One of the Best Explanations I've seen on Satan's sin.

[Aunty Jane]

I read it in one of those Bible study stories online a long time ago.

So it was not from scripture? It’s been perpetuated by the church for centuries, but it’s simply not true.
I dislike the way the church has played with a lot of scripture, but I am not surprised when we consider that Jesus referred to a counterfeit form of Christianity created by the devil that would take hold in the world. Likened to “wheat and weeds”, as any gardener knows, that weeds will grow anywhere, but useful plants like wheat can be choked out by weeds if the farmer does not keep them under control.

When Jesus said that we would know his true disciples by their “fruits” (what they produce) we can probably ask ourselves... “theoretically, if everyone in the world was part of my religion, would there be crime and violence? Sexual immorality? Abortions? Wars and bloodshed? Hypocrisy and compromise with Bible standards as the world’s standards change? Would we need police, judges and courts of law?

This is what God first created....a world like that for us to live in, but disobedience brought sin and death and all the things that human beings bring on themselves and others because of it.

Wouldn’t it be nice to go back and undo all that damage so that we could get back what Adam and his wife lost for all of us? Jesus was sent to do just that.....doesn’t that make sense? What God starts, he finishes...Isaiah 55:11. Revelation 21:3-4.

 

[post]

Can God give himself an inheritance?

For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator
(Hebrews 9:16)​

how does anyone inherit something without the death of the one from whom it is inherited?
in Jewish culture?

Zechariah 12:10 is one of “those” verses that trinitarians cling to in the hope of proving that Jesus is God...

and i notice that you completely ignored it, but instead of addressing it, waved your hand & spammed a bunch of unrelated 'proof texts' of your own.

deal with Zechariah 12. God says it is He Himself, LORD God Almighty, who was pierced.
when He returns they will recognize Him and weep because they will know and understand what they have done.
it's unambiguous.

 

[marks]

deal with Zechariah 12. God says it is He Himself, LORD God Almighty, who was pierced.
when He returns they will recognize Him and weep because they will know and understand what they have done.
it's unambiguous.

And Zechariah 14, YHWH will stand on the Mount of Olives. He's returning in power and glory, and every knee shall bow, and every tongue confess, that Jesus Christ is LORD, to the glory of God the Father.

Isaiah 45:22-25 KJV
22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25) In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

Much love!

 

[post]

Did the apostles have any doubt about who Jesus was?

you mean who He is
He is never 'past tense' -- He is before all things and all things are by Him & for Him. He is the Beginning & the End and the First and the Last.
He is I AM THAT I AM ((Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 22:13)).
He IS -- saying 'who Jesus was' is a theologically ignorant thing to say, indicative of blasphemous false doctrine. He lives, now and forevermore.

that said -- no, they didn't doubt; they believed:

they worshipped Him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy
(Luke 24:52)

​

 

[post]

Did Jesus ever say that he was “God”.....?...even once?

He says it over and over and over and over and over.
He expects us to think.

why did they pick up stones to put Him to death?
for what they called blasphemy: they understood Him to be unambiguously presenting Himself as equivalent with God.
and how many times did they do that? do people not still do that, daily?
don't you?

 

[Aunty Jane]

I didn't realize you were anti-trinitarian.

The Bible is anti-trinitarian. The trinity is one of the foremost blasphemies of Christendom.....which IMO, are the “weeds” of Jesus parable, teaching all manner of erroneous doctrines developed well after the death of Christ and the apostles. Like apostate Judaism, they are full of the traditions and commands of men, not God or the teachings of his Christ. (Matthew 15:7-9)

You also will kneel to Jesus Christ, you also will declare Him to be LORD. That's what it means, you know.

I can kneel before my Lord Jesus, acknowledging him as my Savior, without believing him to be God Almighty. I am not a blasphemer who puts another “god” in place of the Father. That is a breach of the first Commandment. (Exodus 20:3)

 

[marks]

I can kneel before my Lord Jesus, acknowledging him as my Savior, without believing him to be God Almighty.

Acknowledge, believe, it will all be nothing on that day,

Isaiah 45:20-25 KJV
20) Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
21) Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
22) Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
23) I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.
24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.
25) In the LORD shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.

There is one God, YHWH, and to Him you will bow, to the One Savior, the One God, you will bow to Him, to Him you will swear,

Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

When Paul quotes Isaiah, Adonai, LORD, you can pretend he meant something different . . .

But just the same, there is ONE God, ONE Savior, and to Him, to Jesus, you will bow, and you will confess, it is Jesus.

Much love!

 

[Aunty Jane]

you mean who He is
He is never 'past tense' -- He is before all things and all things are by Him & for Him. He is the Beginning & the End and the First and the Last.

No.....I mean he who “Will Be”....look up Exodus 3:13-15 in the Jewish Tanakh....

"And Moses said to God, "Behold I come to the children of Israel, and I say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" יגוַיֹּ֨אמֶר משֶׁ֜ה אֶל־הָֽאֱלֹהִ֗ים הִנֵּ֨ה אָֽנֹכִ֣י בָא֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ וְאָֽמַרְתִּ֣י לָהֶ֔ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י אֲבֽוֹתֵיכֶ֖ם שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם וְאָֽמְרוּ־לִ֣י מַה־שְּׁמ֔וֹ מָ֥ה אֹמַ֖ר אֲלֵהֶֽם:

14God said to Moses, "Ehyeh asher ehyeh (I will be what I will be)," and He said, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'Ehyeh (I will be) has sent me to you.'" ידוַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־משֶׁ֔ה אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה וַיֹּ֗אמֶר כֹּ֤ה תֹאמַר֙ לִבְנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵ֔ל אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה שְׁלָחַ֥נִי אֲלֵיכֶֽם:

15And God said further to Moses, "So shall you say to the children of Israel, 'The Lord God of your forefathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is how I should be mentioned in every generation. טווַיֹּ֩אמֶר֩ ע֨וֹד אֱלֹהִ֜ים אֶל־משֶׁ֗ה כֹּ֣ה תֹאמַר֘ אֶל־בְּנֵ֣י יִשְׂרָאֵל֒ יְהֹוָ֞ה אֱלֹהֵ֣י אֲבֹֽתֵיכֶ֗ם אֱלֹהֵ֨י אַבְרָהָ֜ם אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִצְחָ֛ק וֵֽאלֹהֵ֥י יַֽעֲקֹ֖ב שְׁלָחַ֣נִי אֲלֵיכֶ֑ם זֶה־שְּׁמִ֣י לְעֹלָ֔ם וְזֶ֥ה זִכְרִ֖י לְדֹ֥ר דֹּֽר:"

https://www.chabad.org/library/bible_cdo/aid/9864

God’s name was never “I Am” in the first place. “I Will Be What I Will Be” is the meaning of God’s name. It is a declaration of what he will “be” or “become” in order to fulfill his purpose....not past tense...future tense.

John 8:58 has no connection whatsoever to Exodus 3:14.
"Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” It makes no grammatical sense. Jesus was answering a question about his age and was telling the Jews that he was in existence before Abraham was even born.....past tense. It should read, as other translations have rendered it...."before Abraham was born, I existed".

He is I AM THAT I AM ((Isaiah 44:6, Revelation 22:13)).

Isaiah 44:6 Tanakh...
"So said the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer the Lord of Hosts, "I am first and I am last, and besides Me there is no God. וכֹּֽה־אָמַ֨ר יְהֹוָ֧ה מֶֽלֶךְ־יִשְׂרָאֵ֛ל וְגֹֽאֲל֖וֹ יְהֹוָ֣ה צְבָא֑וֹת אֲנִ֚י רִאשׁוֹן֙ וַֽאֲנִ֣י אַֽחֲר֔וֹן וּמִבַּלְעָדַ֖י אֵ֥ין אֱלֹהִֽים: "
There is no God but the one God of Israel יְהֹוָ֣ה....Yahweh. (Deuteronomy 6:4) No Jew could ever have accepted Jesus as God. There is no God but Yahweh! Jesus is never called Yahweh.

Revelation 22:13...
" I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.”
Both God and Christ can carry this title. It is not exclusive to either of them.

He IS -- saying 'who Jesus was' is a theologically ignorant thing to say, indicative of blasphemous false doctrine. He lives, now and forevermore.

No, sorry...that is what you are reading into verses that do not say that at all. You want them to, so you squeeze them in with a lot of license.
Jesus never once said he was God, or accepted prayer or worship from anyone.

that said -- no, they didn't doubt; they believed:

they worshipped Him, and returned to Jerusalem with great joy
(Luke 24:52)​

Please see post # 126 for an explanation of the word "worship/obeisance.
One of the Best Explanations I've seen on Satan's sin.
No human or angel worshipped Jesus. Obeisance "pro·sky·neʹo" is a word with two distinct meanings, depending on context. When offered to God, it is "worship", but when offered to a human it is "obeisance" (a bowing in respect and honor). Jesus was a human....not a God/man.

I think you need to do some proper research......

​

 

[post]

24) Surely, shall one say, in the LORD have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God — and righteousness and sanctification and redemption
— that, as it is written, “He who glories, let him glory in the LORD.”
(1 Corinthians 1:3-31)​

 

[Ezra]

David Guzik's Bible Commentary,

i like his commentary

 

[post]

I think you need to do some proper research......

He is before all things, and in Him all things consist!
(Colossians 1:17)​

I AM the First and the Last: the Living One, and was dead;
and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen!
(Revelation 1:17-18)​

Jesus is alive. He isn't 'past tense'
if you don't believe that, 'research' isn't going to do you any good: and it hasn't -- notice that you wrote this long unrelated argument about words, instead of addressing the fact that Christ is? He was, He is, He is yet to come. He never 'ceased to exist' - everything that exists is held together by Him! all things were made by Him! John 1:3, Colossians 2:16-17. He is God, not some bodhisattva.

Jesus of Nazareth is the One who says this:

I AM Alpha and Omega, the Beginning and the Ending,
saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty!
(Revelation 1:8)​

stop denying it & start to deal with it!
you are going to face Him and what will you do? tell Him He is a mere man?

 

[post]

God’s name was never “I Am” in the first place.

Exodus 3:14 in Septuagint:

καὶ εἶπεν ὁ θεὸς πρὸς Μωυσῆν
ἐγώ εἰμι ​

and in Hebrew:

וַיֹּ֤אמֶר אֱלֹהִים֙ אֶל־מֹשֶׁ֔ה
אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה​

Exodus 3:14 in English:

God said to Moses
I AM THAT I AM​

talking about whether 'אֲשֶׁ֣ר' means who or which or that is trivial. it does not directly translate. also it doesn't speak to the point at all; it's diversionary.
but the Jews who wrote the OT in Greek used a certain phrase for the name God gave Moses to identify Him by. they put "ἐγώ εἰμι" which is literally "I am I am" or "I, I am" -- got it? that's how the 70 most scholarly, intelligent, devout and wise Jews in the entire world who spoke both languages fluently decided that "אֶֽהְיֶ֖ה אֲשֶׁ֣ר אֶֽהְיֶ֑ה" the name of God in Exodus 3 should be written in Greek. understand? you are not smarter than them. you do not know these languages better than them. you do not know or understand the scripture better than them.

so, back to "ἐγώ εἰμι": it's made up of two different Greek words that both mean "I am" in English. it's not the way a person would normally speak; they would just say one or the other. but Jesus sometimes called Himself by this name, which every single Jew around Him would immediately recognize as the name of God in Exodus 3.
not an accident.
and was He speaking Greek or was He speaking Hebrew?
in fact they tried to kill Him for it -- but no one takes His life; He lays it down and He picks it up again.
when they came to Gethsemane to deliver Him, they asked if He was Jesus? He answered I AM WHO I AM and they were flattened. when they said He was too young to speak to them as He did, He said before Abraham, I AM THAT I AM and they immediately tore their clothes and tried to kill Him for saying it. He explicitly stated about His own sayings that if you do not believe I AM WHICH I AM you will die in your sins. John 8:24

you need an explanation for these things.
not 'an excuse to pretend these things are not' and not 'to talk about something else' -- an explanation for why they are. as long as you keep denying Him, you won't have an explanation. you'll ignore it, you'll deny it, you'll scoff at it & try to talk about something else instead. but you need an explanation. it doesn't go away.

 

[Brakelite]

For Christ to be the divine Son of God He must be begotten (brought forth) of God. If He is not begotten (brought forth) of God then He can neither be a true Son nor truly God. Everything depends upon His Sonship to God. If Christ is deprived of His true Sonship then He is deprived of His true Godship (Godhood). John wrote in the prologue to his Gospel
“And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” John 1:14
“No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” John 1:18
John later wrote (relating the conversation that Jesus had with Nicodemus)
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” John 3:16
“He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” John 3:18
Amongst various scholars there is a consensus of opinion that the words found in the above two verses were not spoken by Jesus. This is because these scholars regard Christ’s conversation with Nicodemus as ending at verse 15. Whilst I am not going to debate this issue here, it is true to say that whichever way this is viewed, it does not detract from the fact that the Holy Spirit inspired John to write these words. This means that even if they were only John’s comments, they are as true as if Jesus Himself had spoken them. I take the view that Jesus did speak these words. John also wrote in one of his pastoral letters
“In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.” 1 John 4:9 On two occasions with His own voice, God confirmed Christ’s Sonship to Himself. The first was at the baptism of Jesus. The second was at His transfiguration
“And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Matthew 3:17
“While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.” Matthew 17:5
From the above it can be seen that this Sonship was not because of Christ’s human birth at Bethlehem but because of His pre-existent relationship with God. To put it another way: According to the Word of God, Christ had a pre-existent Sonship.
God did not send an angel to become His Son, but sent His Son to become a man, one with us. Nor was Christ created. Begotten means brought forth. Jesus' claimsu to Sonship were not based on adoption or creation, and the Jews knew this, otherwise they wouldn't have taken up stones to kill Him. Jesus' claims to Sonship were of the highest order.

 

[post]

....not past tense...future tense.

Qal Imperfect tense. which is not necessarily 'future' in the sense of the English language. it indicates present, unfinished action. this doesn't directly correlate with the English tenses.

He Is, and He continues to be. when Christ, the Angel of the LORD tells Moses this in Exodus 3, the sense is not 'I will be God some day in the future' but that He perpetually is - outside of time; the Creator of time, unbound by time. self-existent & eternal. He is, He always is, He always will be. Alpha & Omega, Alef & Tav.

 

[Aunty Jane]

There is one God, YHWH, and to Him you will bow, to the One Savior, the One God, you will bow to Him, to Him you will swear,

Yes...that is what I understand.....but YHWH is not Jesus.

The title "savior" is not exclusive to God either.
The Apostle Peter identified Jesus as...."...the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." (Acts 5:31)

1 John 4:14...
"We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."

According to Strongs, the Greek word is "sōtēr" and it means....."savior, deliverer; preserver".

In Hebrew the word is "yāšaʿ"which means..."to save, be saved, be delivered."

So is God the only savior or deliverer in the Bible?

Judges 3:9...
"But the sons of Israel cried out to the Lord, and the Lord raised up a deliverer for the sons of Israel to set them free, Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb’s younger brother."

Nehemiah 9:27...
Therefore You handed them over to their enemies who oppressed them,
But when they cried out to You in the time of their distress,
You heard from heaven, and according to Your great compassion
You gave them deliverers who saved them from the hand of their enemies."

Whoever fits that description is a savior or deliverer.

Yahweh is one God not three. (Deuteronomy 6:4)

Philippians 2:10-11 KJV
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

I'm sure I have covered this scripture a few times....
What does it say in context?

Philippians 2:
"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross. 9 For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Take it all in.....what is God's "form". "God is a spirit" (John 4:24) Jesus in his pre-human existence was also a spirit, as are all the angels.

He did not think equality with God was something to be grasped" IOW it was never his intention to present himself as someone to be worshipped.
He saw himself as a slave of his God and Father. Does that signify equality?

He was "obedient to the point of death".....obedient to whom? Himself? Can an immortal God be put to death by mere humans?

He willingly left his heavenly abode to become a flesh and blood human....not a God/man. He gave his human life as a ransom for all, but not all will accept the terms upon which it is offered. "Life" from the very beginning, was conditional. Obedience was required or death would follow.

Now it says that Jesus was "highly exalted" by his Father and given him "a name that is above every name"...think about that?
How does God highly exalt an equal part of himself? How can one part of God, give the other part a name that is above what he already has as "the Most high over all the earth"? (Psalm 83:18)
And "every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord" (not God) to whose glory?...the Father's, not Jesus' glory because he needed God to restore his former glory, once he had completed his mission.
John 17:5..
"And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed."

If Jesus is God, why did he need Yahweh to glorify him? Why did he need his Father to resurrect him? (Acts 2:32) Why did he call Yahweh his God and Father, even after his return to heaven? (Revelation 3:12) Because Yahweh was always his God and father.

So now we see why "every knee will bow" whether they are in heaven, on earth or even the dead when they are resurrected....ALL will owe their life to Jesus.

So those who believe that Jesus is God, as I understand the scriptures, will be missing from the ranks of believers once the judgment comes.....blasphemy carries the death penalty. And those who have been shown the truth but deny it, will be included will receive their due recompense....
2 Thessalonians 1:6-9
"For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power".

This IMV, explains why "few" are on the road to life. (Matthew 7:13-14, 21-23) So many "Christians" today are ignorant of where their beliefs originated.....and they are so entrenched now, that they don't want to see the truth.....it seems like lies to them. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) The lies go back for centuries....the devil is the sower of the weeds...they were not sown recently.

 

[post]

“Truly, truly I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.” It makes no grammatical sense. Jesus was answering a question about his age and was telling the Jews that he was in existence before Abraham was even born.....past tense. It should read, as other translations have rendered it...."before Abraham was born, I existed".

you want to change Ego Eiemi to 'I existed' because you have a theological issue with it. but the trouble is you have no basis to do so, because the text is not in any form of future tense. it is present indicative. not 'I was' but "I AM, I AM"

grammatically it makes perfect sense - but your theological problem prevents you from acknowledging it.
the specific grammatical form has been described as "the present of past action still in progress" ((A.T. Robertson)) - it's eternal. a thing which always has been, now is, and always will be ((see Revelation 1:8 again)).
it makes perfect sense because Christ is claiming to be God: to be the I AM, the eternally self-existent One outside of time, the Creator of time before whom all time is laid bare. and the grammar indicates exactly this: He says before Abraham, He was already existing and continuing to exist: a property in Judaism that is specifically relegated to God Himself, because the Hebrews know exactly what Exodus 3:14 says in Hebrew, and it was Hebrews who did not miss what He was implying who immediately tried to kill Him for what they understood to be blasphemy.

grammar & linguistics are against your misguided cause. you should not have brought them up. you need an explanation for this. you need an explanation for why very intelligent, very devout Jews are immediately so tremendously appalled they rise up to put Him to death at all costs when they hear Him say "Ego Eimi!"

do you understand? these Jews were not allowed to execute anyone under Roman law. they had to bring capital cases before Pilate. so if they had succeeded in stoning Jesus in John 8 they would have all themselves been crucified by the Empire as insurrectionists. they were willing to give up their own lives to kill Jesus, because Jesus called Himself Ego Eimi and they knew He was making Himself equal with God. they said so! John 10:33!

you need an explanation for this!
we have one! Christ is God! in Him the fullness of Deity dwells! Colossians 2:9!! yes, the apostles believed! you do not, yet!
you are just like these Pharisees, and you want to also crucify me & @marks for telling you the truth!

 

[Aunty Jane]

Qal Imperfect tense. which is not necessarily 'future' in the sense of the English language. it indicates present, unfinished action. this doesn't directly correlate with the English tenses.

He Is, and He continues to be. when Christ, the Angel of the LORD tells Moses this in Exodus 3, the sense is not 'I will be God some day in the future' but that He perpetually is - outside of time; the Creator of time, unbound by time. self-existent & eternal. He is, He always is, He always will be. Alpha & Omega, Alef & Tav.

Have it your way...there is no point in arguing....we will all live or die by what we have accepted as truth. We will all face the same judge....
At the time when Jesus walked the earth your trinity did not exist except in paganism. Its an adoption, not something Jesus taught at all.

In all of scripture blasphemy has carried the death penalty.....to claim that Jesus is God Almighty is blasphemy....a clear breach of the first Commandment....
Desperate attempts to justify will cut no mustard with our judge....we all have choices, made with our own minds and hearts.....may we all choose our beliefs wisely.

 

[post]

Yes...that is what I understand.....but YHWH is not Jesus.

The title "savior" is not exclusive to God either.
The Apostle Peter identified Jesus as...."...the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins." (Acts 5:31)

1 John 4:14...
"We have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son to be the Savior of the world."

According to Strongs, the Greek word is "sōtēr" and it means....."savior, deliverer; preserver".

In Hebrew the word is "yāšaʿ"which means..."to save, be saved, be delivered."

So is God the only savior or deliverer in the Bible?

Judges 3:9...
"But the sons of Israel cried out to the Lord, and the Lord raised up a deliverer for the sons of Israel to set them free, Othniel the son of Kenaz, Caleb’s younger brother."

Nehemiah 9:27...
Therefore You handed them over to their enemies who oppressed them,
But when they cried out to You in the time of their distress,
You heard from heaven, and according to Your great compassion
You gave them deliverers who saved them from the hand of their enemies."

Whoever fits that description is a savior or deliverer.

Yahweh is one God not three. (Deuteronomy 6:4)


I'm sure I have covered this scripture a few times....
What does it say in context?

Philippians 2:
"Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, as He already existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself by taking the form of a bond-servant and being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death: death on a cross. 9 For this reason also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Take it all in.....what is God's "form". "God is a spirit" (John 4:24) Jesus in his pre-human existence was also a spirit, as are all the angels.

He did not think equality with God was something to be grasped" IOW it was never his intention to present himself as someone to be worshipped.
He saw himself as a slave of his God and Father. Does that signify equality?

He was "obedient to the point of death".....obedient to whom? Himself? Can an immortal God be put to death by mere humans?

He willingly left his heavenly abode to become a flesh and blood human....not a God/man. He gave his human life as a ransom for all, but not all will accept the terms upon which it is offered. "Life" from the very beginning, was conditional. Obedience was required or death would follow.

Now it says that Jesus was "highly exalted" by his Father and given him "a name that is above every name"...think about that?
How does God highly exalt an equal part of himself? How can one part of God, give the other part a name that is above what he already has as "the Most high over all the earth"? (Psalm 83:18)
And "every tongue will confess that Jesus is Lord" (not God) to whose glory?...the Father's, not Jesus' glory because he needed God to restore his former glory, once he had completed his mission.
John 17:5..
"And now You, Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world existed."

If Jesus is God, why did he need Yahweh to glorify him? Why did he need his Father to resurrect him? (Acts 2:32) Why did he call Yahweh his God and Father, even after his return to heaven? (Revelation 3:12) Because Yahweh was always his God and father.

So now we see why "every knee will bow" whether they are in heaven, on earth or even the dead when they are resurrected....ALL will owe their life to Jesus.

So those who believe that Jesus is God, as I understand the scriptures, will be missing from the ranks of believers once the judgment comes.....blasphemy carries the death penalty. And those who have been shown the truth but deny it, will be included will receive their due recompense....
2 Thessalonians 1:6-9
"For after all it is only right for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, 7 and to give relief to you who are afflicted, along with us, when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels 8 in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God, and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 These people will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power".

This IMV, explains why "few" are on the road to life. (Matthew 7:13-14, 21-23) So many "Christians" today are ignorant of where their beliefs originated.....and they are so entrenched now, that they don't want to see the truth.....it seems like lies to them. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) The lies go back for centuries....the devil is the sower of the weeds...they were not sown recently.

so your excuse for your unbelief is that "there are other saviors"

???

that's what you're going to tell Jesus when you bow before Him?

 

[post]

Have it your way...

ok,

• i am telling you the truth
• you are rejecting it
  
• you would rather die than bow before the name of Jesus
  • ((you will do both, Philippians 2))
• you have no argument

that is what we all see happening here.

 

[post]

In all of scripture blasphemy has carried the death penalty.....to claim that Jesus is God Almighty is blasphemy...

my God!
- Thomas, speaking to Jesus, John 20:28​

you have believed
Jesus, speaking to Thomas, John 20:29​

well @Aunty Jane i guess you've got to go pick up stones and murder our Blessed Lord & Savior & His apostle now.
duty calls eh
pharisees gonna pharisee

i guess i'll let you be.
a word of advice tho -- when you leave, don't go to atheist boards. atheists are smart enough to realize that Christianity is centered around the deity of Christ. you won't be accepted there. they'll laugh at you and scoff saying you don't even understand your own religion. sometimes it's not the world but 'the church' who seems to not comprehend what & who The Way is ((smh))
so just stick with your mantra "Christ is not God" and the world will 100% be in fellowship with you.