Church Bashing

[Lambano]

There it is again! So that we might become…
Is that for here and now?

If my flesh is already crucified, why do I fulfill its lusts? Murder in my heart, unforgiveness in my heart, angers, resentments?

I'm going to have to give you an answer that isn't what you wanted to hear, but I believe it to be true.

2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. (1 John 3:2)

You will be God's daughter, and the Holy Spirit will be a down payment on what you will be when Jesus comes back. He'll help you. You'll get better. But your flesh is still wriggling on that cross, and you will still have to fight the urge to murder people again. But it's good to see you hungering and thirsting for Righteousness. The promise is you will be satisfied.

 

[BarneyFife]

What does God say?

Lots of stuff.

 

[Nancy]

Praying for you Nancy!

Much love!

❤

 

[Nancy]

Aw, Nancy. Sometimes I wish I could reach through the computer screen and give someone a hug.

Me too brother, me too, thank you. I'm a broken record I think, lol. I'm glad you are here

 

[Lambano]

Me too brother, me too, thank you. I'm a broken record I think, lol. I'm glad you are here

Aw. Thanks, Nancy. I'm touched. (And the feeling is mutual!)

 

[Wrangler]

So whose debt was he paying off if not his own?

There is an implied premise in your question that is flawed. Why do you get the idea that the only reason one can go to prison is due to debt when you KNOW that is untrue?

 

[dev553344]

I can't believe this thread is still going:

 

[quietthinker]

Huh, interesting...but then, wouldn't that mean that he is paying for his own salvation? Or, would they be the souls preached to in Hell?
I thought He was preaching to those in Abrahams bosom, telling them that "It is done"...He has over come the world! Amen Then escorts them to "Paradise"
Just wondering as, Jesus preaching in Hell always had me seeing both sides as a "could be" sort of thing.
Interesting brother.

The traditional view of this matter is a fantastical cobbled mess and has no semblance of anything truthful.
Why? because metaphors are misunderstood and twisted to a point of not recognising intent, even so far as seeing the intent as a message from the evil one.

 

[marks]

Still sounds like dispensationalism. Also a distinction without a difference, maybe?

You know something changed at at the cross, right?

 

[amadeus]

Your question is fully answered here . . .

Ephesians 5:29-32 KJV
29) For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
30) For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
31) For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32) This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

We are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones.

Much love!

Who is included in the "we" of Eph 5:30? Are we fully subjected to the Head of the Body at all times?
If not, what kind of disorder is that? Is there disorder in the Body upon which Jesus to be the Head?

If we are ever quenching the Holy Spirit how are we even connected to the Head? What happens to a body part when deprived of blood?
What kind of disorder is that? More like stagnation because the body part is starved?

Are we already members of the Body... now?
What is time to God?
What is time to us?
What if our time to be a member is when we have endured with Him already to the end of our time?

Time in scripture is a strange thing for men who are unable in their carnality to conceive of existence without it. Ask @ScottA to clarify time for you.

Remember what Jesus said here:

"And Jesus saith unto him, The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." Matt 8:20

There was no Body of Christ when Jesus said that... no place to lay his head. Until all of the parts are ready, is there a Body? If we are still sinning at all, are we already part of the Body of Christ? Jesus, the Head is flawless. Until any part of His Body is flawless can it be a part? Will it even fit into his Body?

"But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love." Eph 4:15-16

 

[Enoch111]

Are we already members of the Body... now?

Yes. All your questions have already been answered in the Bible.

 

[Nancy]

The traditional view of this matter is a fantastical cobbled mess and has no semblance of anything truthful.
Why? because metaphors are misunderstood and twisted to a point of not recognising intent, even so far as seeing the intent as a message from the evil one.

Ok Q.T. (cutie) LOL!
Just how would YOU explain the intent of this "metaphor"?

 

[marks]

Who is included in the "we" of Eph 5:30? Are we fully subjected to the Head of the Body at all times?

Romans 6:3 KJV
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Much love!

 

[quietthinker]

Well, I leave it to God. Until then, I maintain my hope that pay the last farthing and be beaten with more stripes or fewer stripes does not mean annihilation.
I hope because it never says outer darkness is cast into the lake of fire.

what greater distancing from God can there be when wickedness along with those who love it are consumed. Surely that must qualify as outer darkness!

 

[amadeus]

Yes. All your questions have already been answered in the Bible.

Simple...huh?
When and where is that resting place for the Head of the Body? The Head is ready, but the other parts of the Body?

 

[quietthinker]

Ok Q.T. (cutie) LOL!
Just how would YOU explain the intent of this "metaphor"?

wellll poppet....at this point I don't know (and strange as it might sound, I did have a handle on it at one stage) what to do with the verse in 1 Peter 3:19-20. It does not however give me a basis for the fantastical interpretations put forward. When I am clear on this we will talk again.

 

[amadeus]

Romans 6:3 KJV
Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

Much love!

When we are quenching the Spirit are we then in Jesus? Is he then in us? If we ever sin at all any more are we fully dead then with him? Is that 'old man' of us really finally and completely dead?

Kind of like the number of people who made into the Promised Land from out of the wilderness, right?

Can we now say with Jesus: "And now I am no more in the world,..." John 17:11

Has our world of temptations passed away as did that of Jesus?

"And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:17

Are we now doing only the will of God?

 

[BarneyFife]

If my flesh is already crucified, why do I fulfill its lusts? Murder in my heart, unforgiveness in my heart, angers, resentments?

Sanctification is the work of a lifetime, my friend.

1 Thessalonians 5:23 KJV: And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God's word has literal, creative power. But it doesn't always appear to materialize instantly to us. This is all perfectly biblical, of course.

Isaiah 55:11 KJV: So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

When God speaks or His Word is spoken or believed, It goes out on a mission and It doesn't come back until It has achieved what He intends.

He knows how long it's going to take for Him to perfect you (make you able to stand in the judgment) and He's got you covered. We're stubborn, but The LORD knows all about it. He has thousands of ways to provide for us of which we know nothing. No worries. It's okay to be duly concerned, though.

 

[BarneyFife]

If you walk in the Spirit, you will not do the works of the flesh.

Walking in the Spirit stops sin in it's tracks. I believe our difficulty is remaining in that Spirit walk. A contrary thing happens - external threat, internal desire, or fear, or whatever it may be - and if we maintain our trusting in God, we will maintain our walking in the Spirit. But then we hear a flesh-thought in our minds, and fail to stop it, and instead let it continue, and grow stronger.

What we don't realize is that this is the mind of the flesh, a man long gone, but his patterns remain. So then, the check engine light comes on, and I twinge over it, the smallest fear response, it's not Spirit, it's fleshy. I can either remind myself God is caring for my needs, and I don't have to worry about a thing. That's taking the thought captive to the obedience of Christ. I'm serving Christ, not the fears of my flesh.

Or I can let the next thought come in . . . what will this cost, and can I afford it? Is my car going to leave me stranded? Will I even have a car? What will I do to get around?? And the flesh comes in like a flood.

I think the common Christian experience is to live in these fleshy thoughts much of the time, failing to realize that fully trusting Jesus brings a very different inner life.

Much love!

Incredible stuff!

 

[quietthinker]

Why not read prophetic narrative as exactly that?

Jesus would be 3 days in the grave, and people will be marked. Why is that so hard to accept?

Much love!

We read either to our enlightenment and liberation or to a darkened understanding and imprisonment.
I'm reminded of Jesus words 'Therefore consider carefully how you listen. Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what they think they have will be taken from them.' Luke 8:18