One of the Best Explanations I've seen on Satan's sin.

[post]

• John 8:24: ean gar me pistuesete hoti ego eimi
• John 8:28: tote gnosesthe hoti ego eimi
• John 8:58: prin Abraam genethai ego eimi
• John 13:19: hina pisteusete hotan genetai ego eimi
• John 18:5: legei autois Ego eimi
• John 18:6: hos oun eipen autois Ego eimi
• John 18:8: eipon humin hoti ego eimi

is He speaking in Greek or is He speaking in Aramaic or Hebrew?
if He is speaking Hebrew what did He actually say instead of Ego Eimi?
Ani Hu? ((Isaiah 41:4, 43:10, 43:25, 45:18, 46:4, 51:12 and 52:6)) all of these in Septuagint are rendered "Ego Eimi" in Greek, exactly like Exodus 3:14 is also -- and in Isaiah 'Ani Hu' in Hebrew is well know to be a shortened form of I AM THAT I AM.
so the Jews recognize that Ego Eimi is a direct reference to the name of God, especially when it's used without an object ((tho in Isaiah it is used both with and without)) -- but especially when it is used in the 'absolute sense' as John records 7 times in his gospel ((hmm, seven, coincidence eh??)), it is without doubt reference to deity.
the early church all knew this --

“…the whole unhappiness of the Jews was not that they had sin, but to die in sins…In these words, ‘Except ye believe that I am,’ Jesus meant nothing short of this, ‘Except ye believe that I am God, ye shall die in your sins.’ It is well for us, thank God, that He said except ye believe, and not except ye understand.”
- Augustine speaking of John 8:24
​

and knew that it is something wonderful, a great mystery defying human understanding.
what now though, with so many false teachers denying Him?

 

[post]

Gobbledygook. In context, Jesus is answering a question about his age.

no, this is the context:

The Pharisees therefore said to Him, “You bear witness of Yourself; Your witness is not true.”
(John 8:13)​

everything that follows down to v. 59 is in that context, answering that specific objection.
Jesus is telling them why His testimony is true even if it isn't corroborated by anyone else -- and they took up stones to try to kill Him because of His answer.
His answer is that He is God; He is equivalently God. He is the very Word of God Himself having become flesh, the fullness of God dwelling bodily.
before Abraham, HE IS GOD. they -- and they understood the context and the implication far better than you do -- they immediately tried to put Him to death for what He said.
you need an explanation for that response.
we have one.


you are clearly trying to change the tense because you cannot bear to hear what He is actually saying.
He says I AM I AM in present tense. you wish it was past. that is the gobbledygook here. as Marks said, if you have any proficiency in searching out the languages, you know full well exactly what your fallacy is. Ego Eimi is in present progressive tense, not past.
but you don't even need any of that. all you need to do is read the book. John 8:13 is the context. they want to kill Him for what He answers. He is saying far, far more than 'I existed a long time ago'

He is answering a question about why He is exempt from the requirement that His testimony be corroborated by two or three witnesses. the answer is because He is I AM, and just like those pharisees, you are enraged by it.

 

[Aunty Jane]

• John 8:24: ean gar me pistuesete hoti Ego Eimi
• John 8:28: tote gnosesthe hoti Ego Eimi
• John 8:58: prin Abraam genethai Ego Eimi
• John 13:19: hina pisteusete hotan genetai Ego Eimi
• John 18:5: legei autois Ego Eimi
• John 18:6: hos oun eipen autois Ego Eimi
• John 18:8: eipon humin hoti Ego Eimi

Are you serious? This is a joke....right?

 

[post]

Are you serious? This is a joke....right?

it is exactly what you asked for and denied existed.
look at the Greek. there is no direct object to Ego Eimi in any of those.

i mean you can be dishonest if you want and try to change these, corrupting the Word
but the truth stands.

 

[post]

Show me one single passage where Jesus said "I am" without stating what he was.....
John 6:48-51...
"I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50 This is the bread that comes down out of heaven, so that anyone may eat from it and not die. 51 I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats from this bread, he will live forever; and the bread which I will give for the life of the world also is My flesh.” (NASB)

John 13:34...
" I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

John 7:28-29...
" Then Jesus cried out in the temple, teaching and saying, “You both know Me and you know where I am from; and I have not come of Myself, but He who sent Me is true, whom you do not know. 29 I do know Him, because I am from Him, and He sent Me.”

i gave you 7 passages.

John 6:48-51 are Ego Eimi - and they are very unique. there are 7 of these in John, each presenting Himself as uniquely divine. The Door. The Way. The Life. The Resurrection. The Truth. The Vine. The Bread. The Good Shepherd. these aren't the claims of an angel or a mere man.
John 7:28-29 is just Eimi ((remember both Ego & Eimi mean 'I am' literally, so it's not normal speech for someone to put them both together))
John 13:34 doesn't have Ego or Eimi in it.

we're not talking about English. we're talking about what Christ said in the original language, whether He spoke in Greek, the significance of Ego Eimi in exactly that culture given the Septuagint's use of it, or whether He actually spoke in Hebrew and when His words were translated to Greek by those who wrote down the gospel for us, they did exactly what the 70 did and put I AM ((Ani Hu, common in Isaiah as a shortened form of I AM THAT I AM from Exodus 3)) into Greek as Ego Eimi.

 

[Aunty Jane]

i gave you 7 passages.

John 6:48-51 are Ego Eimi - and they are very unique. there are 7 of these in John, each presenting Himself as uniquely divine. The Door. The Way. The Life. The Resurrection. The Truth. The Vine. The Bread. The Good Shepherd. these aren't the claims of an angel or a mere man.
John 7:28-29 is just Eimi ((remember both Ego & Eimi mean 'I am' literally, so it's not normal speech for someone to put them both together))
John 13:34 doesn't have Ego or Eimi in it.

we're not talking about English. we're talking about what Christ said in the original language, whether He spoke in Greek, the significance of Ego Eimi in exactly that culture given the Septuagint's use of it, or whether He actually spoke in Hebrew and when His words were translated to Greek by those who wrote down the gospel for us, they did exactly what the 70 did and put I AM ((Ani Hu, common in Isaiah as a shortened form of I AM THAT I AM from Exodus 3)) into Greek as Ego Eimi.

Is that what I asked....go back and read it again...or did it go ‘whoosh right over your head’?....

 

[post]

Is that what I asked....go back and read it again...or did it go ‘whoosh right over your head’?....

It is exactly what you asked for.


John 8:24: ean gar me pistuesete hoti Ego Eimi
John 8:28: tote gnosesthe hoti Ego Eimi
John 8:58: prin Abraam genethai Ego Eimi
John 13:19: hina pisteusete hotan genetai Ego Eimi
John 18:5: legei autois Ego Eimi
John 18:6: hos oun eipen autois Ego Eimi
John 18:8: eipon humin hoti Ego Eimi

Show me one single passage where Jesus said "I am" without stating what he was.....

I gave you not one but 7 examples in John where our Lord said Ego Eime with no direct object.

How about you start addressing the point?

 

[marks]

How many times did Jesus say "I am" without qualifying what he said?
Before Abraham was "I am"......I am what?

That's the point.

You say now, straight out, someone changed the Bible, and you just know that it's not right! You can likely guess which I'm going to stick to. Especially since this is just one of many instances just like it, where if you just read it for what it says, there's no other conclusion to draw.

And when you see the clarity that's actually there, well, truth in the Bible is plain when you see it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Gobbledygook. In context, Jesus is answering a question about his age. You are twisting his words to say what you want them to say.

That is only true if you change it to your liking, which, it turns out, is exactly what you've done. But if you read it as written . . . well, we know the rest.

Much love!

 

[Aunty Jane]

How about you start addressing the point?

It’s like trying to explain colour to one born blind....

No point in continuing with you.....you can believe whatever you wish....that is no concern of mine.

“I AM” was never the meaning of God’ name to begin with. “I WILL BE” is the more correct rendering, but you can continue to see it as you want to.
Stating “I WILL BE” is not the same as saying “I AM” in anyone’s definition.....but carry on.....

 

[marks]

It’s like trying to explain colour to one born blind....

No point in continuing with you.....you can believe whatever you wish....that is no concern of mine.

This convo has hit the skids . . .

 

[Brakelite]

If he was God, then he was immortal...and immortals cannot be put to death

He was, is, the Son of God. Being the Son and having come forth from the Father, Jesus therefore inherited by nature the attributes of deity. They became innate, but he also had the authority to lay down His life because it was His own. Angels do not have that authority, because their life belongs to God. Jesus laid aside his divine attributes without ceasing to be deity... Thus He could die.

 

[post]

This convo has hit the skids . . .

yes; she prefers modern liberal Judaism to the Truth. if she at least argued from the Talmud she might be reasoned with.

 

[Aunty Jane]

This convo has hit the skids . . .

There comes a time to 'shake the dust off'...ya know....

We will all find out in the not too distant future if we have the truth, or a delusion that God has allowed us to keep. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)

 

[Aunty Jane]

yes; she prefers modern liberal Judaism to the Truth. if she at least argued from the Talmud she might be reasoned with.

I might remind you that Jesus was Jewish....but not approving of the Jewish system of worship. Most of the Jews thought he was a fake....I wonder why?

I might also mention that the Jewish Talmud is IMO the equivalent to the Catholic Catechism. Not really a useful tool in ascertaining the truth of scripture except through a very narrow lens.

But hey...to each his own. What we accept as truth tells God who we really are. Isn't free will a wonderful thing?

 

[Pythagorean12]

I might remind you that Jesus was Jewish....but not approving of the Jewish system of worship. Most of the Jews thought he was a fake....I wonder why?

I might also mention that the Jewish Talmud is IMO the equivalent to the Catholic Catechism. Not really a useful tool in ascertaining the truth of scripture except through a very narrow lens.

But hey...to each his own. What we accept as truth tells God who we really are. Isn't free will a wonderful thing?

If God knew us before the womb, he isn't learning anything about us by our behavior. He already knows who we are.
What we think is free will is just our placing our feet on the path in the footprints God predetermined us to walk.
Omniscience guarantees no surprises for God.
Proverbs 16:9

 

[Aunty Jane]

If God knew us before the womb, he isn't learning anything about us by our behavior. He already knows who we are.
What we think is free will is just our placing our feet on the path in the footprints God predetermined us to walk.
Omniscience guarantees no surprises for God.
Proverbs 16:9

What makes you think that God knew us before we existed? I do not see how predestination works....?
Does God just put people on the earth whom he knows are going to fail, just so that he can punish them?

Doesn't that make him a bit of a monster?

Proverbs 16:9...
"A man may plot out his course in his heart,
But it is Jehovah who directs his steps."
If this is speaking about a believer (and all OT scripture is directed to Israel) then all that tells us is that in spite of what "a man" plans to do, it is Jehovah who directs his steps.....think about it. For a Jew, having God direct his steps was the way to stay in his favor. No one knew the consequences of not doing that more than they did....

 

[post]

What makes you think that God knew us before we existed?

It's called "omniscience"

 

[post]

What makes you think that God knew us before we existed?

More specifically, @Pythagorean12 mentioned God knowing us before the womb. You took that to mean 'before we existed' - - so i have the question, why do you think you didn't exist before your physical body was formed? - - but specifically as to why should we believe that omniscient God knew us before He created us, the answer is that God when He does something knows exactly what He is doing. We are not haphazard accidents; God didn't just 'roll the dice' in the ignorant human sense - Proverbs 16:33

Too often people anthropomorphize Him in their thinking. People think He is as limited as they are.

 

[marks]

There comes a time to 'shake the dust off'...ya know....

We will all find out in the not too distant future if we have the truth, or a delusion that God has allowed us to keep. (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)

Yes, that's true, but in submission the the Holy Word, we can be in the truth now.

Much love!