farouk
Well-Known Member
"I will never leave you nor forsake you" caught my eye....Thank you Farouk, and which one did you like best?
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"I will never leave you nor forsake you" caught my eye....Thank you Farouk, and which one did you like best?
Ah yes...that was Episkopos and yes, good verse!"I will never leave you nor forsake you" caught my eye....
I wondered about that. I’ve thought that just because I’m aware of no sin does not mean there are not some deeply embedded in me that I can’t see but God can. It’s still a great relief though to not be tortured. And it’s also wonderful to receive understanding of scripture in a solidly firm way rather than working so hard to try to understand in such cloudiness.
Would love to be there too Jen, but I think at this point Id need a lobotomy! lol.
The church that God is building is being built on two levels; the first being based on the common faith (Titus 1:4) and the other based on the faith required for the “high calling” which is in Christ (Phil.3:14). Some might suggest that this smacks of the “clergy-laity” split that has afflicted the church throughout history. However, the clergy system is both artificial and a usurpation of God’s order of
spiritual shepherding.
In the church of God, there is to be a spiritual and holy oversight by men who are led by the Spirit. Few indeed will enter into the resurrection power of eternal life while in these mortal bodies. In the church of God, we come together to flow in eternal unity. We gather together in order to fulfill the requirement of actually being the church of God, that is, to be ruled over by the Lord. We are to be led by men who are at least led by the Spirit if indeed there are not any who have a continuous walk in God’s presence. The prophets that God has gifted to be in a given city must come to an agreement together. They are not to form different cliques based on personal ministries, as we see in the popular sectarian denominations. It is wrong to label the entities that are based on personal ministries as churches. Ministries are there to support the church, not the other way around. In the end, there is but one ministry, the ministry of Jesus Christ.
Under whose authority are we truly committing ourselves in what we call the church? What is bringing people together? Is it certain teachings that tickle the ears, or the presence and power of God?
“That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that you also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.” (1 John 1:3)
What John is describing in the above verse is an invitation to fellowship with people who are already in fellowship with God. The early church was a place that formed disciples. There was an apprenticeship tradition established in the younger believers towards the deeper fellowship of a direct connection with God. The leadership of the church walked with God and nurtured that walk in the lives of others. At least, it did so in earlier times. But a man can’t lead another into a relationship that he doesn’t have himself.
The Nicolaitans, on the other hand, rule by the will of men through the carnal and religious power of the outer man (Rev. 2:15). The clergy system is a counterfeit to the legitimate rule in the church by holy men who are approved and empowered by God.
God doesn’t choose what men choose. We must determine whose church it will be. If it is to be the church of God, then it must be by the direction of God. Men can have no say in it. Christ is the Head of every man individually, but He is also the Head of His church corporately. The divine order is for men to stand in a place of authority in His name. But this requires the approval and anointing of God. No amount of education nor training from men can qualify a man to have authority over the faith of another (2 Cor. 1:24). In any case, spiritual leadership is by example not by lording it over others in the church. The love of God is what nurtures faith and faithfulness in all its members.
The people of God are brought together in an eternal moment by the living word. If we receive the prophet in the name of a prophet, then we will get the same consideration from God as the prophet does (Matt. 10:41). If we disregard the work of the Lord in any member of His body, then we are disregarding Him. If we don’t recognize those who are led by His Spirit then we will suffer spiritual famine.
“Behold, the days come, says the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:” (Amos 8:11)
If we wish to partake of the life and power that is afforded to the church, then we need to turn towards God once again in deep repentance. But even before that, we will need to consider the distance that the modern church has strayed from the apostolic tradition and authority that comes from abiding in the risen Christ.
@Episkopos my question is concerning even coming here on the forum. One thing I’ve for sure learned from being here is there are so many different perspectives and ideas. how can you ever know what you are following or buying into. I’m beginning to wonder if it is not basing all of your Hope in what others tell you is the right way but learning what is the right for yourself? Concerning shepherding what of “there shall be one fold, and one shepherd? John 10:16
The very opposite is true. The only biblical description of a walk in the Spirit is that it is not natural or a common occurrence. The way of Christ is hard and narrow not easy and wide. You should check again the street signs where you are walking.'Walking in and out' of the Spirit is not scriptural, and gives the strong impression that one has a choice to come and go as we please whether to choose to be in the Spirit or not, and for however long we want. This is potentially dangerous doctrine if not clearly defined!
Also, as deduced from your words, that we decide to set the pace of our movement is Christ is also unscriptural. We are not the one to decide these things if we are truly saved; even living in the flesh that is unreliable. Once we are in the Spirit of his Son, it then decides according to his plan what is set for our lives, as Christ's spirit is in us to ensure these 'good' works of the Spirit are completed in us for the glory of God.
Paul says in Galatians 5:16
(Greek NT TR) λεγω δε πνευματι περιπατειτε και επιθυμιαν σαρκος ου μη τελεσητε
(Greek NT TR+) λεγωG3004 V-PAI-1S δεG1161 CONJ πνευματιG4151 N-DSN περιπατειτεG4043 V-PAM-2P καιG2532 CONJ επιθυμιανG1939 N-ASF σαρκοςG4561 N-GSF ουG3756 PRT-N μηG3361 PRT-N τελεσητεG5055 V-AAS-2P
(ISV) So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will never fulfill the desires of the flesh.
(GNB) What I say is this: let the Spirit direct your lives, and you will not satisfy the desires of the human nature.
(Williams) I mean this: Practice living by the Spirit and then by no means will you gratify the cravings of your lower nature.
περιπατειτε => to be occupied, to live, to walk (about) with or in, to intimately follow, to habitually conduct as a lifestyle being in and always 'wearing' the Spirit as we live and breathe.
The goal is to become mature in the Spirit and thus to become one with the Spirit and always be walking or moving as one Spirit. This is not completely obtainable in this sin-biased mortal body of ours unless God possesses and overrides our spirit completely.
There is no scripture that suggests we 'walk out' of the Spirit when we sin or become distracted, unfocused, or offend/squelch/neutralize the Spirit.
Saying we 'walk out' of the Spirit suggested we are now walking in(to) the flesh as we did before the Spirit joined, to our spirit. Our spirit does not move anywhere and especially not to our old self/man or outer man, when we lose focus of the Spirit. We just stifle and place the Spirit on hold during our 'distraction.' WE stunt our growth. We eventually return and refocus and default to continuing in movement within, and becoming more as the Spirit - as we continue to mature. It is a question of maturity!
The Spirit is still there permanently whether we stray, deviate or strain our relationship or not! We do not 'walk out' at all. We remain in Christ, his spirit of truth. We are still completely immersed in the Spirit whether we acknowledge it or know this or not. We are in the light of God whether we acknowledge or know this or not. There is no such thing as a part(time) movement or walk in Christ. It is a matter of maturity!
We walk grudgingly, rebelling, or with joy and hope in Christ. We still walk briskly or slowly, or even crawl grudgingly or even run fast to be the winner in the race, to be impatient, to become one in Spirit continually.
We are baptized completely in the Spirit and anointed as priests of Christ as we are the Father's temple, and we spread his presence that now resides within us, to others, from our hearts, and thus displayed in our thoughts, words and actions.
To hear a man teach the gospel of Christ is so rare. It gives such hope of what He has prepared for us and that no one ever teaches, so it excites and spurs me on and boosts my trust. You cannot teach so well and not have been in His presence at least once, and not have it reach the ones who have seen something is very wrong in the institutional church. They will just immediately see, with horror, that something has been done to hold them back and keep them from more. You have made me weep and rejoice epi.
How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Wish I could understand and follow what our brother is saying, most of the time...it is over my head but, I DO attempt to understand...
Ask, sister! Ask!
5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind.
It’s funny. I just now came back because I was thinking, wait a minute, you know Nancy could be your twin so you know you have to add something to that!
Ask in trust, believing what He said about giving wisdom liberally and without reproach to anyone who asks and then wait patiently.
The waiting patiently part is the testing of your trust, to see if you will waver or will keep trusting He will do what He said there. The testing of your trust leads to endurance of trust, so you won’t be tossed around anymore.
Okay, this will be prayer for myself every day until He opens my eyes and understanding...I won't get a lobotomy
I used to whisper to Him, maybe not daily, but a lot, I’m still waiting for wisdom Lord and I know we have to work on patient trust first and I don’t care how stupid I look to my family I will be glad to become an even bigger fool to them if you can make me stand firm. I know You said: If you won’t stand firm in trust, I can’t establish you and I know You said after I struggle for a while You will strengthen, confirm and establish me. I will keep trusting and hoping in what you’ve said because I know You are truthful and your words are truth.
Speaking to Him is mostly in my mind, silently...unless in fervent prayer with tears! THEN my pleas are out loud.
Boy, patience is hard for some things yet, I know we get no where without it. Just want to learn and live His commands and one day hear "Well done, good and faithful servant".
Sure do not want to hear "I never knew you" Scariest thought ever!
I could care less what anyone might think of me anymore, just what He thinks of me. So much is vague when it comes to hearing from Him outside the bible...His voice, that is...then it's like, "gee, was that from you Lord?" Shouldn't have to question it, I'd think. So a work in progress just like my house right now...
Speaking to Him is mostly in my mind, silently...unless in fervent prayer with tears! THEN my pleas are out loud.
Boy, patience is hard for some things yet, I know we get no where without it. Just want to learn and live His commands and one day hear "Well done, good and faithful servant".
Sure do not want to hear "I never knew you" Scariest thought ever!
I could care less what anyone might think of me anymore, just what He thinks of me. So much is vague when it comes to hearing from Him outside the bible...His voice, that is...then it's like, "gee, was that from you Lord?" Shouldn't have to question it, I'd think. So a work in progress just like my house right now...