Eternal Security
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Lifelong_sinner
Well-Known Member
Well, I see you're into bike riding now...and tall ones too!
No, I'm still me.
Have you changed??
So many new posters...
Sure they do.
What did Jesus spend over 3 years teaching the Apostles so that they could pass on the teachings?
What do you think John 5:28 means?
Acts 16:16-17 LITV
16) And it happened, as we went into a place of prayer, a certain girl slave having a Pythonic spirit met us, whose divining brought much gain to her lords.
17) Following after Paul and us, she cried out, saying, These men are slaves of the Most High God, who are announcing to us a way of salvation!
So what was the problem here? A girl known for divining is telling the people Paul and them are "announcing a way of salvation"? Weren't they? Wasn't see just certifying their mission?
Absolutely not!!
One thing they were NOT doing was announcing "A way" of salvation, for there is given One Name under heaven by which men must be saved.
One slight change, it still sounded good! One slight change, will anyone notice? One slight change, and the entire meaning is changed. From one slight change, Paul's Gospel message becomes distorted beyond recognition.
So in case anyone wonders why I'm so particular about translations being accurate, and that I hold so tightly to the text, well, I see these tiny changes being done by so many people as they support their views, and I'd like to think I know better than to follow in those footsteps.
This thread has many examples of this. And added word here, a cherry picked translation there. And the certainty of Christ's salvation becomes dread that it may be taken away.
Two passages I pointed to beginning this thread.
One tells us that all who are raised with Christ will appear with Christ, by univerally application within the stated condition. That condition being solely, "if you were raised with Christ". Not some ongoing thing, like we are constantly in a state of being raised. Was that how Jesus was resurrected? That He is even now still coming out of the tomb?
That's like the idea that's been passed around that somewhere in eternity Jesus is still hanging on a cross.
We are co-crucified with Him, so how it happened for Him is how it happens for us. We are co-raised with Him, so how it happened to His is how it happens to us. We will be co-revealed with Him, so how it happens for Him is how it will happen for us.
There's an iteresting thought! Jesus Christ will be revealed from heaven in flaming fire taking vengeance on His enemies. Wow! We will be revealed from heaven with Him. Of course, we've been seated with Him in the heavenly realm, so that has harmony.
Revealed from heaven, I know what that make me think of!
Just the same, 2 passages. The other shows that when we believe this truth, that when we see Him, we will be like Him, that expectation, well, it's axiomatic. The one who has this hope purifies himself. They just do.
So for you who desires to be pure, just like Jesus is pure, here this Word from God.
We KNOW that when we see Him, we will be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And he who has this hope purifies himself, even as He is pure.
For we shall see Him as He is.
Have we learned to do these little mental gymnastics in other passages too? Have we held ideas without seriously trying to grow them in Scripture, instead trying to find how our ideas are supported, rather than just learning the Bible without regard to our views, only to learn the Biblical teaching, and when we have different ideas, to change them?
Much love!
16) And it happened, as we went into a place of prayer, a certain girl slave having a Pythonic spirit met us, whose divining brought much gain to her lords.
17) Following after Paul and us, she cried out, saying, These men are slaves of the Most High God, who are announcing to us a way of salvation!
So what was the problem here? A girl known for divining is telling the people Paul and them are "announcing a way of salvation"? Weren't they? Wasn't see just certifying their mission?
Absolutely not!!
One thing they were NOT doing was announcing "A way" of salvation, for there is given One Name under heaven by which men must be saved.
One slight change, it still sounded good! One slight change, will anyone notice? One slight change, and the entire meaning is changed. From one slight change, Paul's Gospel message becomes distorted beyond recognition.
So in case anyone wonders why I'm so particular about translations being accurate, and that I hold so tightly to the text, well, I see these tiny changes being done by so many people as they support their views, and I'd like to think I know better than to follow in those footsteps.
This thread has many examples of this. And added word here, a cherry picked translation there. And the certainty of Christ's salvation becomes dread that it may be taken away.
Two passages I pointed to beginning this thread.
One tells us that all who are raised with Christ will appear with Christ, by univerally application within the stated condition. That condition being solely, "if you were raised with Christ". Not some ongoing thing, like we are constantly in a state of being raised. Was that how Jesus was resurrected? That He is even now still coming out of the tomb?
That's like the idea that's been passed around that somewhere in eternity Jesus is still hanging on a cross.
We are co-crucified with Him, so how it happened for Him is how it happens for us. We are co-raised with Him, so how it happened to His is how it happens to us. We will be co-revealed with Him, so how it happens for Him is how it will happen for us.
There's an iteresting thought! Jesus Christ will be revealed from heaven in flaming fire taking vengeance on His enemies. Wow! We will be revealed from heaven with Him. Of course, we've been seated with Him in the heavenly realm, so that has harmony.
Revealed from heaven, I know what that make me think of!
Just the same, 2 passages. The other shows that when we believe this truth, that when we see Him, we will be like Him, that expectation, well, it's axiomatic. The one who has this hope purifies himself. They just do.
So for you who desires to be pure, just like Jesus is pure, here this Word from God.
We KNOW that when we see Him, we will be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. And he who has this hope purifies himself, even as He is pure.
For we shall see Him as He is.
Have we learned to do these little mental gymnastics in other passages too? Have we held ideas without seriously trying to grow them in Scripture, instead trying to find how our ideas are supported, rather than just learning the Bible without regard to our views, only to learn the Biblical teaching, and when we have different ideas, to change them?
Much love!
Hi Marks
First, let me say that salvation is not taken away from us,,,I'd say that it's the person that can walk away from it. God will not disown us for as long as we desire to stay with Him.
Re the translations,,,of course each one might display some bias or other. This is why I have many versions.
Would you agree that newer versions might be more faithful to the original teachings because of all the new manuscripts found that are older?
Yes, these works are not those conceived by ourselves, for ourselves and personal gain. These self- motivated works can never give one the seed of salvation implanted within us, let alone thinking we are a maintaining this state of being by ourselves.
These works of salvation are spirit-inspired works of the spirit of truth within us. We accept doing this work with joy, love and without reservation to bring fruits of our new spirit to honor our Savior and master, and glorify our Father.
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Yes, I know this is thought by a great many people. How do you walk away from what you are?
I'd ask that to anyone. Rebirth is recreation to a new person. It's a transfer from the humanity of Adam to the humanity of Christ. It's being moved from the kingdom of darkness into Jesus' kingdom. It's being changed from flesh born of flesh to spirit born of Spirit.
How do you "walk away" from that?
Are you able to "walk away" from being the human child of your earthly parents? How will you "walk away" from being the spirit child of God?
I have quite a view versions, but after all these years, I prefer literal word for word, and interlinears. The NIV or the Message never appear on my desk. I like the KJV, Holman, NASB, and I have several interlinears of the different versions.
Is there better reliability in older manuscripts?
They are fewer, show less agreement amongst themselves (by far), show many correcters, one salvaged from a trash pile, left there while Bible manuscripts were rare treasures, but mostly I see this as a matter of faith,
Psalms 119:89-90 KJV
89) LAMED. For ever, O LORD, thy word is settled in heaven.
90) Thy faithfulness is unto all generations: thou hast established the earth, and it abideth.
I believe God has in fact preserve His Word, for all generations, not just those who lived after the "real" Bible was found.
For myself, I think the New Testament is best represented in the Majority Manuscript, which what, 5500 + manuscript copies, showing something like 99.5% + agreement, in continuous use during all that time.
Much love!
Well in 1 I mean there are people that decide for themselves what works are worthy to please God, as they boast and become proud in this process of performing these selfish works, that builds up their own ego and not necessarily to glorify God.
These are ultimately selfish works that are not of genuine faith. Their faith is from themselves and not given by God as his gift, essential to the process of growing into the new person and being saved. God does not see their works as holy works, only as trash.
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Luke 8:11-16 KJV
11) Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12) Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13) They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14) And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15) But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.
16) No man, when he hath lighted a candle, covereth it with a vessel, or putteth it under a bed; but setteth it on a candlestick, that they which enter in may see the light.
Only the fourth soil, "having heard the Word, kept it".
Luke 11:27-28 KJV
27) And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.
28) But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.
I think those who are represented by the rocky soil have an emotional experience, they like what they here, but
Luke 8:13 KJV
They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Peter talks about the testings that prove the genuineness of your faith. In the time of testing these fall away.
Much love!
Do you mean to say, "we're super happy because we know God, and we know He's taking care of us, and we just do all the things He sets in front of us, and look to Him, and get happier still when we see how He works out everything, and we even get to play a part, like that?
Into this group I put anything that you think you have to do to "remain saved".
We shouldn't be trying to stay saved, we should be rejoicing that we are saved, and if we've firmly stabilized our calling and election, and aren't being blown about wondering if we're really reborn, we can settle our minds on a walk of faith, because it's HIM we trust, we do not accept Any Burden to "keep ourselves saved", God does that, and we are not God.
Will I stop being saved? What must I do to stay saved? These questions are the opposite of faith, and have the opposite effect from faith.
You know that I write generally, not always directed personally to you? So if anything I say offends, that was meant for someone else.
Much love!
All good and being candid and direct is actually comforting to me....
This subject of salvation can be confusing even to the most eager student in the study of the word. I know in scripture that the word 'saved' as in the past tense is used several times. I also see it used in the present tense, as 'being saved,' in the hope of realized salvation. I tend to see salvation as in the present tense. The 'saved' in the past tense means to me that the seed of the spirit of truth is now within us, and has germinated or ignited the new person within us. We are now as Christ. This then continues in the process of sanctification in real hope of full and realized salvation in the end.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I do believe that.
What I don't believe is that, categorically and without exception, every single person that has been raised with him will remain raised with him.
See, you're locked in this OSAS paradigm of thinking that makes it so you can't even understand my argument, let alone agree with it. Your OSAS paradigm makes it so you can ONLY see Colossians 3:1-4 as an unconditional prophecy instead of a promise...a promise that we know from the whole counsel of scripture is conditional on a person continuing to believe to the very end and not going back to unbelief.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
So you don't believe it. And round and round we go.
You assert that some who are raised with Him won't appear with Him because they stop being raised with Him. Such violence against the grammar!
The passage says, if you've been raised with Him, you will appear with Him. You say, if you've been raised with Him, maybe you will appear with Him.
You introduce doubt where God gives certainty. My trust is in God.
Much love!
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