Perpetual virginity of Mary mother of God!

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post

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talk to Tertullian.

- Tertullian, 'On the Flesh of Christ' ch. 7, AD 203​

((continued, character limit...))


But the artifice of a temptation might have been thwarted thus: it might have happened that He knew that those whom they were announcing to be standing without, were in fact absent by the stress either of sickness, or of business, or a journey which He was at the time aware of. No one tempts (another) in a way in which he knows that he may have himself to bear the shame of the temptation. There being, then, no suitable occasion for a temptation, the announcement that His mother and His brethren had actually turned up recovers its naturalness. But there is some ground for thinking that Christ's answer denies His mother and brethren for the present, as even Apelles might learn. The Lord's brethren had not yet believed in Him. John 7:5 So is it contained in the Gospel which was published before Marcion's time; while there is at the same time a want of evidence of His mother's adherence to Him, although the Marthas and the other Marys were in constant attendance on Him. In this very passage indeed, their unbelief is evident. Jesus was teaching the way of life, preaching the kingdom of God and actively engaged in healing infirmities of body and soul; but all the while, while strangers were intent on Him, His very nearest relatives were absent. By and by they turn up, and keep outside; but they do not go in, because, forsooth, they set small store on that which was doing within; nor do they even wait, as if they had something which they could contribute more necessary than that which He was so earnestly doing; but they prefer to interrupt Him, and wish to call Him away from His great work. Now, I ask you, Apelles, or will you Marcion, please (to tell me), if you happened to be at a stage play, or had laid a wager on a foot race or a chariot race, and were called away by such a message, would you not have exclaimed, What are mother and brothers to me? And did not Christ, while preaching and manifesting God, fulfilling the law and the prophets, and scattering the darkness of the long preceding age, justly employ this same form of words, in order to strike the unbelief of those who stood outside, or to shake off the importunity of those who would call Him away from His work? If, however, He had meant to deny His own nativity, He would have found place, time, and means for expressing Himself very differently, and not in words which might be uttered by one who had both a mother and brothers. When denying one's parents in indignation, one does not deny their existence, but censures their faults. Besides, He gave others the preference; and since He shows their title to this favour — even because they listened to the word (of God) — He points out in what sense He denied His mother and His brethren. For in whatever sense He adopted as His own those who adhered to Him, in that did He deny as His those who kept aloof from Him. Christ also is wont to do to the utmost that which He enjoins on others. How strange, then, would it certainly have been, if, while he was teaching others not to esteem mother, or father, or brothers, as highly as the word of God, He were Himself to leave the word of God as soon as His mother and brethren were announced to Him! He denied His parents, then, in the sense in which He has taught us to deny ours — for God's work. But there is also another view of the case: in the abjured mother there is a figure of the synagogue, as well as of the Jews in the unbelieving brethren. In their person Israel remained outside, while the new disciples who kept close to Christ within, hearing and believing, represented the Church, which He called mother in a preferable sense and a worthier brotherhood, with the repudiation of the carnal relationship. It was in just the same sense, indeed, that He also replied to that exclamation (of a certain woman), not denying His mother's womb and paps, but designating those as more blessed who hear the word of God.

- Tertullian, 'On the Flesh of Christ' ch. 7, AD 203​
 

post

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how can the queen diminish the king
All that belongs to the king also belongs to the queen

also mary is His mother and parents have a right to the possessions of children

it is an ancient name for Ashereh = Eostare, wife of Ba'al: 'queen of heaven'

& it is blasphemy.
 

Mungo

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already discussed.
  1. clearly we are talking about sex. see v.5
  2. casting shade on the scripture doesn't make your case; it indicates you have no case
  3. casting shade on the scripture doesn't make your case; it indicates you have no case

why is it so important to you that Mary be in perpetual sin, defrauding her husband all the days of her earthly life?
Dodging again.
Your failure to answer shows you have no answer.
 

theefaith

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talk to Tertullian.

But whenever a dispute arises about the nativity, all who reject it as creating a presumption in favour of the reality of Christ's flesh, wilfully deny that God Himself was born, on the ground that He asked, Who is my mother, and who are my brethren? Let, therefore, Apelles hear what was our answer to Marcion in that little work, in which we challenged his own (favourite) gospel to the proof, even that the material circumstances of that remark (of the Lord's) should be considered. First of all, nobody would have told Him that His mother and brethren were standing outside, if he were not certain both that He had a mother and brethren, and that they were the very persons whom he was then announcing — who had either been known to him before, or were then and there discovered by him; although heretics have removed this passage from the gospel, because those who were admiring His doctrine said that His supposed father, Joseph the carpenter, and His mother Mary, and His brethren, and His sisters, were very well known to them. But it was with the view of tempting Him, that they had mentioned to Him a mother and brethren which He did not possess. The Scripture says nothing of this, although it is not in other instances silent when anything was done against Him by way of temptation. Behold, it says, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted Him. Luke 10:25 And in another passage: The Pharisees also came unto Him, tempting Him. Who was to prevent its being in this place also indicated that this was done with the view of tempting Him? I do not admit what you advance of your own apart from Scripture. Then there ought to be suggested some occasion for the temptation. What could they have thought to be in Him which required temptation? The question, to be sure, whether He had been born or not? For if this point were denied in His answer, it might come out on the announcement of a temptation. And yet no temptation, when aiming at the discovery of the point which prompts the temptation by its doubtfulness, falls upon one so abruptly, as not to be preceded by the question which compels the temptation while raising the doubt. Now, since the nativity of Christ had never come into question, how can you contend that they meant by their temptation to inquire about a point on which they had never raised a doubt? Besides, if He had to be tempted about His birth, this of course was not the proper way of doing it — by announcing those persons who, even on the supposition of His birth, might possibly not have been in existence. We have all been born, and yet all of us have not either brothers or mother. He might with more probability have had even a father than a mother, and uncles more likely than brothers. Thus is the temptation about His birth unsuitable, for it might have been contrived without any mention of either His mother or His brethren. It is clearly more credible that, being certain that He had both a mother and brothers, they tested His divinity rather than His nativity, whether, when within, He knew what was without; being tried by the untrue announcement of the presence of persons who were not present.

- Tertullian, 'On the Flesh of Christ' ch. 7, AD 203​

that does not make them the children of mary see below
 

theefaith

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Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.

Only God can be born of a Virgin-mother!


First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
 

amigo de christo

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Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Is Mary the mother of James?
If you mean the Blessed Virgin Mary then no. Her sister-in-law, Mary of Clopas, was the wife of Alphaeus (St. Joseph's brother), and mother of Simon, Joseph, and the apostles Judas Thaddeus, and James (the Less, brother of the Lord): Jesus' cousins.

The "sisters" of Jesus refer to women disciples

Salome, or Mary Salome, was the wife of Zebedee, and mother of apostles John (the beloved), and James (the greater).


Regarding Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, two of the four "brethren" are James and Judas of Alphaeus (cf. Mat. 10:2-3, Lk. 6:15-16, Act. 1:13). The third, Joseph, is identified in Mk. 15:40 as the brother of James of Alphaeus. The fourth, Simon, is identified in Mat. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 as the brother of Joseph, James, and Judas of Alphaeus. Therefore, all four are were the sons of Alphaeus, not St. Joseph and the Blessed Virgin Mary.

When Jesus was twelve they went up to Jerusalem, the holy family, Joseph, Mary, and Jesus. Where are the brothers and sisters?

Jesus on the cross gives His mother to John, why? Why not James or a brother? Perhaps the law of Moses requires a mother to be given to the next oldest son? Because he was an only Son!
Only begotten of the Father, only begotten of the Mother.

Only God can be born of a Virgin-mother!


First born does not imply a second born. An only child is still first born!
Worship GOD , cease from mens traditions
 
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theefaith

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it is an ancient name for Ashereh = Eostare, wife of Ba'al: 'queen of heaven'

& it is blasphemy.

then it cannot be Mary she was not born yet

Jesus is king and in the line of david the mother of the king is queen
Like bathsheba and Mary
Lk 1:33-34
 

amigo de christo

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then it cannot be Mary she was not born yet

Jesus is king and in the line of david the mother of the king is queen
Like bathsheba and Mary
Lk 1:33-34
Stop bowing before the CC and Kneel and bow before Christ . yall turned mary into an idol .
Just like israel after the flesh turned the rod of the golden serpent into an idol .
Stop heeding that church and its traditions . THEY turned everything good into an idol .
MARY IS BLESSED , but they turned it into an idol . WORSHIP GOD and not men .
 
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amigo de christo

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you can be married and sacrifice a lower good such as sex, (holy in itself) to bring our salvation a greater good
All TO JUSTIFY A LIE FROM THE CC . YALL WORSHIP ANGELS , MARY AND SAINTS . ALL OF WHICH
WOULD HAVE TOLD YOU WHAT THE ANGEL IN HEAVEN ITSELF TOLD JOHN . WORSHIP GOD ALONE .
YOU REFUSE TO HEAR THIS AND HOLD TO THE LIES OF MEN .
 
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