Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
LOL lifelong...
Hogwash does not a doctrine make.
You've skipped over much of the NT where works are clearly stated to be necessary.
This was the primary teaching of Jesus.
Well, I see you're into bike riding now...and tall ones too!@GodsGrace...you have not changed a bit...have I?..and hello again....
Sure they do.works are a receipt of salvation. Works dont gain nor keep your salvation.
Hi MarksActs 16:16-17 LITV
16) And it happened, as we went into a place of prayer, a certain girl slave having a Pythonic spirit met us, whose divining brought much gain to her lords.
17) Following after Paul and us, she cried out, saying, These men are slaves of the Most High God, who are announcing to us a way of salvation!
So what was the problem here? A girl known for divining is telling the people Paul and them are "announcing a way of salvation"? Weren't they? Wasn't see just certifying their mission?
Absolutely not!!
One thing they were NOT doing was announcing "A way" of salvation, for there is given One Name under heaven by which men must be saved.
One slight change, it still sounded good! One slight change, will anyone notice? One slight change, and the entire meaning is changed. From one slight change, Paul's Gospel message becomes distorted beyond recognition.
So in case anyone wonders why I'm so particular about translations being accurate, and that I hold so tightly to the text, well, I see these tiny changes being done by so many people as they support their views, and I'd like to think I know better than to follow in those footsteps.
This thread has many examples of this. And added word here, a cherry picked translation there. And the certainty of Christ's salvation becomes dread that it may be taken away.
Two passages I pointed to beginning this thread.
One tells us that all who are raised with Christ will appear with Christ, by univerally application within the stated condition. That condition being solely, "if you were raised with Christ". Not some ongoing thing, like we are constantly in a state of being raised. Was that how Jesus was resurrected? That He is even now still coming out of the tomb?
That's like the idea that's been passed around that somewhere in eternity Jesus is still hanging on a cross.
We are co-crucified with Him, so how it happened for Him is how it happens for us. We are co-raised with Him, so how it happened to His is how it happens to us. We will be co-revealed with Him, so how it happens for Him is how it will happen for us.
There's an iteresting thought! Jesus Christ will be revealed from heaven in flaming fire taking vengeance on His enemies. Wow! We will be revealed from heaven with Him. Of course, we've been seated with Him in the heavenly realm, so that has harmony.
Revealed from heaven, I know what that make me think of!
Just the same, 2 passages. The other shows that when we believe this truth, that when we see Him, we will be like Him, that expectation, well, it's axiomatic. The one who has this hope purifies himself. They just do.
So for you who desires to be pure, just like Jesus is pure, here this Word from God.
We KNOW that when we see Him, we will be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And he who has this hope purifies himself, even as He is pure.
For we shall see Him as He is.
Have we learned to do these little mental gymnastics in other passages too? Have we held ideas without seriously trying to grow them in Scripture, instead trying to find how our ideas are supported, rather than just learning the Bible without regard to our views, only to learn the Biblical teaching, and when we have different ideas, to change them?
Much love!
Yes, these works are not those conceived by ourselves, for ourselves and personal gain. These self- motivated works can never give one the seed of salvation implanted within us, let alone thinking we are a maintaining this state of being by ourselves.works are a receipt of salvation. Works dont gain nor keep your salvation.
Hi Marks
First, let me say that salvation is not taken away from us,,,I'd say that it's the person that can walk away from it. God will not disown us for as long as we desire to stay with Him.
Re the translations,,,of course each one might display some bias or other. This is why I have many versions.
Would you agree that newer versions might be more faithful to the original teachings because of all the new manuscripts found that are older?
Agreed on paragraph 2.Yes, these works are not those conceived by ourselves, for ourselves and personal gain. These self- motivated works can never give one the seed of salvation implanted within us, let alone thinking we are a maintaining this state of being by ourselves.
These works of salvation are spirit-inspired works of the spirit of truth within us. We accept doing this work with joy, love and without reservation to bring fruits of our new spirit to honor our Savior and master, and glorify our Father.
Yes, I know this is thought by a great many people. How do you walk away from what you are?
I'd ask that to anyone. Rebirth is recreation to a new person. It's a transfer from the humanity of Adam to the humanity of Christ. It's being moved from the kingdom of darkness into Jesus' kingdom. It's being changed from flesh born of flesh to spirit born of Spirit.
How do you "walk away" from that?
Are you able to "walk away" from being the human child of your earthly parents? How will you "walk away" from being the spirit child of God?
I have quite a view versions, but after all these years, I prefer literal word for word, and interlinears. The NIV or the Message never appear on my desk. I like the KJV, Holman, NASB, and I have several interlinears of the different versions.
Is there better reliability in older manuscripts?
They are fewer, show less agreement amongst themselves (by far), show many correcters, one salvaged from a trash pile, left there while Bible manuscripts were rare treasures, but mostly I see this as a matter of faith,
Psalms 119:89-90 KJV
89) LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
90) Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.
I believe God has in fact preserve His Word, for all generations, not just those who lived after the "real" Bible was found.
For myself, I think the New Testament is best represented in the Majority Manuscript, which what, 5500 + manuscript copies, showing something like 99.5% + agreement, in continuous use during all that time.
Much love!
Well in 1 I mean there are people that decide for themselves what works are worthy to please God, as they boast and become proud in this process of performing these selfish works, that builds up their own ego and not necessarily to glorify God.Agreed on paragraph 2.
What do you mean in 1?
Are you talking about works without faith?
How do you understand
Luke 8:13?
Jesus said They believed for a while...
We accept doing this work with joy, love and without reservation to
Into this group I put anything that you think you have to do to "remain saved".Well in 1 I mean there are people that decide for themselves what works are worthy to please God, as they boast and become proud in this process of performing these selfish works, that builds up their own ego and not necessarily to glorify God.
All good and being candid and direct is actually comforting to me....Into this group I put anything that you think you have to do to "remain saved".
We shouldn't be trying to stay saved, we should be rejoicing that we are saved, and if we've firmly stabliized our calling and election, and aren't being blown about wondering if we're really reborn, we can settle our minds on a walk of faith, because it's HIM we trust, we do not accept Any Burden to "keep ourselves saved", God does that, and we are not God.
Will I stop being saved? What must I do to stay saved? These questions are the opposite of faith, and have the opposite effect from faith.
You know that I write generally, not always directed personally to you? So if anything I say offends, that was meant for someone else.
Much love!
I've gathered that, and I appreciate that! I'm the same way!All good and being candid and direct is actually comforting to me....
This subject of salvation can be confusing even to the most eager student in the study of the word. I know in scripture that the word 'saved' as in the past tense is used several times. I also see it used in the present tense, as 'being saved,' in the hope of realized salvation. I tend to see salvation as in the present tense. The 'saved' in the past tense means to me that the seed of the spirit of truth is now within us, and has germinated or ignited the new person within us. We are now as Christ. This then continues in the process of sanctification in real hope of full and realized salvation in the end.I've gathered that, and I appreciate that! I'm the same way!
Much love!
I do believe that.So then you don't believe that if you've been raised with Him, you will appear with Him.
Either that or he's into watching old '60s TV shows.Well, I see you're into bike riding now...and tall ones too!
So you don't believe it. And round and round we go.I do believe that.
What I don't believe is that, categorically and without exception, every single person that has been raised with him will remain raised with him.