Revelation Chapter 9 - The Destruction of Physical Jerusalem, the Temple, the Law - End of an age!

[Cassandra]

Very interesting. You've studied this a lot, clearly. Have you written a book on it, or have you published it in any way?

Have you?

 

[APAK]

Very interesting. You've studied this a lot, clearly. Have you written a book on it, or have you published it in any way?

I'm still incorporating this information and more into my Book, a bible Companion of sorts, of the revisionist type of course. It is added into the individual scriptures sections as commentaries and in their appropriate topical studies section. I've been seriously writing this book for a few years now. I have over 540 pages, and counting.

Thanks for asking..

 

[APAK]

Me? No.

I would say I'm a mere student of it. I'm kind of obsessed with it, really.



That's a lot of work. It would be very interesting to get a copy of it when it is done.

You sure can, when I get it done. In fact I may give you a final draft copy to review and even redline when I get to that point. It is taking more time that I originally planned. Just don't hold your breath for too long waiting...;)

 

[Truth7t7]

1. Already happened- see Jesus in KJV-Daniel 9:27 and Mark 13:14.
2. Will happen- but no secret rapture. See item #3 below.
3. Will happen- suddenly,a simultaneous event of both redemption and total destruction. See Luke 17:29

Daniel 9:27 hasn't been fulfilled as you claim above, as you completely ignore the word "Consummation" as if it's non-existent before your eyes

This "Future" figure will be present on earth making (Abomination & Desolation) to the (Consummation) or (The Ultimate End) "Future" Event(s) Unfulfilled

Merriam-Webster
Definition of consummation

1: the act of consummating the consummation of a contract by mutual signature specifically : the consummating of a marriage
2: the ultimate end

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[Truth7t7]

There will be a 'grand gathering' a soul reaping and harvest for sure into the New Jerusalem for some, and for many, eternal 'separation' from the Lamb and the Ancient of Days. This event will not be a human conceptualized or visualization of some grand and glorious day on earth, filled with lots of seats like bleachers with pop corn, and snacks, for all to see the main attraction on the big screen or TV, or in the sky either. Lightning arrives and leaves very fast!

You can label me as you wish even though I do not fit into a particular brand or school of eschatological thought, believe me.
Then I must have been to some degree a Preterist before I was shown the word. Funny how that is in life and how folks react to you when you WILL not conform to their ways and what they really want you to become. A form of insecurity I might say. It's not up to you I'm afraid to say what I am or not. Use the label for you and your mind, not mine.

Me, being 'Full Blown,' as if everything happened by 70 AD, hardly! Now you being overblown in thought, and emotional, most definitely.

I read scripture and pray on it many times. God would not have supplied incomplete information to Daniel via a messenger to get the reader to create an extra week or 7 years far flung in the future. And for this subject, the entire 490 years was completed by 70 AD.

I do not do creative scripture interpretations where ever possible, as many folks thrive on it in eschatological studies and in Christological studies etc...

Have a good day and great new year!

You mention the words "Eternal Separation"?

Do you deny a literal eternal lake of fire, in eternal torment as seen below?

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[Truth7t7]

I enjoy your reaction Truth, not in a sarcastic way, in an expected way and amusing way.

There will be a 'grand gathering' a soul reaping and harvest for sure into the New Jerusalem for some, and for many, eternal 'separation' from the Lamb and the Ancient of Days. This event will not be a human conceptualized or visualization of some grand and glorious day on earth, filled with lots of seats like bleachers with pop corn, and snacks, for all to see the main attraction on the big screen or TV, or in the sky either. Lightning arrives and leaves very fast!

You can label me as you wish even though I do not fit into a particular brand or school of eschatological thought, believe me.
Then I must have been to some degree a Preterist before I was shown the word. Funny how that is in life and how folks react to you when you WILL not conform to their ways and what they really want you to become. A form of insecurity I might say. It's not up to you I'm afraid to say what I am or not. Use the label for you and your mind, not mine.

Me, being 'Full Blown,' as if everything happened by 70 AD, hardly! Now you being overblown in thought, and emotional, most definitely.

I read scripture and pray on it many times. God would not have supplied incomplete information to Daniel via a messenger to get the reader to create an extra week or 7 years far flung in the future. And for this subject, the entire 490 years was completed by 70 AD.

I do not do creative scripture interpretations where ever possible, as many folks thrive on it in eschatological studies and in Christological studies etc...

Have a good day and great new year!

Not only are you Preterist in 70AD fulfillment, but you deny a future literal human man will be seen as (The Antichrist) that being Daniel's Little Horn, Paul's Man Of Sin, John's The Beast, please correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[Truth7t7]

When one's mind is full to the brim with other things, there is no more room for more of anything, even the "light" of the Truth.

You deny the word "Consummation" as seen in Daniel 9:37 above in post #69 "Why"?

 

[APAK]

Not only are you Preterist in 70AD fulfillment, but you deny a future literal human man will be seen as (The Antichrist) that being Daniel's Little Horn, Paul's Man Of Sin, John's The Beast, please correct me if I'm wrong?

Of course I DENY all you say here prosecutor, judge and jury; as you think I'm being prosecuted sitting in your court of law. This is so funny Truth, I might have to giggle a bit before I continue.

There has been humans that have been famous anti-Christs in the past and there will be others in the future. And yes, there was one in particular that John and Daniel and others had in mind. And then your understanding of the 'little horn' is also all skewed up too. You need to look at the words of John and Christ to learn about the term Anti-Christ as a type of spirit within a person, not found in the school of skewed up vain men that could not even find Daniel's 70th week of weeks occurring in the past, his last 7 years of the 490 - so they created their own, a new and extra 7 years and flung it into the distant future, right before they think Christ returns. Quite a stretch of the imagination don't you think? Scripture also covers the definition and even points to the actual 'little horn' you are querying about here.

Look, let me make it easy for you, to save you much more frustration and bother. I'm not a pre-millennialist at all, this is not scriptural to me at all. I'm more as an a-millennialist.

 

[Truth7t7]

Of course I DENY all you say here prosecutor, judge and jury; as you think I'm being prosecuted sitting in your court of law. This is so funny Truth, I might have to giggle a bit before I continue.

There has been humans that have been famous anti-Christs in the past and there will be others in the future. And yes, there was one in particular that John and Daniel and others had in mind. And then your understanding of the 'little horn' is also all skewed up too. You need to look at the words of John and Christ to learn about the term Anti-Christ as a type of spirit within a person, not found in the school of skewed up vain men that could not even find Daniel's 70th week of weeks occurring in the past, his last 7 years of the 490 - so they created their own, a new and extra 7 years and flung it into the distant future, right before they think Christ returns. Quite a stretch of the imagination don't you think? Scripture also covers the definition and even points to the actual 'little horn' you are querying about here.

Look, let me make it easy for you, to save you much more frustration and bother. I'm not a pre-millennialist at all, this is not scriptural to me at all. I'm more as an a-millennialist.

Im not your judge and jury, I'll smile at you a bit, were having a friendly duscussion, I dont see jail time for your beliefs in the bear future, do you live in China or North Korea?

Your Preterist in 70AD fulfillment of many events, and you wiggled around he "Future" Daniel's Little Hirn, Paul's Man Of Sin, John's The Beast, all the same future bad guy, and yes it my opinion you deny this literal human man is future

Yes I also would be in the camp if Ahmillennialist, there will be no future 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth, it's not found in scripture

 

[APAK]

You mention the words "Eternal Separation"?

Do you deny a literal eternal lake of fire, in eternal torment as seen below?

Revelation 14:9-11KJV
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

You'll see my answer when I get to either a new thread for Revelation 14, or if this scripture is references in another thread of mine, and I will notify you when I discuss it.

I would just add that your 'eternal torment' can be viewed literally, as physical or spiritual or both, or symbolic for another form of justice and punishment of body or spirit or both.

 

[APAK]

Im not your judge and jury, I'll smile at you a bit, were having a friendly duscussion, I dont see jail time for your beliefs in the bear future, do you live in China or North Korea?

Your Preterist in 70AD fulfillment of many events, and you wiggled around he "Future" Daniel's Little Hirn, Paul's Man Of Sin, John's The Beast, all the same future bad guy, and yes it my opinion you deny this literal human man is future

Yes I also would be in the camp if Ahmillennialist, there will be no future 1,000 year Kingdom on this earth, it's not found in scripture

WE are in this symbolic 1000 year reign with Christ today, in his Kingdom Truth!

 

[Truth7t7]

You'll see my answer when I get to either a new thread for Revelation 14, or if this scripture is references in another thread of mine, and I will notify you when I discuss it.

I would just add that your 'eternal torment' can be viewed literally, as physical or spiritual or both, or symbolic for another form of justice and punishment of body or spirit or both.

As it stands, you deny a future place of eternal torment in the lake of fire

No large explanation is needed, just a simple yes/no

 

[Truth7t7]

WE are in this symbolic 1000 year reign with Christ today, in his Kingdom Truth!

I also believe the 1,000 years are symbolic and taking place currently, as that seen in Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lords spiritual realm, no literal time

 

[APAK]

I also believe the 1,000 years are symbolic and taking place currently, as that seen in Revelation 20:1-6 is 100% in the Lords spiritual realm, no literal time

Here's some more added uncanny information concerning a few verses of Rev 9..that should have already been added to the thread.

Visualization of Roman artillery around 69 AD. A larger ballista in the middle that fired 6.55 kg (about 20lbs) stones. On the sides, scorpions, small military machines firing bullets, reminiscent of medieval bolts, and with fire and smoke.

Rev 9: 17-19
17 The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur. 18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. 19 The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury.

Read especially the bolded words of the verses and then look at the embedded picture of the scorpion (they were actually called this name when translated from Latin) catapult cross-bows as they were called. Some of these scorpions had iron shafts to allow flaming bolts to be fired out like missiles or bullets => Ballista in Latin

This description resembles the Roman catapult springing forward into the air from its rear or tail, flaming and smoking iron balls on fire to weaken stone walls and buildings, kill many people in a line from a distance of 800 feet (effective range)or cause fires over the walls.

These scorpion Ballista, a fixed-tripod crossbow, even fired bolts of up to 7 feet long along with balls of stone or iron.

These plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur from these types of machines/weapons caused directly or indirectly 1/3 of the people with the City to perish.

@Earburner ....I do not think these cited verses mean firing out COVID vaccine bolts at people from a distance under the command of General Fauci ...LOL..LOL

 

[Earburner]

Daniel 9:27KJV
27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And you think that I'm not getting it??
I have asked you to pay attention to the word "he" in verse 27, but you continually select the wrong choice of the only two selections there are. Which is it, in the selections below:
1. "He" being Jesus.
2. "He" being Titus of Rome.
Or is it
3. "He" being anyone you can dream up!

To select any answer other than item #1, will keep you in the religious circus of Church-ianity's Fantasy Land

 

[Truth7t7]

Here's some more added uncanny information concerning a few verses of Rev 9..that should have already been added to the thread.

View attachment 19883

Visualization of Roman artillery around 69 AD. A larger ballista in the middle that fired 6.55 kg (about 20lbs) stones. On the sides, scorpions, small military machines firing bullets, reminiscent of medieval bolts, and with fire and smoke.

Rev 9: 17-19
17 The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur. 18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. 19 The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury.

Read especially the bolded words of the verses and then look at the embedded picture of the scorpion (they were actually called this name when translated from Latin) catapult cross-bows as they were called. Some of these scorpions had iron shafts to allow flaming bolts to be fired out like missiles or bullets => Ballista in Latin

This description resembles the Roman catapult springing forward into the air from its rear or tail, flaming and smoking iron balls on fire to weaken stone walls and buildings, kill many people in a line from a distance of 800 feet (effective range)or cause fires over the walls.

These scorpion Ballista, a fixed-tripod crossbow, even fired bolts of up to 7 feet long along with balls of stone or iron.

These plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur from these types of machines/weapons caused directly or indirectly 1/3 of the people with the City to perish.

@Earburner ....I do not think these cited verses mean firing out COVID vaccine bolts at people from a distance under the command of General Fauci ...LOL..LOL

I disagree with your interpretation of the scorpions in Revelation 9 being Roman weapons/artillery

Revelation 9 in men being tormented for 5 months, seeking death as it flees, will take place literally in a future 3.5 year great tribulation

 

[Truth7t7]

And you think that I'm not getting it??
I have asked you to pay attention to the word "he" in verse 27, but you continually select the wrong choice of the only two selections there are. Which is it, in the selections below:
1. "He" being Jesus.
2. "He" being Titus of Rome.
Or is it
3. "He" being anyone you can dream up!

To select any answer other than item #1, will keep you in the religious circus of Church-ianity's Fantasy Land

If one disagrees with the burner they are in churchianity fantasy land, smiles!

As stated several times the "he" in Daniel 9:27 isnt Jesus as you claim, because Jesus dosent make abomination and desolations as the "he" is seen doing "DUH"

 

[Earburner]

@Earburner ....I do not think these cited verses mean firing out COVID vaccine bolts at people from a distance under the command of General Fauci ...LOL..LOL

Really? You are LOL??
You evidently misunderstand what I commented to you. There are two separate visions in KJV Revelation 9:1-11 and 9:12-21.
You are not quoting from the KJV. Therefore you are wandering around in Church-ianity's Fantasy Land of the Tares.

Of Rev. 9, The former is present, and the latter is still future. The latter alludes to a specific date in time, of which 1/3 of men are eliminated in one day. Today, we do have those weapons of mass destruction, able to cause death to many in one single day.

The former is a GLOBAL event, spoken by the words of the Image of the Beast, speaking/saying: "Pandemic" , and then through it's dictates from it's W.H.O. causes all people to jump to attention and follow its line of reasoning of what to do.
1. Did you forget, or you simply don't know, who they are that made the Image of the Beast,
2. and who it is that persuades them to do so?
Answer:
1. The people of the world.
2. The 2 horned lamb like Beast, that speaks like a dragon (deceptively), hurling fire from heaven, coercing all to comply with the dictates of the Image of the Beast, who is the UN.

As I had said: "your historical views are SEVERE", and such views will captivate you, and then entrap you into the box of the myopic.

 

[APAK]

Really? You are LOL??
You evidently misunderstand what I commented to you. There are two separate visions in KJV Revelation 9:1-11 and 9:12-21.
You are not quoting from the KJV. Therefore you are wandering around in Church-ianity's Fantasy Land of the Tares.

Of Rev. 9, The former is present, and the latter is still future. The latter alludes to a specific date in time, of which 1/3 of men are eliminated in one day. Today, we do have those weapons of mass destruction, able to cause death to many in one single day.

The former is a GLOBAL event, spoken by the words of the Image of the Beast, speaking/saying: "Pandemic" , and then through it's dictates from it's W.H.O. causes all people to jump to attention and follow its line of reasoning of what to do.
1. Did you forget, or you simply don't know, who they are that made the Image of the Beast,
2. and who it is that persuades them to do so?
Answer:
1. The people of the world.
2. The 2 horned lamb like Beast, that speaks like a dragon (deceptively), hurling fire from heaven, coercing all to comply with the dictates of the Image of the Beast, who is the UN.

As I had said: "your historical views are SEVERE", and such views will captivate you, and then entrap you into the box of the myopic.

EB, I of course disagree with your assessment although some of the verses after verse 11, especially the last one of Rev 9. might have dual purposes and apply today.

Verse 21: Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts.

I need more research to do this in this area.

Where and how do you imagine 1/3 of the what people or who are these people, dying in one day, in our future? From nuke exchange over the globe? Scripture does not even say a 1/3 of the people in Jerusalem dies in one day, so where is one day coming from? Your imagination?
Verse 18 says, 18 A third of mankind (those in Jerusalem) was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. Over 5-6 months, at least.

In his writings according to Josephus’ estimated 1/3 of the people (symbol-mankind) in Jerusalem were killed over this period. This only confirms this scripture of verse 18.

 

[Earburner]

Where and how do you imagine 1/3 of the what people or who are these people, dying in one day, in our future? From nuke exchange over the globe? Scripture does not even say a 1/3 of the people in Jerusalem dies in one day, so where is one day coming from? Your imagination?
Verse 18 says, 18 A third of mankind (those in Jerusalem) was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. Over 5-6 months, at least.

KJV Rev. 9[18] By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
[19] For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
There is nothing there saying anything of 5-6 months in that prophecy, but it does provide the specifics for a literal one day event in future time.
Now, what most people don't connect to, is the manifestation of the four angels, that are bound in the region of the Euphrates River, having a single purpose. And they ARE "bound" to that purpose!
There are four countries that border the Euphrates. They are- Syria, Turkey, Iraq and Iran.