I hear you say that. However, I also hear you use anti-cult rhetoric. That rhetoric is usually in my experience is the opposite of encouraging learning or growing closer to Christ. Just stating my observations.
And yes, I am born-again.
what irritates the crud out of me about "Christians" so-called
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And yes, I am born-again.
No, baptism is a work and an identification with Christ in His death and resurrection. No one is saved by baptism and it doesn't mean a thing unless you're born again.
The "destiny" of those who are born again is to inherit all creation, to be coinheritors with Christ.
Death in scripture is separation from God, so those cast out of the kingdom into outer darkness are considered dead, having been separated from Christ, yet they remain aware of their state. They cry and they weep and gnash their teeth. Such things are not typically what we see dead people doing, so their souls remain intact. The stuff about planes of existence has nothing to do with Christian doctrine, but is just new age mumbo jumbo.
The word "soul" is a translation of the Hebrew "nephesh", which simply means living being, but God defines living differently than we do.
There is nothing more important than being born again as far as doctrines go, but the largest Christian denomination on Earth somehow lost the doctrine and only recently started reincorporating it into their theology. However, the associated doctrines are problematic to them (being born again of the Holy Spirit negates any need of "sacraments" or of a priesthood to dispense them.)
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
michaelvpardo said:
Being born again means being given new life and becoming a new creation, through the indwelling of His Spirit, the seal of adoption as a child of God.[/Quote\]
Is it necessary, for everyone who is a baptized Christian, to be born again, to get eternal life? Those who are born again,
They go to heaven when resurrected? If so what is it they do in heaven?
Being born again means being given new life and becoming a new creation, through the indwelling of His Spirit, the seal of adoption as a child of God.[/Quote\]
Is it necessary, for everyone who is a baptized Christian, to be born again, to get eternal life? Those who are born again,
They go to heaven when resurrected? If so what is it they do in heaven?
No one "grows" closer to Christ unless they're born again. You may not like or agree with my statements, but they've been very effective for the last 26 years. Consequently, I believe that I'll continue to do and to say as His Spirit leads, and just continue to ignore those who don't get it.
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Actually, scripture doesn't specifically say that anyone goes to heaven. What scripture does say is that the inhabitants of heaven all come to earth ( the heavenly host, Christ, and all the saints.) I would assume that the saints have a place in order to return to Earth with Christ, but the redemption of our bodies doesn't occur until the 1st resurrection, and I know of only a few verses in one book (the Revelation) that makes any mention of the souls of the saints who have passed from this life. Those particular verses sound like symbolic visions, rather than literal descriptions. Taking them literally creates conflict with what the Apostle Paul said about " those who are asleep." Perhaps death is like a dream to the saints until the resurrection, but scripture just doesn't say much about the matter other than that Jesus was going to prepare a place for His disciples so that they could be where He is. That sounds like it would be in heaven, because that's where the Lord went, but that "place" had to be prepared by Christ and didn't previously exist.
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I see a big disconnect in your statement. But heh, you’re going to do what you’re going to do.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
The problem I have with what you say about death is, you're saying that those who are dead are still aware of their surroundings, that they still exist. I disagree with that definition of death. From what God said to Adam at Genesis 3:19, he said: "in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wasn't thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." Adam didn't exist before God took dust from the ground and formed him, so since God said, "for dust you are and to dust you will return," Adam returns to non-existence.
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
At John 14:1-3 Jesus said that in the house of his father are many dwelling places so Jesus told his Apostles that he was going away to prepare a place for them and that he would return to take them to that place that he prepared for them.
Seems to me this shows that Jesus went to heaven and that when he comes back all those who have died who belong to Jesus, who are born again, will be resurrected and be home in heaven with Jesus. So whether you believe this place existed or not, we do know that Jesus went to heaven and the place he prepared for his Apostles and disciples will be in heaven where he went.
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BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Michaelvpardo said:
The "destiny" of those who are born again is to inherit all creation, to be coinheritors with Christ.[/Quote\]
I agree that those who are born again will be co-inheritors with Jesus, they will be the kings, priests and judges in that Messianic kingdom and when resurrected they will get a resurrection like Jesus meaning just as Jesus was given immortality and inherited incorruption when resurrected so will these who are born again. This Messianic kingdom is a heavenly kingdom that Jesus has been made King of, and he will rule over Earth forever with these co-inheritors.
The "destiny" of those who are born again is to inherit all creation, to be coinheritors with Christ.[/Quote\]
I agree that those who are born again will be co-inheritors with Jesus, they will be the kings, priests and judges in that Messianic kingdom and when resurrected they will get a resurrection like Jesus meaning just as Jesus was given immortality and inherited incorruption when resurrected so will these who are born again. This Messianic kingdom is a heavenly kingdom that Jesus has been made King of, and he will rule over Earth forever with these co-inheritors.
Of course you would, and yes I will do what I'm going to do to the glory of our God, the Lord Jesus Christ, blessed forever. Amen.
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Good theory, but it disagrees with scripture. For example Zechariah chapter 14 and Isaiah 65 (these are by no means the only verses about the messianic kingdom on Earth).
Again, this sounds reasonable but disagrees with what scripture actually says regarding the second coming of our Lord.
The scriptures all agree with themselves or they wouldn't be in the Bible. That self agreement was required of them to be included in the canon of scripture. If you find passages that disagree with each other, you aren't understanding them.
Do you realize that "anti-cult" rhetoric has hurt many people (on both side) for many years?
Do you acknowledge those scars?
Or do you just dismiss it?
No, not at all. I think you can't possibly speak to the way anyone feels except yourself. That's your imagination and I don't acknowledge the imaginary. When did you become the spokesman for the deceived? When did God appoint you a judge of the saints? You may be a Christian, but you're about to go through a woodshed experience. I'm just telling you this, so you understand why.
Since God has appointed me as one of His "spiritual doctors", I'd like to ask you just one question to confirm my diagnosis.
The Apostle Paul wrote a few times about the role of women in the church and to the Corinthians he wrote:
34 Let your women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35 And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. 1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Is this instruction (and similar pastoral instructions) the inspired word of God, or was Paul just a misogynist ?
@michaelvpardo , if you believe that you are perfect and above reproach or any room for improvement, then that invalidates any conversation with you.
Interesting take on scripture, but I'm sure that Jesus would have disagreed.
31 But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” 33 And when the multitudes heard this, they were astonished at His teaching. Matthew 22:31-33
When Jesus spoke with Moses and Elijah on the "mount of transfiguration ", wasn't Moses deceased? Were he and Elijah nonexistent? Remember, Moses was a convicted murderer when he fled Egypt and became a recipient of God's grace. He wasn't by nature a sinless man or son of God as was Adam.
Thanks for your obfuscation, but you answered my question without being honest.
Your discipline will include a severe restriction on your ability to speak for 7 days and should begin soon, within the next week. I hope that the experience is not something painful, but God's discipline frequently is.
The Lord loves you, so you will know when this happens that His word is entirely true and trustworthy. Amen.
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