I am saved?

[theefaith]

Are you going by spiritual pride, self-righteous private judgement from scripture, or the humility to hear the teaching of Christ through the church of His apostles?
Obedience of faith: rom 16:26
We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6
Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31
Teach all nations: Matt 28:19
He who hears you (the apostles) hears me: lk 10:16
Hear the church: Matt 18:17
Church is the pillar and ground of truth: 1 Tim 3:14
Christ and his church are one, the church is an extension of Christ through the whole world and all time: acts 9:4

“I am saved”! Really?

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 10:22
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

Phil 1:29 called suffer

1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

Some will abandon the faith

1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

2 Peter 2:21 "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

Jude 1: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

Jude 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.

1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

Faith and baptism: Mk 16:16 Jn 3:5 acts 2:38-39 1 pet 3:20-21 Acts 8:36-38

The doctrine of “the Bible alone” is really just the spiritual pride of self-righteous private judgement!

Jn 15:1 abide in me, 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!

Humility and obedience of faith !
Thanks feel free to share youre insights

 

[theefaith]

Thy will be done!

 

[dev553344]

I don't say that I'm saved. I leave the judgment up to Jesus. I believe someone is truly saved when they are resurrected and drawn into heaven. Before then we're not saved. How can we say we are saved in our earthly state?

 

[MatthewG]

@theefaith

That is right! I like this good scripture based.

Thinking about Jesus and his humility when he had went through his trail, being spit on in the face, beaten with a rod, bashed in the face with fist, mocked, laughed at, having a crown of thorns on the base of his head…, how did he react through all of these things?

Humbly taking on the worlds sins right there, all the way up until death on the cross. He showed his thoughts for his fellow mates and his mother (I believe on of his quotes), he showed and also Asked his Father to forgive them they know not what they do.

How we are to love God, our Family, and forgive those who have no understanding even those who are spiritually blind, rude, mean, drug ridden or having problems in their flesh.

To have love and to have compassion on all people to pray for all people, this is Gods desire for us to live out in obedience to Jesus Christ.

These are just some of my thoughts,
Do you have anymore?

 

[MatthewG]

Hello @devin553344

Have you ever considered this scripture before sir?


“God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭NLT‬‬

 

[dev553344]

Hello @devin553344

Have you ever considered this scripture before sir?


“God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭NLT‬‬

I like that scripture. It's very comforting. But I will never say that I am saved until I am resurrected and brought into heaven. Then I will rejoice!

 

[MatthewG]

You can do whatever you like to, @devin553344. Just never lose sight in the Lord Jesus Christ who died, was buried, and resurrected my friend.

 

[dev553344]

You can do whatever you like to, @devin553344. Just never lose sight in the Lord Jesus Christ who died, was buried, and resurrected my friend.

I think about him daily.

 

[MatthewG]

You don’t gotta prove that to my friend! I’m not a judge. Only God is our judge you know that though. I’m just a person who desires to have love for God and love for people. Am just a messenger passing through.

You take care am fixing to go ahead and get off here.

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

So what is the OP saying?? That baptism saves??

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

Responding to each of the verses used in the first post would take more time than I am willing to spend tonight. Between illogical use of a number of verses and/or taking them out of context the original post is beyond confusing. So here's a few verses and my thoughts:

We must be taught by Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. Jn 14:6

Just HOW does that verse relate to being taught?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. (KJV)

Instructed: Lk 1:4 acts 8:31

It would seem you're trying to take one verse and applying it to everyone. Look at the verse in context. This is directed to Theophilus, a Jew, not 'all Jews' and not 'all Gentiles'. It's clear that he has spent some time with Luke and likely other disciples. Given that it's commonly thought that the Gospels were written sometime after 50 AD, Theophilus likely spent more than a couple of days or weeks with Luke. Probably more like years. So how does that apply to anyone since then? Yes, we've each been instructed by learned men more knowledgeable in the Bible than we are. Like all people, everyone has an opinion about what this or that means. Those opinions then 'slant' scripture accurately or inaccurately, and may be taught for hundreds of years by individuals that add their own slants and obfuscation to the information.

Luke 1:1-4 (KJV)
1 Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us,
2 Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word;
3 It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus,
4 That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

And Acts 8:31? The eunuch was actively seeking to learn from Gods' Word. We all need to spend time daily in His Word. Taking the opinions of others that may or may not be right can cause much confusion. Gods' Word IS the sole source of the truth.

Acts 8:30-31 (KJV)
30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (KJV)

Teach all nations: Matt 28:19

The question here is WHAT are they to teach? The law, as that's what they knew from childhood. But they also taught what they saw with their own eyes and believed with all their heart...Jesus IS the promised Messiah, risen from the dead! Nothing in the Old Testament or the Gospels indicates Jesus' death for our sin. That was revealed roughly 40 AD to Paul by revelation by Jesus.

Matthew 28:18-20 (KJV)
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Yes, we today ARE to take the Gospel to the world. We are to be missionaries to our family, friends, co-workers, and the world. But just as each church denomination 'slants' their beliefs, those slants are then being propagated as well. That's why I say the Bible is the ONLY source of Gods' TRUTH.

Hear the church: Matt 18:17

As I wrote in the Luke 1:43 post #254 last week, Jesus likely used the term ‘church’ to apply to any faith. Most believe that the first reference to ‘church’ in the Bible is Jesus telling Peter that He will build my church… Note He said MY church, not the Roman Catholic or any other church denomination as some believe.

Whenever Christians see the word ‘church’, we immediately think it is referring to the Gentile churches and denominations we are familiar with. Unfortunately, that is NOT always true in the Bible. A quick check of the Greek word ‘ekklesia’(Strongs’ G3450) is translated to ‘church’ in every Bible version I know of. Ekklesia literally means ‘a called out assembly’. Most often it refers to a religious congregation of any faith. It has nothing to do with a physical building, location, or a denomination. I went on in that post, the Gentile church as we know it today didn't appear until AFTER Paul received the revelation and doesn't seem to show up until sometime after Acts 14 takes place.

matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matthew 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Matthew 24-25 and the other verses quote all refer to AFTER the much prophesied 7 years tribulation, that will soon be upon us. It's safe to say that plagues, famines, and nuclear war will all occur during that time. It's already starting to happen. The technology for all of that prophecy is available today. So, unless one is literally a 'doomsday prepper' currently living off-grid, self sustaining, with 7+ years food and water supply, in a secure bunker hundreds of miles away from any nuclear blasts and fallout, chances of surviving to the end are nil. But there will be a very few that 'make it'.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Apparently, once again, that verse is taken way, way out of context! Read Revelation 2:18-29. It's all (and ONLY) about the church in Thyatira. Do you REALLY want to be 'associated' with that church? If so, you "ain't gonna make it", my friend.

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"
Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"
Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away
Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

As I mentioned in the referenced Luke 1:43 thread, fundamentals of Bible study require that one ascertain WHO is writing or talking, to WHOM are they writing or talking, what are the conditions, situations, etc, and what is the desired effect. And, of course, CONTEXT.

Trying to apply the goal of the Book of Hebrews to Gentiles believer doctrine today is a sure-fire mass of confusion. Hebrews is a great source of information for the unsaved that it's all about 'faith, faith, faith' as Hebrews clearly shows. I've even presented chapel services at the local rescue mission based on Hebrews 11. But the book is directed to Jews and proclaims the faith of their Jewish fathers, all documented in the Old Testament. And regarding Hebrews 6, look at the entire text, verses 1-9

Hebrews 6:1-9 (KJV)
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

Notice that verse 1 refers to 'dead works'. Paul is writing about salvation by grace alone through faith. Verse 4 and 5 shows a difference of Bible translations, with the KJV using the term 'tasted' instead of 'partakers'. If I were to 'taste' some new food, I'm only sampling a tiny part of it. Partaking speaks of having a full serving of the food. Draw your own conclusions about the true intents of all the above verses.

 

[theefaith]

So what is the OP saying?? That baptism saves??

Yes

 

[theefaith]

Paul never says faith alone

dead works are works alone!

1 cor 13:2 all faith without charity avails nothing
1 cor 13:13 greatest is charity not faith alone, and if it was by faith then faith would be the greatest

 

[Lifelong_sinner]

Sacraments do NOT grant salvation.

 

[theefaith]

Sacraments do NOT grant salvation.

It’s not a bible study!
It’s a covenant!

Not by “faith alone”
“Faith alone” not biblical
“Faith alone” never given in prophesy in the OT.
You may think “Accept Jesus Christ as you personal Lord and savior” is biblical but there is no such verse in your bible!

Faith and the sacraments in the church founded by the authority Christ on Peter and the apostles is biblical!

Faith and baptism is the biblical initiation into the new covenant and member is Christ and His holy church!
Ez 36:25-27 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

You cannot enter a covenant by “faith alone” must be a ritual outward sign!
Faith and baptism! Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Merits of christ’s passion, death, and precious blood are applied in the sacraments! Jn 1:16

Colossians 1:20
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

Matt 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Rom 3:24
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Acts 2:47
Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Lk 1: 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74 That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

There is only one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors is the new covenant body of Christ! Matt 1:18 & Jn 10:16 one fold

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

Christ and His church are one: acts 9 why persecute me?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,


Sacraments are the fruit of the sacrifice!
The holy sacrifice of Christ, His passion, blood, and death producing unlimited fruits of divine grace, actual and sanctifying grace! Jn 1:29 Jn 1:16-17 Jn 10:10


“This promise” (sacred oath of God or sacrament) of the Father acts 2:38-39 with reference to ez 36:25-27 Also a mystery Mk 4:11 Eph 5:32 eph 6:19 1 Tim 3:9 3:16 Col 1:27 2:2 4:3

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Ez 36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Heb 7:21 For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
(Oath = sacrament)

Hebrews 8:6
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Based on Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


A promise is a sacred oath or sacrament!
Baptismal regeneration is the promise of the Father for union in the new covenant!

The church and the seven sacraments are necessary for salvation

Better covenant on better promises

2 Timothy 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

Life of supernatural grace merited by Christ in His passion and death!

An oath to sacramental life in the new covenant in union with the mediator and communion with God, and the saints!

Promise of the Father acts 2:23-39
Promise is an oath and an oath is a sacrament! This promise of the sacrament of baptism refers to ez. 36:25-27

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

Jn 1:5-5 abide in Him, apart from Him you can do nothing.

Jn 10:10 life, (grace more abundantly)
Jn 1: 16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.

17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
Thru the sacraments!

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

So what is the OP saying?? That baptism saves??

Yes

So, in your opinion, and apparently that of the Roman Catholic church as well, baptism is sufficient for spending eternity in heaven with Jesus and the saints? Yes, I'm fully aware that Catechism #537 & 1213 state clearly state that. So, as a Catholic, WHAT does it take to 'earn' your way into heaven?

Since being saved 23 years ago by grace through faith, I consider the Roman Catholic Church to be no different than the Pharisees of Israel. The Pharisees were the 'holier than thou' people of the day. They attempted to 'improve' upon following the 513 laws handed down by Moses (starting with the 10 commandments) by 'adding to them'. One such example was prohibiting ANY work on the Sabbath. One could not even light a fire for cooking or heating on the Sabbath, according to them. Certainly an 'extension' of the 4th commandment. There were many such 'additions' by the Pharisees. They were oral only, as well. None were written down, they were orally passed on through the years. That way, those traditions, aka, false laws, kept Israel under their control, not the laws from God.

The Catholic Church has done the same thing as the Pharisees. They've created numerous 'additions' to Gods' Word and created numerous teachings and traditions that go far beyond faith, faith, faith, as expounded upon by Paul in Hebrews 11. As a former Episcopal acolyte 60+ years ago, I witnessed many of the same traditions as those in the Catholic Church while I was married to a Catholic for 5 years. The priest washed his hands in 'holy water' before and after communion, kissed the Bible, held up the large wafer declaring it 'the Lamb of God that takest away the sins of the world', and on and on. Of course, like the Catholic Church, the Episcopal priests wore 'ceremonial' clothing including cassock, cotta, girdle (rope belt tied in a specific way with loops around each end), and, of course, highly decorated colorful outer wear that changed based on ecclesiastical time of year. And the images of the censor being freely waved around during the entry processional (I even carried the cross!), Lent, and the Pascal Candle every year are still clear in my head after all these years. I can't forget the requirement to genuflect when entering a pew, etc.

Jesus really 'laid into' the Pharisees for their traditions - (underlining mine)

Matthew 15:2-3,6 (KJV)
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Mark 7:3,5,8-9,13 (KJV) For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

One of the worst days of my Christian walk with Christ was when a highly intelligent, very well read good friend, a devout Catholic, and now retired judge told me that he has 'faith in the traditions of the Catholic Church and scripture'. He's as dyed-in-the-wool Catholic as I've ever known. He's also as knowledgeable in the Bible as any Catholics on this forum. Now you know why I am very 'down' on the traditions of the Catholic Church.

And like good Catholics everywhere, he has faith in 'scripture'. Not the Bible. Not Gods' Word'. Just 'scripture'. And why is that? Because it allows 'selective belief' of what's in the Bible, thus denying that it is ALL Gods' Word. And from the responses in this and other threads, 'cherry picking' of verses, often out of context, is done excessively, just as the Catechism of the Catholic Church does.

 

[Bruce Atkinson]

Paul never says faith alone
dead works are works alone!

Once again, you're exemplified a lack of understanding Gods' Word.

The Book of Hebrews is written TO JEWS, ie, ISRAEL. Under the law that all Jews are under back then, works is part of the law. The quoted scripture is referring to the fact that salvation due to works is dead. Period! Read Hebrews 11 again! How many WORKS are in there?

Hebrews 6:1-9 (KJV)
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

And you've already stated that Ephesians 2:8-9 is not true. There you go with 'selective belief' again.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[theefaith]

So, in your opinion, and apparently that of the Roman Catholic church as well, baptism is sufficient for spending eternity in heaven with Jesus and the saints? Yes, I'm fully aware that Catechism #537 & 1213 state clearly state that. So, as a Catholic, WHAT does it take to 'earn' your way into heaven?

Since being saved 23 years ago by grace through faith, I consider the Roman Catholic Church to be no different than the Pharisees of Israel. The Pharisees were the 'holier than thou' people of the day. They attempted to 'improve' upon following the 513 laws handed down by Moses (starting with the 10 commandments) by 'adding to them'. One such example was prohibiting ANY work on the Sabbath. One could not even light a fire for cooking or heating on the Sabbath, according to them. Certainly an 'extension' of the 4th commandment. There were many such 'additions' by the Pharisees. They were oral only, as well. None were written down, they were orally passed on through the years. That way, those traditions, aka, false laws, kept Israel under their control, not the laws from God.

The Catholic Church has done the same thing as the Pharisees. They've created numerous 'additions' to Gods' Word and created numerous teachings and traditions that go far beyond faith, faith, faith, as expounded upon by Paul in Hebrews 11. As a former Episcopal acolyte 60+ years ago, I witnessed many of the same traditions as those in the Catholic Church while I was married to a Catholic for 5 years. The priest washed his hands in 'holy water' before and after communion, kissed the Bible, held up the large wafer declaring it 'the Lamb of God that takest away the sins of the world', and on and on. Of course, like the Catholic Church, the Episcopal priests wore 'ceremonial' clothing including cassock, cotta, girdle (rope belt tied in a specific way with loops around each end), and, of course, highly decorated colorful outer wear that changed based on ecclesiastical time of year. And the images of the censor being freely waved around during the entry processional (I even carried the cross!), Lent, and the Pascal Candle every year are still clear in my head after all these years. I can't forget the requirement to genuflect when entering a pew, etc.

Jesus really 'laid into' the Pharisees for their traditions - (underlining mine)

Matthew 15:2-3,6 (KJV)
2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.
3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?
6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Mark 7:3,5,8-9,13 (KJV) For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.
5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

One of the worst days of my Christian walk with Christ was when a highly intelligent, very well read good friend, a devout Catholic, and now retired judge told me that he has 'faith in the traditions of the Catholic Church and scripture'. He's as dyed-in-the-wool Catholic as I've ever known. He's also as knowledgeable in the Bible as any Catholics on this forum. Now you know why I am very 'down' on the traditions of the Catholic Church.

And like good Catholics everywhere, he has faith in 'scripture'. Not the Bible. Not Gods' Word'. Just 'scripture'. And why is that? Because it allows 'selective belief' of what's in the Bible, thus denying that it is ALL Gods' Word. And from the responses in this and other threads, 'cherry picking' of verses, often out of context, is done excessively, just as the Catechism of the Catholic Church does.

pick an example and be specific
We can discuss it and find common ground and share biblical insights

why is the “Bible alone” so important for you?
The Bible yes!
Scripture yes!

What is the rule of faith for Christians?
What is the source of truth?

thanks

 

[theefaith]

Once again, you're exemplified a lack of understanding Gods' Word.

The Book of Hebrews is written TO JEWS, ie, ISRAEL. Under the law that all Jews are under back then, works is part of the law. The quoted scripture is referring to the fact that salvation due to works is dead. Period! Read Hebrews 11 again! How many WORKS are in there?

Hebrews 6:1-9 (KJV)
1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

And you've already stated that Ephesians 2:8-9 is not true. There you go with 'selective belief' again.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

eph 2 is true
It just refers to redemption not justification

works of the law is a legal terms
There are works alone
Works of the law
faith and works done in Christ through grace

 

[theefaith]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
The holy church is the ark of grace and salvation!