Church Bashing

[Lambano]

I'm going to get in a bike ride while there's still daylight. Time to break the spell again.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Don't mix up your prescriptions.

In the one case, the child will die without the medicine. In the case we are talking about, the child must suffer "for a little while" until the Great Physician determines the time is right, and trust that He will ultimately deliver on His promises. I don't know why this is so, but the witness of the scriptures and the great crowd of faithful believers is that this is indeed so.

13 All these died in faith, without receiving the promises, but having seen and welcomed them from a distance, and having confessed that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. (Hebrews 11:13)

Huh…? You think not receiving the promises there means never being made righteous in this life? It goes to great length to describe what they received and were able to do through trust. It is through a mans trust that God counts him as righteous.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I see them as your personal opportunities to trust Him, and to do as He did..."Father forgive them..." open their spiritual eyes, bless them...
When I ask for opportunities to grow my faith, takes a bit to recognize certain trials AS opportunities! Fail in some and victorious is others. I'm not going to ask Him this for awhile
You heard Him! You overcame through Christ!

Lol. You’ve reminded me of Teresa. I’m sure I tell this too much, but…she was traveling to one of the houses she oversaw and she was sick with a cold and cranky already and then the carriage got stuck. I think I remember correctly, her falling in the mud and rain as she tried to get it unstuck. Wet, sick, freezing and miserable she said something like, really Lord?? And He said to her, this is how I treat all my friends. To which she replied, yes Lord, and that is why You have so few of them!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Earlier in this thread, we had a visit from another member who believes all the theological system, but because he has no power over some besetting sin, he cannot cling to Jesus in faith. Did you see him?

Ive been thinking more about this. It honestly makes no sense to me. You trusted Him to save you, but because you sin you then stop trusting Him to finish what He began?
Israel in the desert trusted God to save them, so they did as He said and stepped out under a huge, towering, suspended wall of water. So far so good. Then, when He let them become very thirsty to see what they would do, they stopped trusting Him. Because you thirst for righteousness, you will then stop trusting?

 

[amadeus]

We are reconciled to God not on our own righteousness, but by Jesus' righteousness.

Does the need for reconciliation mean that prior to their disobedience, Adam and Eve were in harmony with God? Once they had disobeyed, the harmony was gone... and a reconciliation was necessary in order to move again toward God.

Adam and Eve disobeyed and were then out of sync with God. They were dead and, of course, He was Alive. They had lost Life itself, so they did not have the price of their own redemption, the price of reharmonizing with God, the means to reconcile themselves once more with God.

Because in losing their harmony they lost Life itself, they could not regain what they had lost. A sacrifice was needed, a sacrifice of something Alive... but who was worthy? Who was Alive? Not one man in the eyes of God!

Who but God could it? Why did He set things up that way in the first place?

"And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of." Gen 22:2

"And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?
And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together." Gen 22:7-8

But we have to receive the reconciliation...

Did God through His Son do for us something we, being dead, could not do for ourselves? We were dead and dead sacrifices were and are unacceptable! But then once a person has taken hold of the Life, which Jesus made accessible through the Holy Spirit what does that person need to do?

See what Paul wrote here:

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service." Rom 12:1

If we are not Alive, as God counts being Alive, is any sacrifice by us meaningful to God? What would it, the sacrifice of a dead man, accomplish?

 

[Nancy]

Lol. You’ve reminded me of Teresa. I’m sure I tell this too much, but…she was traveling to one of the houses she oversaw and she was sick with a cold and cranky already and then the carriage got stuck. I think I remember correctly, her falling in the mud and rain as she tried to get it unstuck. Wet, sick, freezing and miserable she said something like, really Lord?? And He said to her, this is how I treat all my friends. To which she replied, yes Lord, and that is why You have so few of them!

Ahahaha!! Are you talking about Teresa of Avilla? Must say, have asked the same of Him

 

[Lambano]

Ive been thinking more about this. It honestly makes no sense to me. You trusted Him to save you, but because you sin you then stop trusting Him to finish what He began?
Israel in the desert trusted God to save them, so they did as He said and stepped out under a huge, towering, suspended wall of water. So far so good. Then, when He let them become very thirsty to see what they would do, they stopped trusting Him. Because you thirst for righteousness, you will then stop trusting?

The logic of the system goes, "if He is going to save me, He will also regenerate my soul so that I desire to lead a righteous life. I do not have the strength to overcome this sin; and in fact, no longer even have the desire to overcome this sin; therefore, He never did intend to save me." There's more to this situation, but out of privacy concerns (and resisting my own urge to gossip), I should say no more.

 

[BarneyFife]

Ive even thanked God for for them since He used them to bring invaluable good to me! They meant it for my bad but He meant it for my great good!
You almost can’t believe you just thanked God for them like…did that just come out of my mouth and heart???

There is a young man in the Prayer threads asking for prayer to keep him from falling once again into some grievous sin. I can relate. I promised to pray for him (and kept that promise). How does he access this power to overcome temptation? What shall I tell him?

Tell him this. :)

 

[Nancy]

Ive been thinking more about this. It honestly makes no sense to me. You trusted Him to save you, but because you sin you then stop trusting Him to finish what He began?
Israel in the desert trusted God to save them, so they did as He said and stepped out under a huge, towering, suspended wall of water. So far so good. Then, when He let them become very thirsty to see what they would do, they stopped trusting Him. Because you thirst for righteousness, you will then stop trusting?

Yes, some trust Him for their salvation yet, not for their needs on this earth. I pray that everyone on this site who falls into this category will learn to trust Him no matter what is befalling them. It's easy to say, but it is true. Man, don't we put ourselves through so much unnecessary pain!
Forty years walking in circles because of impatients, and lack of FAITH/TRUST.

 

[BarneyFife]

our hope is not in our sanctification but in him who sanctifies.....we have a saviour!

AMEN--PRAISE THE LORD!!!

 

[BarneyFife]

Yes, some trust Him for their salvation yet, not for their needs on this earth. I pray that everyone on this site who falls into this category will learn to trust Him no matter what is befalling them. It's easy to say, but it is true. Man, don't we put ourselves through so much unnecessary pain!
Forty years walking in circles because of inpatient's, and lack of FAITH/TRUST.

AMEN--PRAISE THE LORD!!!

 

[Nancy]

It’s only your first sentence or two I disagree with. I really like everything else you’ve said.
I do not think a man who receives a down payment of the Holy Spirit who then struggles with sin on the inside of his cup is still walking in darkness. I think he has begun on the godly path and is learning about the righteousness that will come to him through trust.

The Holy Spirit shines a very bright light on our sin...sin we never realized as "sin".

 

[Lambano]

Huh…? You think not receiving the promises there means never being made righteous in this life? It goes to great length to describe what they received and were able to do through trust. It is through a mans trust that God counts him as righteous.

Agreed, but being declared forensically righteous is different from having the power to actually WALK in righteousness, i.e. in proper relationship with God and Man.

The referenced Hebrews quote talks about continuing to trust God, even when we don't receive what was promised in this life. Now, we are exhorted to overcome the "flesh", but where is it promised that we have the power to make it just "go away"? The promise is that we will be like Jesus when He appears.

 

[Nancy]

Agreed, but being declared forensically righteous is different from having the power to actually WALK in righteousness, i.e. in proper relationship with God and Man.

We are exhorted to overcome the "flesh", but where is it promised that we have the power to make it just "go away"?

"We are exhorted to overcome the "flesh", but where is it promised that we have the power to make it just "go away"

Hi brother,
This is the question of the centuries!! Cannot see that our old "nature" or inclinations just, poof, disappear. There are things that will be with us still, for the rest of our lives (IMO) yet, God has seen fit to grace us with "My grace is sufficient for you"! Amen.

The very thing that seemed impossible in my life, which kept me from Him for too long, became possible!

I think the key here is to realize that our "true" identity is in Christ alone.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The logic of the system goes, "if He is going to save me, He will also regenerate my soul so that I desire to lead a righteous life.

If he wasn’t desiring to be righteous/thirsting for righteousness, he wouldn’t care at all…

 

[Lambano]

"We are exhorted to overcome the "flesh", but where is it promised that we have the power to make it just "go away"

Hi brother,
This is the question of the centuries!! Cannot see that our old "nature" or inclinations just, poof, disappear. There are things that will be with us still, for the rest of our lives (IMO) yet, God has seen fit to grace us with "My grace is sufficient for you"! Amen.

The very thing that seemed impossible in my life, which kept me from Him for too long, became possible!

I think the key here is to realize that our "true" identity is in Christ alone.

Hi, Sis.
What frustrating is that God DOES heal some people, and the sin DOES just "go away". Others fight addictions and such 'til the day they die. Then they have to hear wagging tongues say, "If you'd just rest in God more", "Or if you'd just do this and that"...

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The logic of the system goes, "if He is going to save me, He will also regenerate my soul so that I desire to lead a righteous life. I do not have the strength to overcome this sin; and in fact, no longer even have the desire to overcome this sin; therefore, He never did intend to save me." There's more to this situation, but out of privacy concerns (and resisting my own urge to gossip), I should say no more.

It sounds more like a man having a fit at God - if He won’t give me what I want right now, I will not sit here and learn the obedience of trust by what I suffer.

 

[Lambano]

If he wasn’t desiring to be righteous/thirsting for righteousness, he wouldn’t care at all…

He just wants to avoid going to Hell. I asked him if he would care if he knew he was going to be annihilated, but that's not an option in his theological system.

 

[Lambano]

It sounds more like a man having a fit at God - if He won’t give me what I want right now, I will not sit here and learn the obedience of trust.

It's more, "Show me that you love me so I can trust you."

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Agreed, but being declared forensically righteous is different from having the power to actually WALK in righteousness, i.e. in proper relationship with God and Man.

The referenced Hebrews quote talks about continuing to trust God, even when we don't receive what was promised in this life. Now, we are exhorted to overcome the "flesh", but where is it promised that we have the power to make it just "go away"? The promise is that we will be like Jesus when He appears.

We learn the obedience of unwavering trust through what we suffer. The obedience of trust, when learned with much less wavering, leads to what the man desires.

 

[Nancy]

Hi, Sis.
What frustrating is that God DOES heal some people, and the sin DOES just "go away". Others fight addictions and such 'til the day they die. Then they have to hear wagging tongues say, "If you'd just rest in God more", "Or if you'd just do this and that"...

As far as healing in general goes, I believe that He is responsible for ALL healing, whether it be from doctors or divine intervention. Not all are healed! Look at Timothy, Paul said to take a little wine for his frequent stomach ailments instead of water...why didn't he just heal him??! Jesus does not heal everyone, some are called to live in faith THROUGH their pain. And, if you notice, most all of His healings in the word He says "now, go and sin no more" ... I don't know if they had sinned after the healing...?

And, yes, I have heard it all too, lol. "You just don't have the faith" You are this/that. Get's old but is expected Love those who think you are not even saved unless you speak gobbly gook! (sry tongue speakers, LOVE YOU :) ) Doesn't our bible say that "NOT ALL SPEAK IN TOUNGES"???!!!

God is faithful to keep me away from my "besetting" sin (which has actually turned out to be the LEAST of them!) and that He would keep it form me...He has been so faithful!