HERESY?

[Aunty Jane]

I don't see any hatred in @Grailhunter .
Just let me say that Christians don't celebrate bunnies and eggs, but the resurrection of Jesus.

To the majority, Easter is a commercial occasion first, and a religious one second....if at all.
Like the trinity, there is no "Easter" in the Bible....not the word, nor the celebration. No one celebrated Easter until Christendom adopted it, like it did many other pagan celebrations. You can't make a pagan event into a Christian one by changing its name, and incorporating all the original traditions that went with it. God was there observing the originals....remember? If he hated them then, he hates them now, regardless of what you call them.

As to the JW, I know that if someone leaves that community, they are shunned by their very own family members, if the also happen to belong to that group.

And what do you really know about JW's? From hearsay? Do you judge on hearsay, or can you listen to both sides of an issue before you pass judgment? Would you like people to do that to you? Do you have first hand knowledge? I do....having been raised in Christendom, I know what they teach and I know where all their beliefs come from.....but the church did not teach me the truth about these things.

We do not shun anyone who has left our brotherhood unless they are guilty of some serious offense for which they are unrepentant. Pride prevents them from admitting their guilt and like the first humans will often blame someone else. Then like petulant children, they will then cry foul when they are disciplined.
We have a saying that 'green fruit, once it has become mature, does not go back to being green....it just goes rotten'.

We are told to....."remove the wicked one" (disfellowship them) from our brotherhood and this is exactly what we do with those who sin without repentance. No repentant person or one who simply stops associating is ever disfellowshipped....
1 Corinthians 5:9-13 is clear....
"I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people; 10 I did not at all mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the greedy and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to leave the world. 11 But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is a sexually immoral person, or a greedy person, or an idolater, or is verbally abusive, or habitually drunk, or a swindler—not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what business of mine is it to judge outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? 13 But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the evil person from among yourselves." (NASB)

Unlike Christendom, we do not tolerate those who sin and think that God doesn't see.....nor do we impose "grace" where it clearly does not apply.

2 John 10-11 reinforces how we should respond to those who want to cause dissension or division....
" If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds." (NASB)

It is because Christendom does not follow through on these commands that they are rife with those who think God can be fooled by appearances, or that those who take the lead are not authorized to judge when a wrongdoer is guilty of serious sin.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I would also refer the geneva , cept it has too many footnotes . Beware , however the newer versions .
As for russell nash his greek was bogus . He simply made it up to suit his own pre concieved ideals .
I notice that the much older bibles like KJV and GENEVA were very much the same and very accurate indeed .
As for some other translations , and i have read quite a few , i just cant recommned them . Though
i never accuse folks who read them of being from satan or condmened . I would just point them back to the KJV
for more accuracy .

Its a matter of knowing what the entirety of scripture teaches....if you do not know what it teaches, then it leaves you wide open to accept whatever interpretation is fed to you. You think 'fundies' have no teachers? We all have our preferred teachers...trouble is telling the "wheat" from the "weeds" requires knowledge as to what the whole Bible teaches. I was never taught anything much from the OT.....mostly all from the NT according to the interpretation given by whatever the denomination I was listening to. And I checked out a lot of them, only to find that they were all just different versions of the same lies.

If there was a trinity in scripture, God would have left us in no doubt....there would be no debating because it would have been clearly stated....it isn't. And the poor translation of the KJV shows it up more than most of the modern translations. No one speaks in archaic English anymore, not to mention how the English language has changed since it was produced, and how much more knowledge we have of the original languages now.

You can stick to that translation of you wish, but I prefer to understand what I read in the language I use every day.

Who the heck is russell nash?

 

[amigo de christo]

Its a matter of knowing what the entirety of scripture teaches....if you do not know what it teaches, then it leaves you wide open to accept whatever interpretation is fed to you. You think 'fundies' have no teachers? We all have our preferred teachers...trouble is telling the "wheat" from the "weeds" requires knowledge as to what the whole Bible teaches. I was never taught anything much from the OT.....mostly all from the NT according to the interpretation given by whatever the denomination I was listening to. And I checked out a lot of them, only to find that they were all just different versions of the same lies.

If there was a trinity in scripture, God would have left us in no doubt....there would be no debating because it would have been clearly stated....it isn't. And the poor translation of the KJV shows it up more than most of the modern translations. No one speaks in archaic English anymore, not to mention how the English language has changed since it was produced, and how much more knowledge we have of the original languages now.

You can stick to that translation of you wish, but I prefer to understand what I read in the language I use every day.

Who the heck is russell nash?

I got my names messed up . I meant to say beware of charles taze russell .
And beware him big time .

 

[Aunty Jane]

I got my names messed up . I meant to say beware of charles taze russell .
And beware him big time .

What do you know about Charles Russell that you didn’t hear from his opposers? He was part of the early stirrings of Jesus’ disciples who exposed the leadership of Christendom and their doctrines as fraudulent....just as Jesus had done with the religious leaders of his day. Were they ever going to say a good thing about him? They hated the fact that he knew his Bible inside and out and could debate any clergyman and wipe the floor with them.

That would be like asking the Pharisees what they thought of Jesus....

 

[BarneyFife]

A messenger??? Of what?

Are you contending that men DIDN'T see the Ark when they were making it???????

I know they saw it. I saw the cartoon. lol

 

[Grailhunter]

I have great respect for the Witnesses of God, great endearing people, one brother many decades ago set me in the right path by simply giving me a Bible and asking me to read it, a King James Bible, because he knew I was Catholic, that was many decades ago, he got me to question things that I started seeing didn’t coincide with Bible that was going on in my Church, I thank him for that and wish I knew where he was so I could thank him personally, and now here on this great forum I find a sister who is willing to teach me without forcing conversion but simply telling me to ask questions anytime I want answers, taking time out of her day to answer someone’s questions she’s never met, no passing judgments no hatred but only love in her heart, that dear sister of mine is Aunty Jane.

Who else on here has done that for me? Two people Aunty Jane and MatthewG, how great and Christian is that?

So to answer your question @Grailhunter, no I am not a Jehovah’s Witness, I am still learning and asking questions, but what a great compliment and honor to be called a Witness of the one true God Jehovah, I thank you for calling me that, but I don’t yet deserve such an honor, as I have not yet taken that step and my humility can not accept such an honor from a person who judges others and hates fellow Christians who do not agree with versions of made up scripture such as you Grailhunter.

But perhaps one day when I have asked enough questions and have learned enough of the Bible I might take that step and join fellow Christian’s who are Witnesses of the one true God Jehovah, if they would take me in when the time comes, for I have never felt such love than that of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and their willingness to teach the true word of God unadulterated, but what it says truthfully in the good Book, the word of God.

For there is only one God and one Son and that is God Jehovah and his only begotten Son our Savior Jesus Christ.

So duly note this Grailhunter, I thank you for calling me a Jehovah's Witness and thinking of me in such a kind way that you would think I was a Jehovah’s Witness, you have made me very happy and have made this day a great one for me.

Through Aunty Janes’s kindness and willingness to teach me the truth, I might just seek out a fellowship with Jehovah’s Witnesses, there is a Kingdom Hall not to far from me, so with Aunty Jane’s guidance and true Christian love and unbiased willingness to help her fellow Christians that seek the true word of God, such as myself and when I’m worthy enough I’ll take that step and bear the name Jehovah’s Witness and become one with them.

Explaining your beliefs to Christ on Judgement Day should be interesting.
False beliefs can send you to hell....You have to believe in Christ to be saved....what do you believe? I wrote a thread on nice people going to hell. Good luck.

 

[Grailhunter]

It is you who are twisting and weaving. What Christian holidays? Saturnalia or the birth of Tammuz on the winter solstice or Easter after the fertility Goddess with her bunny rabbits and eggs? It is people like you who are dangerous and spew hatred because one does not agree with you.

It does not matter if you agree with me. I am not the one that you are counting on to save you from hell and get you to heaven.....
no human can do that....only a God and you deny Him. That is why there is no salvation in the Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Explaining your beliefs to Christ on Judgement Day should be interesting.
False beliefs can send you to hell....You have to believe in Christ to be saved....what do you believe? I wrote a thread on nice people going to hell. Good luck.

There is no such place as hell....the devil invented that torture chamber to control people with fear.....he taught the media all they know....

 

[Aunty Jane]

It does not matter if you agree with me. I am not the one that you are counting on to save you from hell and get you to heaven.....
no human can do that....only a God and you deny Him. That is why there is no salvation in the Jehovah's Witnesses.

Its going to be interesting indeed on judgment day to see who it is that Jesus rejects as those he "never knew"...that would be those who lie about God and want to make him into some kind of fiendish, thee headed torturer......he sounds like something out of a horror movie....not the God whom Christ represented at all.

You have no say in who gets salvation Grailhunter.....for that I am grateful.

 

[Grailhunter]

Its going to be interesting indeed on judgment day to see who it is that Jesus rejects as those he "never knew"...that would be those who lie about God and want to make him into some kind of fiendish, thee headed torturer......he sounds like something out of a horror movie....not the God whom Christ represented at all.

You have no say in who gets salvation Grailhunter.....for that I am grateful.

I never said that I have a say in who will be saved. What I said in post 507 was....It does not matter if you agree with me. I am not the one that you are counting on to save you from hell and get you to heaven.....no human can do that....only a God and you deny Him. That is why there is no salvation in the Jehovah's Witnesses....But this is what Jehovah's Witnesses do....they twist the truth.

You are in the right thread though....how could a belief be more heretical than that of the Jehovah's Witnesses?
Denying the Deity of Christ.
The only Christian holiday they honor is the day Christ died.
There is no Kingdom Hall in the Bible they do not even call their assembly a church.
Denying the existence of Hell....
They try to twist the Greek language to suite their beliefs and I have never met a Jehovah's witness that had a good understanding of the Greek and that includes you. So funny, not even the basics....Jehovah's Witness....LOL....if they even knew a little Greek and Hebrew they would know that you cannot have a person, place, or thing in the Bible that starts with a "J" So they named their heresy out of ignorance of the language. The letter "J" or its pronunciation did not exist for another 1400 years after the Biblical era.

Common mistake but most Christians do not proclaim their expertise in Koine Greek or Hebrew. And that is the hilarity of it all, that they base their beliefs on the presumption that they know anything of the Greek. You want to go head to head with me on the Greek or the Hebrew or the Aramaic....I will take you to school. Probably do pretty good job with Latin.

There are beliefs out there that hurt people....that threaten their salvation but Jehovah Witnesses work at twisting the scriptures to deny the very basics of the Gospels and Christianity. So how could Christ know them when they stand in front of Him and deny Him.

 

[Cooper]

There is no such place as hell....the devil invented that torture chamber to control people with fear.....he taught the media all they know....

If hell does not exist, then the watchtower organisation needs to do another hatchet job and delete all mentions of it from their dribble bibble.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yes, it proved that I am right.

This thread is called heresy. Somebody is promoting heresy, right?

Opposing the trinity is not sinful. Where is your humility to promote a doctrine that is not in Scripture?

I am sorry my friend,

I can not have a discussion with you. You can not see your own flaws

When you learn some humility come talk to me, I think we could have some good bible disussion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What does the catholic church , adventist , JW , and many others have in common .
IF THEY ELDERS , PASTORS , LEADERS , WATCHTOWERS , ELLEN WHITE , and etc , says something they say AMEN thuS SAYETH THE LORD .
EVEN WHEN their elders teach contrary . THEY JUST KEEP FOLLOWING THE LEADER no matter what .
But as for me , ITS JESUS I FOLLOW and IN THE BIBLE I STAY . TESTING ALL MEN against BIBLE DOCTRINE .
I suggest we all do the same .

Sadly it is the state of the church today. We blindly follow our posters or priests or popes or whatever.

It was not perfect back when it was created. Look at all the epistles of paul and others and you can see the troubles and infighting and false teachings that ran rampant. And we want to think that 2000 years later we have figured it all out

Fact is, you go to any mainstream church service. It looks nothing like the church of Acts or the NT. It is an organized production that even has a guide of what is going to happen. The pastor stands with some priest uniform, or dressed in 300 dollar suits (how much are they today?) and thinking they are th only true church.

I grew up thinking if you were not baptist you were lost. Because that is what I was trained to believe. It is sad all the infighting between churches. The only message that matters up front is the gospel. The true church teaches the true gospel. While they may different in other areas.. they are all the body of Christ.

Then there are false churches. Who do not have the gospel. But teach a different gospel. One that was not taught in the NT. But was caught in the NT. The difference is the terms have changed, but it is the same old gospel of licentiousness or legalism which paul and the apostles taught in the NT.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There is no such place as hell....the devil invented that torture chamber to control people with fear.....he taught the media all they know....

So what is the lake of fire which was prepared for satan and his angels, where Jesus will cast all who have rejected him at the great white throne judgment?

You do believe in this do you not?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Its going to be interesting indeed on judgment day to see who it is that Jesus rejects as those he "never knew"...that would be those who lie about God and want to make him into some kind of fiendish, thee headed torturer......he sounds like something out of a horror movie....not the God whom Christ represented at all.

You have no say in who gets salvation Grailhunter.....for that I am grateful.

Actually Jesus will deny those who reject his eternal gift of salvation.

The trinity and what one believes will have no bearing on ones eternity.

Three headed monster? You better pray your right, if your not. Imagine how you just offended him.

God is a relational God. He created beings to be in a relationship with him. He created us in his image, and in his image as God bearers. The worst thing for us is to be alone.

So you want us to believe God for all eternity (how long has it been since he created the first angel? (Even if you think it was billions of years ago. How long is that compared to eternity? But a blink of the eye) alone. A relational being all by himself for billions of years.

yeah. Not buying it.

 

[JohnPaul]

Explaining your beliefs to Christ on Judgement Day should be interesting.
False beliefs can send you to hell....You have to believe in Christ to be saved....what do you believe? I wrote a thread on nice people going to hell. Good luck.

Luck is for those who don’t believe in God and Christ, I have the Grace of God and his only begotten son Jesus Christ, you can keep your luck, I don’t believe in such things but only in God and Christ.

 

[JohnPaul]

Its going to be interesting indeed on judgment day to see who it is that Jesus rejects as those he "never knew"...that would be those who lie about God and want to make him into some kind of fiendish, thee headed torturer......he sounds like something out of a horror movie....not the God whom Christ represented at all.

You have no say in who gets salvation Grailhunter.....for that I am grateful.

Praise be to God and Christ , Aunty Jane!

 

[Grailhunter]

Luck is for those who don’t believe in God and Christ, I have the Grace of God and his only begotten son Jesus Christ, you can keep your luck, I don’t believe in such things but only in God and Christ.

Was Christ just kidding about the Holy Spirit?

 

[amigo de christo]

What do you know about Charles Russell that you didn’t hear from his opposers? He was part of the early stirrings of Jesus’ disciples who exposed the leadership of Christendom and their doctrines as fraudulent....just as Jesus had done with the religious leaders of his day. Were they ever going to say a good thing about him? They hated the fact that he knew his Bible inside and out and could debate any clergyman and wipe the floor with them.

That would be like asking the Pharisees what they thought of Jesus....

So did joseph smith . So did others . They too exposed some bad stuff going on within the churches ,
and yet look at the dangerous direction they went into .
Even the false emergent church exposed quite well the deeds of the false prosperity gospel and yet LOOK
at the direction they took that church . Just because one can expose some evils , does not mean
they are on the right path . You have to LOOK at ALL the doctrine they teach .
Joseph smith was deadly dangerous . As were others .

 

[amigo de christo]

Sadly it is the state of the church today. We blindly follow our posters or priests or popes or whatever.

It was not perfect back when it was created. Look at all the epistles of paul and others and you can see the troubles and infighting and false teachings that ran rampant. And we want to think that 2000 years later we have figured it all out

Fact is, you go to any mainstream church service. It looks nothing like the church of Acts or the NT. It is an organized production that even has a guide of what is going to happen. The pastor stands with some priest uniform, or dressed in 300 dollar suits (how much are they today?) and thinking they are th only true church.

I grew up thinking if you were not baptist you were lost. Because that is what I was trained to believe. It is sad all the infighting between churches. The only message that matters up front is the gospel. The true church teaches the true gospel. While they may different in other areas.. they are all the body of Christ.

Then there are false churches. Who do not have the gospel. But teach a different gospel. One that was not taught in the NT. But was caught in the NT. The difference is the terms have changed, but it is the same old gospel of licentiousness or legalism which paul and the apostles taught in the NT.

Yes even in pauls time there were troubles . But look at the leadership they had . IT actually corrected .
Today the most all the leaders do not correct and in fact lead us into a seriously bad direction .
This is what i always examine , What do the LEADERS of any church teach . Cause if leaders are misleading
the church has ZERO hope for growth and only ends in destruction .
The bible is not hard to understand . There are still lambs scattered who do teach good and right things
and do follow the pattern that was given them .
IF the leaders are not fully seasoned , then the church is in dire trouble .
The simple message is not what denomination is one , but WHAT JESUS are they following .
Denominations are what paul would say or call , Divisions of men .
For while one says i am of apollos or etc , are ye not yet carnal and think as men .
The very simple answer is , GET back into the bible , let men learn it very well and be very very grounded in the scrips
BEFORE they even set foot up to lead or guide a church . BUT they aint doing that .
Instead they go to seminaries who teach a blend of truth and mens doctrines . IT AINT WORKING .
We must , MUST I SAY , get back into those bibles and fast .