Who be the “elect”?

[Lifelong_sinner]

There are many that have and would disagree, Ellen G. White for one, with a supposed 2,000 dreams and visions claimed to be from God?

nonsense. The apostolic gifts are gone.

 

[reformed1689]

Same thing far as I can tell.

fore·know
/fôrˈnō/verb
LITERARY
past tense: foreknew

1. be aware of (an event) before it happens.
   "he foreknows his death like a saint"

fore·see
/fôrˈsē/
verb
past tense: foresaw

1. be aware of beforehand; predict.
   "we did not foresee any difficulties"

Except you used an English dictionary and didn't look at the Greek.

 

[reformed1689]

There are many that have and would disagree, Ellen G. White for one, with a supposed 2,000 dreams and visions claimed to be from God?

Ellen G. White was a heretic.

 

[Truth7t7]

nonsense. The apostolic gifts are gone.

I was kidding, Ole Ellen G. White is a false prophetess

 

[Truth7t7]

Ellen G. White was a heretic.

I Agree, and a false prophetess

 

[Nancy]

Except you used an English dictionary and didn't look at the Greek.

I speak "English", the bible has been written in "English", I understand in "English"...just like all the other Nations and tongues read, understand and speak in their own. Why would this all be lost in translation with just the English? Perhaps you can enlighten me as I am not inclined to go through tomes of Greek books and Greek this or that, nor am I a scholar...just your regular run o the mill Christian seeking truth and clarity.
The longer a post, the more I will pass on it as, His word should not take so many of our own words to explain.

Are you able to explain this simple difference between the two words in less than two paragraphs?

 

[reformed1689]

I speak "English", the bible has been written in "English", I understand in "English"...just like all the other Nations and tongues read, understand and speak in their own. Why would this all be lost in translation with just the English? Perhaps you can enlighten me as I am not inclined to go through tomes of Greek books and Greek this or that, nor am I a scholar...just your regular run o the mill Christian seeking truth and clarity.
The longer a post, the more I will pass on it as, His word should not take so many of our own words to explain.

Are you able to explain this simple difference between the two words in less than two paragraphs?

Foreknow is to intimately know beforehand. A relationship. An election. Foresight is just knowing what will happen. The Bible was not written in English and anyone serious about Scripture will at least investigate the original languages.

 

[Nancy]

Foreknow is to intimately know beforehand. A relationship. An election. Foresight is just knowing what will happen. The Bible was not written in English and anyone serious about Scripture will at least investigate the original languages.

"Foreknow is to intimately know beforehand. A relationship. An election. Foresight is just knowing what will happen. "

Thank you for the short answer. It still seems pretty much synonymous to me though.

"anyone serious about Scripture will at least investigate the original languages."

Not all have the capacity necessary for this kind of endeavor.
Some will simply have to trust that God's Holy Spirit will open His words up to them.

 

[reformed1689]

Thank you for the short answer. It still seems pretty much synonymous to me though.

Trust me, it is not when you look at the use in the original language. English does not and cannot give the full depth of Scripture. This is easily demonstrared in John 21:


Jesus and Peter
15 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” 16 He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep. 18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go.” 19 (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, “Follow me.”


The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Jn 21:15–19.

 

[reformed1689]

In the English, @Nancy both Jesus and Peter use the same word love. But in Greek there are three different words that get translated as love in English with very different depths of meaning. In the original, the two are not using the same word until Jesus meets Peter on His level in the final exchange.

 

[ewq1938]

Mat_20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.

chosen is the word eklektos (elect)


G1588

eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.
Total KJV occurrences: 23



Mat_24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

elect's is the word eklektos

G1588

eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.
Total KJV occurrences: 23



Since we know Mat_20:16 use of eklektos (elect) is about Christians, we also know the same word used in Mat_24:22 is also speaking of Christians, not non-Christians. We have Christ himself saying chosen Christian elect will be in the Great Tribulation.

 

[n2thelight]

Not all Christians are of the Elect

We read that the Lord said; "...For He is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and Kings, and children of Israel:" Acts 9:15

Ephesians 1:5 "Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will,"

"Predestined" means "from a prior time", or "required to do a certain thing" in the Greek text. You have a choice of loving God, or loving Satan. God will not interfere with your free will choice to chose Him or Satan. However, that person that proved himself during the overthrow of Satan, were "justified", or earned the right to be called "saints", from that first earth age.

Each soul comes from God, and enters an embryo at conception. This is why Jeremiah was a chosen one. "Before I formed thee in the belly I know thee; and before thou comest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet of nations." Jeremiah 1:5

"Sanctified" thee, is to "set aside, or apart for a purpose". Sins still have to be repented, and the price to pay for them still had to be made. To the predestined, and fore chosen, God can make life so miserable to those out of His will that they will repent. God has a perfect will, and God is always fair.

"And we know that all things work together for good, to them that love God, to them who are the called according to His purpose." Romans 8:28 This verse is directed to a certain people, with a condition attached. This applies to "them who are called according to His purpose." "His purpose" is called God's plan, and God's overall plan is the offering of Salvation to all. That plan includes the teaching of God's Word; to plant seeds to convict; to live our life for Him; and to go and speak where God leads you. God will use you as it pleases Him.

"For whom He did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren." Romans 8:29 God knew you, and what you were in that first earth age; and then [in that first earth age] God prearranged our destiny for this age. That destiny is to make us conform, or be like His Son, Jesus Christ. Though Jesus is the first fruits to overcome death, there are many that have that victory over death, through Christ's death and resurrection.

"Moreover whom He did predestinate, them He also called: and whom He called: He also justified: and whom He justified, them He also glorified." Romans 8:30 "Justified" means "judged" in the Greek text; God judged them there in that first earth age, and that is why God can and does intercede in the chosen's ones lives. The justified are the priests of the Zadok in the millennium age of Ezekiel 40, for the word Zadok comes from the Hebrew word meaning "the just".

Certain of God's children stood against Satan in the first earth age, and those that did stand, and did not follow Satan; God judged [justified], and He "chose" them then to be used in His eternal plan. Through God's perfect plan, God "predestined", and "ordained" each of them to His purpose to be used in this flesh age. Each of these will also be used in the Millennium age as priests, or called the "Zadok".

 

[reformed1689]

"Predestined" means "from a prior time", or "required to do a certain thing" in the Greek text.

I have never seen any evidence that the word προορίζω could mean "required to do a certain thing." Where are you getting that from?

 

[Nancy]

In the English, @Nancy both Jesus and Peter use the same word love. But in Greek there are three different words that get translated as love in English with very different depths of meaning. In the original, the two are not using the same word until Jesus meets Peter on His level in the final exchange.

Yes, thank you. I do understand there are different meanings of many words that are the same in English spelling. The different kinds of "love" are pretty easily understood but, foresee and foreknow are still stubbornly not budging as, there is really no discernable difference between the descriptions you gave and what I have been able to find.
Going to have to once again disagree about something brother.
Gods blessings aplenty!

 

[Nancy]

Trust me, it is not when you look at the use in the original language. English does not and cannot give the full depth of Scripture. This is easily demonstrared in John 21:


Jesus and Peter
15 When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” 16 He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.” 17 He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep. 18 Truly, truly, I say to you, when you were young, you used to dress yourself and walk wherever you wanted, but when you are old, you will stretch out your hands, and another will dress you and carry you where you do not want to go.” 19 (This he said to show by what kind of death he was to glorify God.) And after saying this he said to him, “Follow me.”


The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Jn 21:15–19.

Understood.

Jesus askes Peter 3 times if he loves Him, Jesus questions: "Do you love me"
15 "agapaō"
16 "agapaō"
17 "phileō"



Peters replies: "I love you"
"Phileo"
"Phileo"
"Phileo"

These are easy to understand and straight forward. I will always look at the simplest interpretation first as, it seems to mostly be the correct ones. And if there were some person I knew well, and who loved the Lord, AND was scholarly, that would be someone I would love to sit under, to learn one on one with all the Greeky stuff...

 

[reformed1689]

Yes, thank you. I do understand there are different meanings of many words that are the same in English spelling. The different kinds of "love" are pretty easily understood but, foresee and foreknow are still stubbornly not budging as, there is really no discernable difference between the descriptions you gave and what I have been able to find.
Going to have to once again disagree about something brother.
Gods blessings aplenty!

Because you aren't willing to STUDY the Greek. STUDY to show yourself approved. Don't be lazy in your Bible Study!

 

[Nancy]

Because you aren't willing to STUDY the Greek. STUDY to show yourself approved. Don't be lazy in your Bible Study!

It is NOT about "laziness"! I am just not a part of the "intelligencia" and would need a tutor. you can go ahead and do this on your own as you have the capacity and probably the education, I do not. Some have difficulty plowing through all that stuff and it is not salvific IMHO. Jesus own disciples were mostly un learned.
I trust MUCH more in The Holy Spirit and what He reveals to me through His word than I would anything a man or women would try to "teach me". It is NOT that I'm NOT seeking with all my heart! I do not watch TV and have not in DECADES, I no longer read secular books as they hold no pleasure anymore...it is ALWAYS seeking the things of Him. Either looking up different words, meanings, on this site or simply listening to and singing along to His praises. Not a scholar but, I draw close as I can to Him, and I KNOW He will draw near to me too...even though I'm not "rocket science smart".
Don't be presumptuous brother, the scribes and Pharisees were VERY learned yet...missed the weightier matters, totally over their head. I want to keep it simple so as not to be "tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine"

 

[reformed1689]

I want to keep it simple so as not to be "tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine"

Simple in English only and no study, just "Trust the Spirit" which is not what Scripture says to do and why you have so much error.

 

[Nancy]

Simple in English only and no study, just "Trust the Spirit" which is not what Scripture says to do and why you have so much error.

Ok, we are done.

 

[reformed1689]

That people don't even want to attempt to study says something about their spiritual walk. We are COMMANDED to study.