Church Bashing

[marks]

Two problems:

1. When a child of God expects to never fall down again, and then does, it can be devastating to his faith. Did Father pull the power? Maybe I was a bastard child all along.

2. When a child of God has success in walking, the Evil One makes him proud in his heart, and he thinks himself better than those children who do fall, and they lose their empathy. We've both seen this many, many times, including on this board. "Lord, I thank you that you did not make me like this tax collector..."

So long as we remain in corrupt flesh we will remain in conflict with said flesh. But in trusting in Jesus' having reconciled us to God, that can be overcome. What remains is our consistency in trusting Him.

Thoughts of condemnation or dread of loss of salvation are not faith, not Spirit, are fleshy.

Much love!

 

[Lambano]

You're not? I am!

Lord grant me patience - and I want it RIGHT NOW!

 

[marks]

I love this verse so much. Oh my gosh I love it so much!
We celebrate in all our trials because they result finally in endurance of trust, no more faltering in trust and stumbling. (We have learned the firm obedience of trust by the trials we suffer.) And that strong endurance of trust results in proven character, a fixed heart and mind. When we see this, we truly grab hope because we see nothing is impossible for God. Our trusting and hoping to be fixed did not end in disappointment.

Amen!!!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

He knows God exists. The issue is trust.

Okay. The same as with everyone. I don’t like to tell a man what to pray, I really, really don’t…but I would point out the passage where the man says, Lord, I DO believe, help my unbelief!

 

[marks]

Don’t focus on the outside of the cup. It’s not where the problem stems from. It’s what comes from inside of you that defiles you. For instance, fussing over if smoking cigarettes is or isn’t sin or if not going to a church on sundays is a sin is a bit strange when anger in my heart is murder. And surely stopping murdering is more important and where the focus should be.
Jesus said it’s quite possible for the outside of your cup to be clean while the inside is filthy. But if the inside is clean, the outside just will be as well. But there you go, no one can clean the inside, so you have to trust God for it.
So my counsel is to not focus on the outside of your cup and to understand that it is what is inside you proceeding to the outside that is the true problem. And there is no way to get at that except by trusting God for it.

I agree with this exactly. Yes.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Divisions caused by false doctrine are the destructive dividers to avoid, by dividing ourselves from them.

Unity for unity's sake without truth is the unity forced down the throats of the righteous.

Nimrod was the first great unifier of the church at Babel.

How in the world do you know what my church is like?

If you are an example of it, I'll pass on visiting it.

Jeez. This would have been a phenomenally good post if not for the last two sentences.

 

[Lambano]

you would have to give me the verses that led you to believe why - but if you want to be perfect, sell all you have and follow Me - is not for now.

I gave you that yesterday - did you forget already? And I put so much effort into our conversation!

2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. (1 John 3:2)

 

[marks]

Agreed, but being declared forensically righteous is different from having the power to actually WALK in righteousness, i.e. in proper relationship with God and Man.

What about being recreated a righteous being?

Much love!

 

[marks]

"We are exhorted to overcome the "flesh", but where is it promised that we have the power to make it just "go away"

Hi brother,
This is the question of the centuries!! Cannot see that our old "nature" or inclinations just, poof, disappear. There are things that will be with us still, for the rest of our lives (IMO) yet, God has seen fit to grace us with "My grace is sufficient for you"! Amen.

The very thing that seemed impossible in my life, which kept me from Him for too long, became possible!

I think the key here is to realize that our "true" identity is in Christ alone.

The flesh is our actual flesh, and we remain living in it as long as we are alive in this world.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

For example, does it mean, you can give in to the temptation and trust in God's forgiveness?

Does he have a choice? I mean, he’s already said he can’t stop it. I wonder if other believers are beating him up and making him think he has to stop sinning of his own power rather than waiting for God to fix Him.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

The flesh is our actual flesh, and we remain living in it as long as we are alive in this world.

Much love!

Ah, no, I don’t think so. I don’t see our flesh, skin, veins, muscles as what is meant by flesh.

 

[Nancy]

Trust and faith first, then

Does he have a choice? I mean, he’s already said he can’t stop it. I wonder if other believers are beating him up and making him think he has to stop sinning of his own power rather than waiting for God to fix Him.

Seems most unbelievers think they have to clean themselves up before coming to Christ and, it is just the opposite. He is bigger than our sin and really does "meet u right where we are at".

 

[Lambano]

Does he have a choice? I mean, he’s already said he can’t stop it. I wonder if other believers are beating him up and making him think he has to stop sinning of his own power rather than waiting for God to fix Him.

He wants to stop, and I think he knows he doesn't have the power in himself or he wouldn't have asked for prayer.

You can check out the Prayer forum, it'll be one of the recent ones.

 

[marks]

Ah, no, I don’t think so. I don’t see our flesh, skin, veins, muscles as what is meant by flesh.

I've realized that of our past conversations, but look at how flesh and body appear as referring both to our physical body, and where our sin resides.

The Greek words themselves of course mean that, sarx, flesh, soma, body. "Body of sin", "the body of our humiliation". The corruptible puts on incorruptibility.

It helps to know what the real fight is.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I gave you that yesterday - did you forget already? And I put so much effort into our conversation!

2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. (1 John 3:2)

Oh…uh…did you read the REST of John 3…?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I've realized that of our past conversations, but look at how flesh and body appear as referring both to our physical body, and where our sin resides.

The Greek words themselves of course mean that, sarx, flesh, soma, body. "Body of sin", "the body of our humiliation". The corruptible puts on incorruptibility.

It helps to know what the real fight is.

Much love!

Ummm….okay marks. Pick up your cross and nail your actual body to it.

 

[Lambano]

Oh…uh…did you read the REST of John 3…?

You mean the part about, 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us?* Or the parts that exhort us to avoid sin because our identity is as Children of God and Children of God aren't supposed to sin.

*I'm cheating; that's chapter 1.

 

[Nancy]

Ummm….okay marks. Pick up your cross and nail your actual body to it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You mean the part about, 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us? Or the parts that exhort us to avoid sin because our identity is as Children of God and Children of God aren't supposed to sin?

Or maybe these parts?
Anyone who continues to live in him will not sin. But anyone who keeps on sinning does not know him or understand who he is.

Dear children, don’t let anyone deceive you about this: When people do what is right, it shows that they are righteous, even as Christ is righteous. 8 But when people keep on sinning, it shows that they belong to the devil, who has been sinning since the beginning. But the Son of God came to destroy the works of the devil. 9 Those who have been born into God’s family do not make a practice of sinning, because God’s life is in them. So they can’t keep on sinning, because they are children of God. 10 So now we can tell who are children of God and who are children of the devil. Anyone who does not live righteously and does not love other believers does not belong to God.

14 If we love our brothers and sisters who are believers, it proves that we have passed from death to life. But a person who has no love is still dead. 15 Anyone who hates another brother or sister is really a murderer at heart. And you know that murderers don’t have eternal life within them.

Gosh, it’s so harsh to me now when I read it. It never appeared as harsh to me before I stopped murdering in my heart…

 

[robert derrick]

Jeez. This would have been a phenomenally good post if not for the last two sentences.

Yeah, Jeez, just got to bash the bashers of bashers.

So, it makes you feel bad I'll pass on the basher's church?

What do you care? Oh, I know, we're not supposed to say things like that.

That's called bashing.

I'll pass on your church too.