Church Bashing

[Lambano]

I owe my employer about 10 hours of my undivided attention. You guys please, love one another, even as Jesus has loved you.

 

[marks]

Sometimes (no, usually) it's not clear whether it's me trying to be good and loving in my own strength, or God working love and goodness through me. How do I tell?

For me, it seems, the more I'm serving in God's love, the less I'm thinking about myself.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I've had this kind of thing happen to me many times and, in my experience, there is no better way to deal with it than to just leave it with the LORD. After all, since we're doing everything as to the LORD, there's no loss involved, really.

The earth and the cattle on a thousand hills belong to Him. I've had to learn to think of absolutely everything I possess (right down to the bathroom tissue) as on loan from God. I'm just a steward.

I also find I have to pray daily for the grace to keep me mindful that forgiveness is not merely an event, but also an essential attitude, a part of the lifestyle of a Christian. I often hear Christians testify that they are having a hard time forgiving someone and that they've prayed so hard for the ability to do it. Christ had no time to kneel and struggle with His Father for the ability to forgive when the High Priest's guard struck Him in the hall of the Sanhedrin.

If we earnestly pray for a generally forgiving heart (for we truly need it), instead of focusing on those who have wronged us (not that we shouldn't pray for them), God will surely answer, and we will have an experience as we've never had, a closeness to the LORD we never thought possible.

Of course, all of this is relative: It doesn't happen overnight, usually, and there is no limit to the amount of this spirit we may receive. If we "only believe" (Mark 5:36). And, of course, I know I am preaching to the choir here, but for the benefit of others who might be struggling, I thought it should be voiced. :)


Exodus 32:32 KJV: Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin--; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.

Luke 23:34 KJV: Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

Forgiving others is to me a matter of trust just the same. I think there comes a time to say, Stop trying, and do. I think as much as possible we forgive others from the moment we begin to percieve some offence.

Jesus asked His Father to forgive His murderers as they were in the act of murdering him.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Oh you don’t have to watch for it. You’ll absolutely know the oddest thing you’ve ever experienced has happened.

Well, depending on what else you've experienced, but yes, there won't be a need to question, only to see life begin to unfold in a very different way.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Pray earnestly, as never before, claiming the promises of God for him. Show God that you're willing to make a fool of yourself if need be by telling Him that you expect Him to come down and keep His word and heal this man, even if He chooses not to do it at this time. Get serious with Him; tell Him that the enemy should not be allowed to stand by and taunt Christ for what is happening to this man (Is this not a brand plucked out of the fire?). Stuff like that there. Meanwhile, be his best friend. Plead with God to both will and to work in you both to do of His good pleasure. :)

Don't be afraid He loves for His children to entreat Him. Beg like a little kid at a grocery store. Need I say more?

I think God calls us to be completely authentic with Him. No need to make a big fuss if we don't actually care, but we can let ourselves care as much as the Holy Spirit within us, and make the biggest fuss we want!

Much love!

 

[marks]

Until that happens, am I stuck with trying to be good and loving on my own power?

NO. Absolutely not!

My experience with what I've come to call an "elevated walk", when God put to rest my flesh, and without effort I simply walked in the Spirit because that's just how I woke up in the morning, and that never changed throughout the day, this time showed me the reality of sanctification.

Not long after I asked Him to show me how to communicate this to others, it stopped. I know the moment it started, and I know the moment it stopped.

And I've since learned that this is the life I live at all times which I am fully trusting in the efficacy of Jesus' death in reconciling me to God.

I'm fully reconciled to God, so I know there's no separation. There being no separation, no condemnation even for the continued works of the flesh, those works of the flesh have no power. When I being to think that my sins will again separate me from God, I deny the power of the cross, and fall from grace, and then I'm on my own steam.

With effort and vigilance I can improve my behavior, and struggle day by day to sin less. But by compete trusting that I'm truly and fully reconciled to God, forever, that pressure to sin just goes away, the Holy Spirit fills me with His fruit.

For me, it was an exhilarating and miraculous experience. But I've also come to see it as remedial. If I were just trusting Him, it wouldn't have been needed. The point was to to teach me the reality of His power. And also to build me up for what was soon to come, a trial so deep and dark, without that, I think I may have died from the hopelessness. It's been a turbulent life. But out of it, I've learned what is flesh and what is spirit, and how to trust Him.

Disclaimer: I'm still a mixed bag . . . but not like I was.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Only part of you died. I don't like all this death talk; I want to talk about new life. (Which I think I can see.)

8 Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him (Romans 6:8)

If we are not able to reckon ourselves dead indeed unto sin, how shall we be able to reckon ourselves alive unto God?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Yep, I think I may be looking at his philosophical anecdote a little too subjectively. Forget I said anything. Write it off to the rambling of an old man in his dotage.

I got it. Like in "Oceans", "Your sovereign hand will be my guide."

Do we trust God sufficiently that we know what His will for us is, because we can see what is happening in our lives? "Giving thanks for all things"? Because we know everything will work for our good.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Thank you. I had hoped you had a "Conquer your sin in 21 days" program or something to tap the power you described. But it doesn't work that way, and I do know better.

The fact is, your sin is already conquered, only, be it to you according to your faith. And that's where we're waiting on God, to lead us into more fruitful/consistent faith.

There is no sin we cannot avoid through active communion with God, made available by the righteousness of Christ. We can fix our minds on Jesus, on things above, and not sin, until our minds return to things below, to fears and guilts and lusts and so on.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I did examine what you said and I determined it was nonsense. If the flesh has to die and you insist flesh there means your physical body, then pick up your cross and nail your actual body to it.

Again though that's based on an unbiblical idea of what the Bible means when it says death.

So that the body is dead because of sin, but you have to change it to, the body will be dead because of sin.

We were crucified with Christ, and are dead to our flesh. Or does it mean, we will be dead to our flesh? Where is the power?

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

If we were dead we wouldn’t have to pick up our cross and follow. And you will never convince a man struggling with sin that he is dead to sin. He will just roll his eyes at you as preposterous and walk away.

 

[marks]

If we were dead we wouldn’t have to pick up our cross and follow. And you will never convince a man struggling with sin that he is dead to sin. He will just roll his eyes at you as preposterous and walk away.

And he will walk away holding to his sin in his lack of faith.

Stop struggling, start trusting, and find abundant life.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

And he will walk away holding to his sin in his lack of faith.

Stop struggling, start trusting, and find abundant life.

Much love!

That’s better!
But we are pretty dumb. Our dumbness can’t be overstated.

 

[Nancy]

Sometimes (no, usually) it's not clear whether it's me trying to be good and loving in my own strength, or God working love and goodness through me. How do I tell?

That's a tough one. If it's genuine then I think we can know it is from the heart, hence through Christ? Satan tries to make us "proud" of our humility...and it can have us going in circles! I can remember the day it all changed for me. I was at someone's house and their tv was on, the Cops show was on and while watching, something changed in me that day...instead of feeling contempt towards the ones being arrested, I felt compassion and pity on them. Was not like that most of my life as, I was like the world in wanting to hang 'em all! They deserve it! Haha! God did me a total 360 there...same with beggars and homeless, He has given me a heart for them all now. So, it HAS to be Him in, at least in this case. I used to tell beggars to "get a job"! And, all puffed up cause "I" ALWAYS worked and deserved all "I" wanted, yeah, gave myself the glory. Wow I really was not at all very compassionate back then. Fast forward a decade or so and, He has shown me some pretty ugly things about my self and how critical, judgmental and self righteous I was. Hard to look at when He shines His light into our hearts.
God is so faithful :)

 

[marks]

If we were dead we wouldn’t have to

You don't seem to believe this is true then . . .

Romans 6:6-11 KJV
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Are we or are we not dead with Christ? Actually dead and freed from sin, and actually alive to God? Or is that all describing in detail something not actually true?

Much love!

 

[BarneyFife]

If we were dead we wouldn’t have to pick up our cross and follow. And you will never convince a man struggling with sin that he is dead to sin. He will just roll his eyes at you as preposterous and walk away.

But isn't picking up our cross and following Jesus in a different vein of illustration than being dead to sin and alive unto Christ? God is trying to call us up to be seated with Christ in Heavenly places so He can teach us things that no man can utter, is He not? Surely, many are the devices to which He will have to resort. :)

 

[marks]

And you will never convince a man struggling with sin that he is dead to sin. He will just roll his eyes at you as preposterous and walk away.

Actually, as I think about this, I can testify from experience, this is not true. This man, having become convinced of being dead to sin though still struggling, learned how to stop the struggle and stop sinning.

Much love!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

You don't seem to believe this is true then . . .

Romans 6:6-11 KJV
6) Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7) For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8) Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9) Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10) For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11) Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Are we or are we not dead with Christ? Actually dead and freed from sin, and actually alive to God? Or is that all describing in detail something not actually true?

Much love!

I just don’t understand how you read that and come up with: I am dead to sin even as I sin. I just don’t understand how you read that and think, oh…so if I’m already dead I don’t have to pick up my cross at all! I’m already dead. It’s like you read and don’t see any progression at all in what you read but think it all instantly is you.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Actually, as I think about this, I can testify from experience, this is not true. This man, having become convinced of being dead to sin though still struggling, learned how to stop the struggle and stop sinning.

Much love!

I guess your mind works complete reverse to mine.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But isn't picking up our cross and following Jesus in a different vein of illustration than being dead to sin and alive unto Christ? God is trying to call us up to be seated with Christ in Heavenly places so He can teach us things that no man can utter, is He not? Surely, many are the devices to which He will have to resort. :)

I don’t see it as a different vein…I’m so practical that I can’t see it any other way than I was not dead to sin while still sinning. Dead men can’t sin. Now I think I am dead to sin, but before? I just can’t think something I vividly and painfully see is not so. My brain doesn’t work that way. My brain says, oh…I still sin in my heart and mind, therefore I must not be dead to sin yet. I mean…I can self examine.