"Salvation" is the gift of Eternal Life - it's FOREVER.

[Renniks]

Sorry I don't believe you.

You don’t believe me .... ABOUT WHAT?[/QUOTE]
I don't believe you are without sin. Now, today.

 

[Renniks]

John said they were never of us.

No he said they were not of us... not that they never were.
That just means they fell away because of unbelief. Why should I take that to mean they never believed?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Which he was, because he fell away. But that doesn't mean he was never saved.

I disagree, this is not far into his ministry. Judas was an unbeliever from the begining.

He was following King Jesus, Not savior jesus, nice he figured out he was not going to be king Jesus, he turned him in.

he was also a theif he had been holding money from the beginning.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Lol, and why would be the point of a warning if they could not be like them?

They could be like then many were.

Many also tried to achieve eternal life by the law.

The book of Hebrews is to the hebrew people. Not all of them were saved.

 

[Taken]

John says whoever sins has never seen or known God.

And? That is the applicable to every natural born person...and remains the same, less one is freely agreeable for God to MAKE changes IN them.
:)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No he said they were not of us... not that they never were.
That just means they fell away because of unbelief. Why should I take that to mean they never believed?

19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And? That is the applicable to every natural born person...and remains the same, less one is freely agreeable for God to MAKE changes IN them.
:)

Nope

He said we, we included himself. If he claimed to be without sin, he said flat out he would be decieved.

A child of God would not need to confess their sin if they were sinless.

 

[Renniks]

They could be like then many were.

Many also tried to achieve eternal life by the law.

The book of Hebrews is to the hebrew people. Not all of them were saved.

It says it was to brothers and sisters. Why dance around the obvious implication?

 

[Renniks]

19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

Ok? I don't see a " never" in there.
It's about false teachers. Lots of false teachers were once genuine believers.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It says it was to brothers and sisters. Why dance around the obvious implication?

You assume he means in christ. There is nothing that says that.

He was talking to the whole of the hebrew population. It is foolish to think they were all saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ok? I don't see a " never" in there.
It's about false teachers. Lots of false teachers were once genuine believers.

They did not belong to us.

He did nto say they STOPPED belonging to us

 

[GodsGrace]

i think this is where we are supposed to begin. When i was really young, i used to question this all the time. How can there be so many different beliefs when we all use the same Bible. Its a good question, and i think too often we blindly follow something due to “we grew up with this.”

Sorry LL, been away a while.
In post 99 you said that the 5 points were to make soteriology more understandable.
I believe you said that Calvin wrote his commentary (or maybe the Institutes) to make salvation economy easier to understand.

I'm replying to you for two reasons:
1. I find Calvin's teachings very confusing and not easy to understand at all.
2. I left a denomination. This requires NOT blindly following what "I grew up with".

It is Calvin's 5 points (not attributed to him, BTW) that state the saints will persevere.
The words of Jesus and of the N.T. writers do not uphold this belief of his.

 

[GodsGrace]

19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

I'm kind of tired of this whole OSAS thing.
But I'd like to bring your attention to the fact the when John wrote those words you posted above, He was on in years and gnosticism had already invaded the church and he was very worried about these gnostics affecting Christians and Christianity with heretical teachings.

John meant the gnostics in speaking of those that went out because they did not belong.
In fact, they DID NOT belong and were heretical followers that could not accept the truth.

Please look into this...this verse is so misused.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ok? I don't see a " never" in there.
It's about false teachers. Lots of false teachers were once genuine believers.

Please see my post no. 373...

 

[Taken]

I don't believe you are without sin. Now, today.

Well that is big of you!
Seeing how, YOU claim YOU don’t believe me...FOR WHAT YOU SAID FOR ME!

TWISTED! underhanded!

post #359

 

[Oceanprayers]

From what I've read , God's gift of faith and salvation is from God.
God knows all things. Wouldn't he know who are his genuine elect? And who are not?
And can't we think we're the elect and be wrong?

 

[GEN2REV]

dont say that to cooper and gen2rev. They both think they’re saints and never ever sin now.

More Ad Hominem, slandering nonsense because you have had your doctrine destroyed repeatedly in this thread alone. Chin up, Sinner. You have lots of mistaken, misled friends to pat you on the back and encourage you in your false hope. Blindfolded teachers of the blindfolded headed straight for the ditch.

 

[Taken]

Nope

He said we, we included himself. If he claimed to be without sin, he said flat out he would be decieved.

A child of God would not need to confess their sin if they were sinless.

What are you talking about? Who is claiming they are sinless?

 

[GEN2REV]

From what I've read , God's gift of faith and salvation is from God.
God knows all things. Wouldn't he know who are his genuine elect? And who are not?
And can't we think we're the elect and be wrong?

And if somebody thinks they are elect, they will drop their guard and not keep watch of themselves and those around them.

 

[GodsGrace]

From what I've read , God's gift of faith and salvation is from God.
God knows all things. Wouldn't he know who are his genuine elect? And who are not?
And can't we think we're the elect and be wrong?

How could someone THINK they are one of the elect and not be?