Spiritual Shepherding

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stunnedbygrace

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But in gaining peace, you left a void. You lost some part of yourself, something important, something you need.

If I know you, though, I’m sure you’d make the trade again in a heartbeat.

Maybe I’m in over my head, and this is what the Walk is supposed to be.

What did I lose that I need…?
 

marks

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But in gaining peace, you left a void. You lost some part of yourself, something important, something you need.

If I know you, though, I’m sure you’d make the trade again in a heartbeat.

Maybe I’m in over my head, and this is what the Walk is supposed to be.
It seems to me we are all different, and God works in all sorts of ways.

I've known times like this myself. I've seen them in times where God has done some work putting off the old man in such a sudden and large way as to leave this void. But then He's come back and filled it in with Himself, that is, as He trains me in His sort of living, His love and joy and peace fill that void.

As I read the Scriptures, we put of the old man to then put on the new. If the old has been put off, and we don't know yet how to put on the new, I feel like that describes these times with me.

Once upon a time God put off the old entirely from me, or so it seemed to me. It was after I asked to be able to share this that it came back, and I've had to learn the walk of faith for the old to remain put off. And I've learned that we will in the Spirit, having put on that new man, at all times in which we are trusting Jesus for that abundant life.

Much love!
 
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DuckieLady

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I honestly don’t know…after I went some time in this odd where did I go state, I experienced anger suddenly one morning. It was not a righteous anger. It was a biting back in my mind at someone attacking me, so it was a rising up of my flesh/ego. It was very brief and my immediate thought was, oh no, what I had feared has happened and I’ve come back. But I didn’t come back, so I’m not sure what that brief reverting was. I’ve thought maybe it was…a warning to me to not ever, ever think I had somehow brought this grace upon myself? I don’t know.

Then, since that brief reverting, I’ve once experienced an anger that was very different than any anger I’d ever experienced. It WAS anger at what I saw someone doing to someone else that was quite wrong and self serving but…it was without my previous…self involved in it. It was an anger but…mixed with pity? Compassion? They could no more help what they were doing than I previously could.

I think maybe…I’m not aware of any flesh remaining alive (except for that one brief reverting). I do appear to be dead to me and there’s nothing left there for people or satan or the world to control me by or stir me up by. But…there’s maybe some deep things I can’t see in me but that God sees? I only know that I wish to remain in this emptiness as long as God wishes for me to remain in it. Trusting Him has only ever brought me good so I will keep trusting Him.
Wouldn't it be nice if there was perfect advice for this?

John Bunyan and Martin Luther were both "OCD" about their sins. In fact Luther came to repent so much and his conscience was plagued by even insignificant little sins, endlessly, so much that they actually asked him to stop coming.


“Indeed, I have been as one sent to them from the dead; I went myself in chains, to preach to them in chains; and carried that fire in my own conscience, that I persuaded them to be aware of. I can truly say, and that without dissembling, that when I have been to preach, I have gone full of guilt and terror, even to the pulpit door, and there it hath been taken off, and I have been at liberty in my mind until I have done my work; and then immediately, even before I could get down the pulpit stairs, I have been as bad as I was before; yet God carried me on, but surely with a strong hand, for neither guilt nor hell could take me off my work.”
― John Bunyan, Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners
 
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stunnedbygrace

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You do seem content in the emptiness.

Maybe self-emptying is what the Christian Walk is about.

It’s way beyond content. The one who tortured me for 14 years no longer tortures me.
Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things and count them but dung, that I may win Christ
 

Lambano

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I've known times like this myself. I've seen them in times where God has done some work putting off the old man in such a sudden and large way as to leave this void. But then He's come back and filled it in with Himself, that is, as He trains me in His sort of living, His love and joy and peace fill that void.

maybe I fear the void too much and it hinders me from walking this way.

Or maybe I’m still needed down here in the realm of unruly kids and people who need rides to get where they need to go.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Wouldn't it be nice if there was perfect advice for this?

John Bunyan and Martin Luther were both "OCD" about their sins. In fact Luther came to repent so much and his conscience was plagued by even insignificant little sins, endlessly, so much that they actually asked him to stop coming.


“Indeed, I have been as one sent to them from the dead; I went myself in chains, to preach to them in chains; and carried that fire in my own conscience, that I persuaded them to be aware of. I can truly say, and that without dissembling, that when I have been to preach, I have gone full of guilt and terror, even to the pulpit door, and there it hath been taken off, and I have been at liberty in my mind until I have done my work; and then immediately, even before I could get down the pulpit stairs, I have been as bad as I was before; yet God carried me on, but surely with a strong hand, for neither guilt nor hell could take me off my work.”
― John Bunyan, Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners

Luther was a bit of mess, wasn’t he? He couldn’t seem to settle down to trust, as if by self flagellation he could drive himself out of himself. It’s actually a pride not dead yet that would do that. Sort of like…a foolish Galatian on steroids…
 
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Episkopos

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We’ve talked about it extensively. If my passions and emotions no longer rise up to trouble me and harass me and make me and everyone around me miserable, I had to come to that conclusion. It’s been…almost ten months. I sit here empty of them. I can’t even muster my own will for anything if it isn’t completely necessary to do. What other conclusion could I come to except that my flesh has died? I mean, if my hair caught fire, I would run to the sink but other than what is necessary, I sit here empty of my passions and will.
Of course I would like to know what comes next but who could tell me? I can’t find anyone who knows. Maybe I will sit here like this until my body dies if that’s what God wants.

I think it's important to understand that the will is from the inner man. The flesh must convince us that doing wrong is required. If the will was in the wrong part of us then it would be impossible to resist temptation.

Rather than giving up our will...we need to make it stronger by submitting it to the strengthening grace of God.

I see this like a person operating a backhoe. With the simple touch of a finger, the operator can move a great amount of earth. But he does it first with his will. When we pray...Your will be done...we do that with our will. Having a will is part of being created in God's image. God's wants us to place our will under His own. But our own will must remain intact...and be renewed into what makes us strong in Him.

Peace
 

DuckieLady

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Luther was a bit of mess, wasn’t he? He couldn’t seem to settle down to trust, as if by self flagellation he could drive himself out of himself. It’s actually a pride not dead yet that would do that.
Yes! But as God works all things for good, his obsession changed church history.

If you ever have a quiet hour and a cup of tea, or whatever suits you, I recommend this one.

A bit humorous, too.

 

Episkopos

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The difference between true righteousness and holiness?

Actually, it is how deeply we are immersed in holiness. How deep must one wade in the water before we can say we are wet?
The righteous still sin. These can receive touches from God as a drop of water that inspires and quickens the inner man. But just like baptism in water...a Spirit baptism is by immersion.
 

stunnedbygrace

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But in gaining peace, you left a void. You lost some part of yourself, something important, something you need. I hear the echo in the emptiness.

If I know you, though, I’m sure you’d make the trade again in a heartbeat.

Or maybe I’m in over my head, and this is what the Walk is supposed to be. Is it?

Those who love their life in this world will lose it. Those who care nothing for their life in this world will keep it for eternity.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I think it's important to understand that the will is from the inner man. The flesh must convince us that doing wrong is required. If the will was in the wrong part of us then it would be impossible to resist temptation.

Rather than giving up our will...we need to make it stronger by submitting it to the strengthening grace of God.

I see this like a person operating a backhoe. With the simple touch of a finger, the operator can move a great amount of earth. But he does it first with his will. When we pray...Your will be done...we do that with our will. Having a will is part of being created in God's image. God's wants us to place our will under His own. But our own will must remain intact...and be renewed into what makes us strong in Him.

Peace

I guess then…my will was guided by my passions and now my sedated passions can no longer overtake and direct my will and so it seems to me I HAVE no will other than to be right where I am where God has placed me…
 
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DuckieLady

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Yes, it did change history, but while I can see that someone did need to call out the unspiritual mess that was going on, I’m not sure we are in much different of a place than before…
A lot of good he did, but I don't agree with everything he taught either.
 

Philip James

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Who is interested in providing instruction for living out a holy life?

Hello Fluffy,

I think that is a great question!

I would suggest a review of this section of the CCC: Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText for instruction on that very thing.

And, of course, there are multiple Saints who's lives/writings provide excellent examples of living out a holy life.

Pax et Bonum
 

DuckieLady

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Yeah. He was so wish washy in so much. First it was to love the Jews, then later it was we should burn down all their synagogues and try to save some through the fire…??
Interestingly also part of the movement that killed the Anabaptist for rebaptizing, (anabaptist.... think of where the Amish came from, it's easier), but we still read some of Luther's work.

I guess its putting the concept of forgiveness into practice. Lol
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Interestingly also part of the movement that killed the Anabaptist for rebaptizing, (anabaptist.... think of where the Amish came from, it's easier), but we still read some of Luther's work.

I guess its putting the concept of forgiveness into practice. Lol

The Anabaptists seemed to start out all right, at least closest to what disciples should be, I think. They actually formed BECAUSE of Luther but then went their separate way when Luther went off the rails and just created a new hierarchy to replace the catholic hierarchy, then were persecuted BY Lutherans, who they forgave and were thankful for, even WHILE being persecuted by them!