I wondered about that. I’ve thought that just because I’m aware of no sin does not mean there are not some deeply embedded in me that I can’t see but God can. It’s still a great relief though to not be tortured. And it’s also wonderful to receive understanding of scripture in a solidly firm way rather than working so hard to try to understand in such cloudiness.
Spiritual Shepherding
- Thread starter Episkopos
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
I wondered about that. I’ve thought that just because I’m aware of no sin does not mean there are not some deeply embedded in me that I can’t see but God can. It’s still a great relief though to not be tortured. And it’s also wonderful to receive understanding of scripture in a solidly firm way rather than working so hard to try to understand in such cloudiness.
1 Peter 5:1-4 LITV
1) I, a fellow elder, exhort the elders among you, I being also witness of the sufferings of Christ, and being sharer of the glory about to be revealed:
2) Shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight, not by compulsion, but willingly; nor eagerly for base gain, but readily;
3) nor as exercising lordship over the ones allotted to you, but becoming examples of the flock.
4) And at the appearing of the Chief Shepherd, you will receive the never fading crown of glory.
The King James translates here, "over God's heritage", while Jay P. Green translates, the ones allotted to you.
The idea here that God selects who is to be shepherded by whom.
Much love!
1) I, a fellow elder, exhort the elders among you, I being also witness of the sufferings of Christ, and being sharer of the glory about to be revealed:
2) Shepherd the flock of God among you, exercising oversight, not by compulsion, but willingly; nor eagerly for base gain, but readily;
3) nor as exercising lordship over the ones allotted to you, but becoming examples of the flock.
4) And at the appearing of the Chief Shepherd, you will receive the never fading crown of glory.
The King James translates here, "over God's heritage", while Jay P. Green translates, the ones allotted to you.
The idea here that God selects who is to be shepherded by whom.
Much love!
That's how I think of myself. In times I might think I'm not sinning, I put those thoughts to the side, I'm simply not qualified to know. Jesus is the One Who knows about that, and I'm trusting Him to show me what I need to see.
Much love!
There is. We just are impatient at first and try to latch on every single other way someone offers to us for the outside of our cup, which is just busy brickmaking to keep us from learning the obedience of trust rather than fuss and worry over our outside.
The irony here is that the word translated as heritage from the Greek "Klarion" is where we get the word "clergy" from. Here the "clergy" would actually be the laity...if such a distinction actually existed. Of course this obscures the real distinction between those who are spiritual and those who are still carnal. The pride of rich Westerners is too great to consider that someone who is lesser than they are in the world could be much greater than them in the kingdom realm. And because of this pride the sound doctrine is obliterated in favour of a class system that favours man-made education and privileged positioning...both of which favour the rich....both of which favour the outer man.
Errors begin when the meaning of words is changed. Words like "imputed" which actually means rightly attributed...or "outer man" which is wrongly identified with a person's physical body add a lot of confusion for those trying to discover the truth.
Ah! I was just having that discussion somewhere recently. I have a hard time understanding why men came up with “imputed righteousness” when forgiveness and continued and growing trust are quite enough!
The only thing I could come up with is they were trying to…figure out how one could still sin inside and yet the Holy Spirit didn’t leave them, or they were trying to come up with a rope long enough to tie Gods hands…
'Walking in and out' of the Spirit is not scriptural, and gives the strong impression that one has a choice to come and go as we please whether to choose to be in the Spirit or not, and for however long we want. This is potentially dangerous doctrine if not clearly defined!
Also, as deduced from your words, that we decide to set the pace of our movement is Christ is also unscriptural. We are not the one to decide these things if we are truly saved; even living in the flesh that is unreliable. Once we are in the Spirit of his Son, it then decides according to his plan what is set for our lives, as Christ's spirit is in us to ensure these 'good' works of the Spirit are completed in us for the glory of God.
Paul says in Galatians 5:16
(Greek NT TR) λεγω δε πνευματι περιπατειτε και επιθυμιαν σαρκος ου μη τελεσητε
(Greek NT TR+) λεγωG3004 V-PAI-1S δεG1161 CONJ πνευματιG4151 N-DSN περιπατειτεG4043 V-PAM-2P καιG2532 CONJ επιθυμιανG1939 N-ASF σαρκοςG4561 N-GSF ουG3756 PRT-N μηG3361 PRT-N τελεσητεG5055 V-AAS-2P
(ISV) So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will never fulfill the desires of the flesh.
(GNB) What I say is this: let the Spirit direct your lives, and you will not satisfy the desires of the human nature.
(Williams) I mean this: Practice living by the Spirit and then by no means will you gratify the cravings of your lower nature.
περιπατειτε => to be occupied, to live, to walk (about) with or in, to intimately follow, to habitually conduct as a lifestyle being in and always 'wearing' the Spirit as we live and breathe.
The goal is to become mature in the Spirit and thus to become one with the Spirit and always be walking or moving as one Spirit. This is not completely obtainable in this sin-biased mortal body of ours unless God possesses and overrides our spirit completely.
There is no scripture that suggests we 'walk out' of the Spirit when we sin or become distracted, unfocused, or offend/squelch/neutralize the Spirit.
Saying we 'walk out' of the Spirit suggested we are now walking in(to) the flesh as we did before the Spirit joined, to our spirit. Our spirit does not move anywhere and especially not to our old self/man or outer man, when we lose focus of the Spirit. We just stifle and place the Spirit on hold during our 'distraction.' WE stunt our growth. We eventually return and refocus and default to continuing in movement within, and becoming more as the Spirit - as we continue to mature. It is a question of maturity!
The Spirit is still there permanently whether we stray, deviate or strain our relationship or not! We do not 'walk out' at all. We remain in Christ, his spirit of truth. We are still completely immersed in the Spirit whether we acknowledge it or know this or not. We are in the light of God whether we acknowledge or know this or not. There is no such thing as a part(time) movement or walk in Christ. It is a matter of maturity!
We walk grudgingly, rebelling, or with joy and hope in Christ. We still walk briskly or slowly, or even crawl grudgingly or even run fast to be the winner in the race, to be impatient, to become one in Spirit continually.
We are baptized completely in the Spirit and anointed as priests of Christ as we are the Father's temple, and we spread his presence that now resides within us, to others, from our hearts, and thus displayed in our thoughts, words and actions.
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
Lol right!
What's funny is the Anabaptist finally had a chance to read the Bible for themselves, know it and love it.
Which interestingly, after being taken from everything else and left alone with Bible for years, and reading it for myself, stuck in one little room and not having much, but full reliance on God alone, that ended up being the category I fell into.
It was a complete accident.
I didn't know that! This is indeed irony! And it does seem to shift the understanding of how the body is fitted together.
I don't see how this is limited to "westerners", and I see a number of different "class systems" implemented amongs the assemblies, just speaking for myself. It seems to me there are many many ways people endeavor to sublimate the spiritual into the fleshy, to have a semblence of the truth, though lacking any power.
This to me, more than anything, keeps me unconcerned over being found in error over something. I know that if I've got something wrong, I'll be denying myself the benefit that knowing the truth will bring.
And it's very true, those whom men consider the most base, God often uses to bring down those who are prideful. Yes, men are often all to quick to judge by appearance!
Much love!
This is why I point to . . .
Romans 8:9 KJV
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
The determiner of whether we are in the Spirit is not whether our works are spirit or flesh, but the determiner is whether the Spirit of God lives in you. So unless someone is suggesting that the Holy Spirit comes and goes from us, then if the Spirit is in us - you have been saved by incorruptible seed, by the Word of God that lives and remains forever - if the Spirit is in us . . . we are then in the Spirit, according to this passage.
This is plainly worded, no ambiguity, nothing in the Bible disagrees with this.
Much love!
For me, having that rock solid trust in the efficacy of Jesus' death in effecting my full and complete reconciliation to God in Jesus Christ and not having to do with my abilities to measure up, well, to me, that is the number one thing to pass on to someone to whom I would shepherd, were I to be put in such a relationship.
I have to have that confidence myself, so that I can be truly standing in grace.
Romans 5:1-2 KJV
1) Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
We need to understand our access to God "for timely help", and our access into this grace in which we stand.
I see the difficulties in life described in the fiery darts, intended to trigger us to stop trusting Jesus, and I see the assurance of our acceptance in Christ in not of ourselves as the daily answer of how to not get knocked down.
Plainly speaking, the faith that Jesus removed my sin on the cross - blotted clean my record of indebtedness - is the faith that allows me to stand in grace, that is, knowing that my sin now will not separate me from God is the faith that gives me the power to not commit that sin. If I'm thinking I have to perform right to be able to have access to God's deliverance, well, I'm trying to avoid sin in my own effort outside of God, because God has an entirely different way in mind.
On our own we can get some results but not the inner spiritual work that comes from God. But when I stop looking at myself, and just commune with God because Jesus is righteous and Jesus is in me giving me my life, then I can just live the righteous life, in love and joy and peace, and knowing all the Spirit's fruit, because I'm not putting up the roadblocks of the leaven of legalism.
Getting rid of those roadblocks, and getting into a pure faith in Christ, that to me is what spiritual shepherding should be accomplishing.
I love thinking about these things! Bless you brother!
Much love!
I like this analogy.
I think that what we may call lack of faith is actually fear of freedom, which is of course a flesh feeling we erroneously own as ours.
Much love!
I remember you once saying something about being tricked out of it but can’t remember how. And if it’s something you don’t want to share here, no worries.
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Hi Epi,
"Oh, I am never lonely. Christ said, `I will never leave you nor forsake you,' and, `Lo, I am with you alway.' How can I be lonely when Jesus is with me?"
"The pain of loneliness arises from the constitution of our nature. God made us for each other. The desire for human companionship is completely natural and right. The loneliness of the Christian results from his walk with God in an ungodly world, a walk that must often take him away from the fellowship of good Christians as well as from that of the unregenerate world. His Godgiven instincts cry out for companionship with others of his kind, others who can understand his longings, his aspirations, his absorption in the love of Christ; and because within his circle of friends there are so few who share his inner experiences he is forced to walk alone."
"... true spiritual fellowship will be hard to find."
WORD!! Already is I'd say. Would rather be "lonely" than with those who are in the world...
" He finds few who care to talk about that which is the supreme object of his interest, so he is often silent and preoccupied in the midst of noisy religious shoptalk. For this he earns the reputation of being dull and overserious, so he is avoided and the gulf between him and society widens. "
Oh so true, this is how it is exactly in my own experience...they say there are "no lone ranger Christians" But...I disagree as I am a lone ranger Christian (IRL) except for the most part, this site, and those who I have grown close to over the years.
"He searches for friends upon whose garments he can detect the smell of myrrh and aloes and cassia out of the ivory palaces, and finding few or none he, like Mary of old, keeps these things in his heart."
For reals!!! Hunger for those who can be hugged, helped, and share Christ with are like, no where to be found around my area, and I'm sure most others as well.
"It is this very loneliness that throws him back upon God. "When my father and my mother forsake me, then the Lord will take me up." His inability to find human companionship drives him to seek in God what he can find nowhere else."
Exactly! It's always been that I knew that even if nobody else on earth loved me, I knew God did, and what comfort that brings. It is a lonely walk for sure brother but, just knowing that He loves us, the unlovable, is so very comforting.
"the lonely man of whom we speak is not a haughty man, nor is he the holier-than-thou, austere saint so bitterly satirized in popular literature. <--- Lol, sure do not EVER think myself holy at all really, though am trying to grasp that we must "be holy as He is holy"
He is likely to feel that he is the least of all men and is sure to blame himself for his very loneliness.<---Perhaps he IS to blame for his loneliness, I think I am to blame as, I did not truly come to Him until late in life so, no true Christian friends...?
So happy that feeling of being home in this world is long gone. If anything, it's feeling more and more foreign.
" He wants to share his feelings with others and to open his heart to some like-minded soul who will understand him, but the spiritual climate around him does not encourage it, so he remains silent and tells his griefs to God alone."
Truth.
DuckieLady
Well-Known Member
'YES.@FluffyYellowDuck SOLA SCRIPTURA....
That way. ----->
I don't need feelings or experiences, the purity of the gospel and good theology is the way ahead.
What better thing could be brought to the people of the world than the solid testimony of Jesus Christ? What could actually make a real difference?
Nancy
Well-Known Member
Thank you Farouk, and which one did you like best?
Similar threads
