very difficult, if not nigh unto impossible, to convince them otherwise.
_
Every so often I get asked how I know that my religion is right. My answer
is: I don't know if it's right. Then of course they want to know how it is that I
believe in my religion when I don't know whether it's right.
That's a fair inquiry. Most of the people who ask me those kinds of questions
are genuine; they're not trying to trip me up and make a fool out of me.
They are honestly curious. So I tell them, in so many words, that though I
don't know if my religion is right, my intuition tells me it is; in other words: I
cannot shake the conviction that the religion I believe in is right.
Why does anybody believe what they believe? Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu,
Bahá'í, Hare Krishna, Jehovah's Witness, Mormon, Catholic, Baptist,
Judaism, Voodoo, Wiccan, Jain, Druze, Native American, etc, etc, etc. The
answer? Because it grips their heart-- the core of their being --which is very
different than persuading someone with logic and reasoning.
When folks are persuaded to buy into a religion by means of logic and
reasoning, they can be just as easily persuaded to renounce it by logic and
reasoning. But someone whose heart is gripped by their religion is not so
easily removed regardless of how strong, how sensible, how convincing, nor
how logical the opposition's argument.
Take for example Jehovah's Witnesses. Very little success is to be had by
hammering their missionaries in a debate because even if you best them
scripture for scripture, they will very likely remain resolute and not give up
on the Watchtower Society. Their heart's unflinching premise is that the
Society is right even when it appears to be totally wrong. They are
thoroughly convinced that the Society is the voice of God, while your voice
contains little more inspiration than that of a squeaky little gerbil; and it's
very difficult, if not nigh unto impossible, to convince them otherwise.
_
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