Genesis 1, a day, and Billions of years

[Cooper]

Roger-Dodger!

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(2 Peter 3:8 KJV)

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
(Psalms 90:4 KJV)
.

 

[quietthinker]

Lots of off-topic opinions about the age of the universe/Earth on another topic, and I had a question, so time for a new topic ...

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

Please explain the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." as an indeterminate long period of time.

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean as a concept apart from the 24-hour "day"?

This will set the tone for all of the other 6 "days" in Genesis 1 that will follow using the same literary pattern.

Why should it mean anything else?....unless of course you want to create a rabbit hole with the likelihood of a dead end and pat on the back from Charlie D.
The definer, 'evening and morning' sounds clear enough....no ambiguity there....why mess it up?

 

[Curtis]

Plants were made on day three, the sun was made on day four.

If each day was as long as a 1000 years, all the vegetation would be dead before there was sunlight.

Evening is defined as the time between Sunset and bedtime, morning is defined as the time after sunrise.

Each creation day is defined as an evening and a morning, specific terms that mean a 24 hour earth rotation period involving a sunset and a sunrise.

This does not allow for indefinite time periods of billions of years or thousands of years.

 

[Robert Gwin]

The Bible does not specify the length of each of the creative periods-in a measurable way for humans to understand. Yet all six of them have ended. (Genesis 1:31) However, with respect to the seventh day, God proceeded to rest, indicating that this “day” has continued. (Genesis 2:1-3) Thousands of years later Paul indicated that the seventh day is not concluded. At Hebrews 4:1-11 he referred to the earlier words of David (Psalms 95:10, 11) and urged: “Let us therefore do our utmost to enter into that rest.” Therefore, one “creative day” was-at a minimum-several thousand years in length.

Nice summary Mark, thanks much sir.

 

[Josho]

Lots of off-topic opinions about the age of the universe/Earth on another topic, and I had a question, so time for a new topic ...

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

Please explain the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." as an indeterminate long period of time.

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean as a concept apart from the 24-hour "day"?

This will set the tone for all of the other 6 "days" in Genesis 1 that will follow using the same literary pattern.

The Bible does not tell us the age of the universe/earth, but it does tell us about the generations between Adam and Jesus Christ, which can be counted.

But we cannot find anywhere in the Bible where it says the earth was 4000 years old when Jesus entered the world.

 

[doxley]

Where are the “non-symbolism” chapters in Revelation?

• Chapter 1: 7 stars and 7 lamp stands
• Chapter 2: letters to angels of churches, rod of iron, smashed like pottery, gift of the morning star.
• Chapter 3: people made into the pillar of a temple, people vomited out.
• Chapter 4: seven lamps are seven spirits, four living creatures.
• Chapter 5: book with seven seals, seven eyes, seven horns.
• Chapter 6: broken seals and horses.
• Chapter 7: angels sealing foreheads of 144,000 people
• Chapter 8: censers thrown at the earth and angels blowing trumpets of destruction.
• Chapter 9: trumpets and keys and bottomless pits.
• Chapter 10: eating little books
• Chapter 11: two witnesses, beast from abyss, ark of covenant.
• Chapter 12: woman, dragon, child and angels fighting.
• Chapter 13: beast with ten horns and seven heads.
• Chapter 14: lamb, 144,000 men, mark of beast, angels reaping men with sickles.
• Chapter 15: seven angels with seven plagues, bowls of wrath.
• Chapter 16: pouring bowls of wrath, Babylon the great
• Chapter 17: Babylon, woman clothed in scarlet, beast with 10 horns and 7 heads
• Chapter 18: great city clothed in scarlet, Angel throwing millstone
• Chapter 19: marriage, bride, horse in sun, beast thrown in a lake of fire, sword coming out of the mouth.
• Chapter 20: key to abyss, chain, dragon, thrones and souls, death and hades thrown in lake of fire.
• Chapter 21: Jeweled city with pearl gates in a REALLY BIG cube, bride of a Lamb.
• Chapter 22: River of life flows from throne down the center of a gold street, names on foreheads.

Any claim that part of Revelation is LITERAL and devoid of symbolic meaning is either “wishful thinking” or some special “personal revelation” … because EVERY CHAPTER is full of symbolism and metaphorical language.

Pardon my ignorance, I am wondering what revelation 20 is symbolizing? I'm not disputing that it's symbolic, but I have always believed in a millennium on account of it, if that is not so then what is rev 20 symbolizing?

 

[atpollard]

What is there to explain about Genesis 2:2-3? we are in the seventh day now and it is more than 24 hours long.
.

Is dying on the cross “work”?

 

[atpollard]

Pardon my ignorance, I am wondering what revelation 20 is symbolizing? I'm not disputing that it's symbolic, but I have always believed in a millennium on account of it, if that is not so then what is rev 20 symbolizing?

In general, I am clueless when it comes to interpreting prophetic symbols. Except for “weighed, weighed, measured and cut” in Daniel (which I understood immediately because I was familiar with the Norns in Norse mythology), I need to wait for the Angel to come and explain it. So I avoid making statements about Revelation.

(I leave that to the MANY on-line experts on end-time prophecies). ;)

 

[NayborBear]

The only part that concerns me is the fact that most of the same experts that tell us “it takes 300 million years for coal to form” state with equal certainty and expertise “there is no God”. For those of us who know for certain that they are wrong about God’s existence, it is impossible to wonder if they might be wrong about the 300 million years as well. Recorded history is only about 5000 years (Sumerian clay tablets), so nothing prior to that is actually “observation” but is based on inference and speculation (not an innately bad thing, just indirect rather than direct observation). That makes the accuracy of the conclusions subject to the validity of the initial assumptions.

Well? They're not wrong about the 300 million years. Because these "things" can be seen through flesh eyes. Just as many many "believers" are wrong that this earth only 6,000 + years old. And? For the SAME reason. Through "flesh" eyes.

What's hard for me too understand is that these same believers who subscribe so faithfully to the 2nd coming of Christ Jesus, thus the "BEGINNING" of the Millennial "age", cannot seem to wrap their singular/corporate minds around the very distinct possibility of there being (how can I say) "everlasting", or "earth/heaven age" PRIOR (and perhaps a couple of priors) to this current earth/heaven age we're ALL living in right now.

We're given "hints" to this in Jeremiah 4, as well as from Peter!

Which gives credence to the translating of Genesis 1:2 this way:
2 And the earth BECAME without form, TRADITIONS OF MEN MADE void the Word of God; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Welp? And the reason this is not believed by many many believers, singularly or corporately, is merely the coming to pass of Christ's words pertaining to His answering His disciples questions concerning the END of THIS current age.
Luke 17:
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.

27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;

29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[GEN2REV]

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
(2 Peter 3:8 KJV)

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
(Psalms 90:4 KJV)
.

Ohh, Roger.

Cognitive Dissonance and stubborn refusal to embrace the Truth of scripture are as sad to see somebody toil with as a foul case of addiction that just won't release its victim.

It is a loathsome sight and a helpless feeling to watch someone circle the drain in such a condition. Nothing one can do until God chooses to enlighten their mind and their path.

I pray you are given eyes to see the ill of your ways before you lead another weak Christian astray.

 

[atpollard]

Why should it mean anything else?....unless of course you want to create a rabbit hole with the likelihood of a dead end and pat on the back from Charlie D.
The definer, 'evening and morning' sounds clear enough....no ambiguity there....why mess it up?

There is a substantial body of circumstantial evidence that the formation of the earth thru the first human beings took more than 120 hours. Different people have offered different possible explanations for the difference between the Genesis 1 account and the geology/paleontology/archaeology evidence. One of those possible explanations is the popular “a day is not 24 hours” explanation.

I do not see the very specific phrase “there was evening and morning, a day” at the end of each Genesis 1 “day” addressed by the “a day is not 24 hours” advocates. I was curious what THEY thought that repeated phrase meant in the context of a “non-24-hour day”.

For those that stand by 144 hours for God to create EVERYTHING, do you really believe the geology and fossil evidence and radioactive decay have been so badly misunderstood? Did the children of Cain hunt T-Rex to keep them from eating the sheep in the years before the Flood?

(I offered my opinions on the first page of the Topic).

 

[GEN2REV]

For those that stand by 144 hours for God to create EVERYTHING, do you really believe the geology and fossil evidence and radioactive decay have been so badly misunderstood? Did the children of Cain hunt T-Rex to keep them from eating the sheep in the years before the Flood?

It's a question of faith, pollard.

Science supports scientific theories - big bang, evolution, etc. If it didn't, the world system would fall apart.

Radioactive, Carbon 14 dating has been proven, for decades now, to be ineffective at dating anything beyond 2 - 3 thousand years. Thus, the time period that the earth was created lies beyond that and cannot be dated by any current technology. The Bible is the only record we have to go by.

If it's too difficult to believe that God Almighty could create things in a single day, or a week for that matter, your concept of Him is ... too small.

He could've created everything in an instant if it pleased Him, but He did it in such a way as to have meaning for many of the things He wanted us to learn and understand. One of them being the 7th Day Sabbath which has many interweaved purposes throughout all of history (past and future) and God's Laws and rules about land management and handling of servants, etc. , etc.

Those who adamantly refuse to accept the Creation Days as literal days do not even consider all of the interconnected meanings and significance that those days represent. They are only interested in reconciling their staunch insistence that the Bible MUST coincide with modern established science like the big bang and evolution.

 

[atpollard]

It's a question of faith, pollard.

“Come, let us reason together.” - God

We are not called to a blind faith. Rather, we are called to TRUTH. Truth will stand up to closer examination and asking hard questions often yields rewards of richer understanding. Why did God place the Tree in the Garden of Eden? Was the fall a mistake in God’s plan or was it something designed for our good and His glory? Asking these questions leads to an amazing truth about just how much God loves us and a plan to transform ‘creatures’ into Children of God united with the GODHEAD.

Radioactive, Carbon 14 dating has been proven, for decades now, to be ineffective at dating anything beyond 2 - 3 thousand years. Thus, the time period that the earth was created lies beyond that and cannot be dated by any current technology. The Bible is the only record we have to go by.

I think Carbon 14 is accurate for a little longer than that, but there are other radioactive elements whose decay can be measured for dating older things. I think Uranium might be accurate for tens of thousands of years. The only “point” is that 6000 years is problematic based on the best evidence available.

If it's too difficult to believe that God Almighty could create things in a single day, or a week for that matter, your concept of Him is ... too small.

The issue for most Christians (on all sides) is not believing what God COULD DO, but trying to understand what God DID DO.

He could've created everything in an instant if it pleased Him, but He did it in such a way as to have meaning for many of the things He wanted us to learn and understand. One of them being the 7th Day Sabbath which has many interweaved purposes throughout all of history (past and future) and God's Laws and rules about land management and handling of servants, etc. , etc.

Clearly God wrote what He wrote BECAUSE of the meaning it had on the many things that He wanted us to understand. However, when God walked the earth in human flesh, He was very fond of speaking in parables and metaphorical language. Lazarus was NOT LITERALLY ASLEEP, and Jesus had to get blunt with the disciples to get them to understand. We cannot ignore the very real possibility that Genesis 1 is another place in the Bible where God is not being 100% literal because He has a more important purpose in his words than explaining the age of the Earth.

Those who adamantly refuse to accept the Creation Days as literal days do not even consider all of the interconnected meanings and significance that those days represent. They are only interested in reconciling their staunch insistence that the Bible MUST coincide with modern established science like the big bang and evolution.

See post #8 for a statement of my beliefs on Genesis 1. I do not fall into the camp of refusing to accept the days as literal. Nor will my faith in God be crushed if Genesis 1 turns out to ultimately be speaking of metaphorical “days”. I presented my case in post #8 for anyone to read if they care what I believe.

a. t. pollard

 

[Happy Trails]

Lots of off-topic opinions about the age of the universe/Earth on another topic, and I had a question, so time for a new topic ...

Genesis 1:

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 And the earth was a formless and desolate emptiness, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. 3 Then God said, “Let there be light”; and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light “day,” and the darkness He called “night.” And there was evening and there was morning, one day.​

Please explain the phrase "And there was evening and there was morning, one day." as an indeterminate long period of time.

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean as a concept apart from the 24-hour "day"?

This will set the tone for all of the other 6 "days" in Genesis 1 that will follow using the same literary pattern.

I have read the mocking tone of some who ask, "how could there be an evening and a morning if the sun was not made until day 4?" However, the role of the sun was to tell us what time it is. It does not cause the day. It merely reports it. A clock does not make the hours and minutes. I am inclined to agree with you regarding the "indeterminate time" idea.

That idea is fostered, I believe, from having been handed a tradition. The traditional Christian view has been that Adam was the first man. "Man" was created, male and female, on day 6 and told to fill up the earth and have dominion over it.

God rested on the 7th day and said, "I have no man to till the ground." After that, God formed a man and told him to tend a newly made garden. "Created on day 6 and told to fill the earth" versus "formed after the first Sabbath and told to tend the Garden." Different time, different process, different instructions.

Mankind could have been here for 2 weeks, or 200,000 years before Adam was formed.

 

[Cooper]

Ohh, Roger.

Cognitive Dissonance and stubborn refusal to embrace the Truth of scripture are as sad to see somebody toil with as a foul case of addiction that just won't release its victim.

It is a loathsome sight and a helpless feeling to watch someone circle the drain in such a condition. Nothing one can do until God chooses to enlighten their mind and their path.

I pray you are given eyes to see the ill of your ways before you lead another weak Christian astray.

How nice of you!
.

 

[Cooper]

I have read the mocking tone of some who ask, "how could there be an evening and a morning if the sun was not made until day 4?" However, the role of the sun was to tell us what time it is. It does not cause the day. It merely reports it. A clock does not make the hours and minutes. I am inclined to agree with you regarding the "indeterminate time" idea.

That idea is fostered, I believe, from having been handed a tradition. The traditional Christian view has been that Adam was the first man. "Man" was created, male and female, on day 6 and told to fill up the earth and have dominion over it.

God rested on the 7th day and said, "I have no man to till the ground." After that, God formed a man and told him to tend a newly made garden. "Created on day 6 and told to fill the earth" versus "formed after the first Sabbath and told to tend the Garden." Different time, different process, different instructions.

Mankind could have been here for 2 weeks, or 200,000 years before Adam was formed.

Who told you that?
.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

A creative day in scripture is a time period sir. We are still in the 7th day, God's day of rest, at least we were in the first century when this was penned:
(Hebrews 4:4-6) 4 For in one place he has said of the seventh day as follows: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works,” 5 and here again he says: “They will not enter into my rest.” 6 Therefore, since it remains for some to enter into it, and those to whom the good news was first declared did not enter in because of disobedience. . .

Hope that helps At

Wrong that is a reinterpretation. God made it very clear what He meant to try to keep us sinful humans from misinterpreting HIM. The clue is found in the phrase < there was an evening and a morning! If God wanted long ages the language He created had perfectly fine words to use to convey that if it was the truth! So time periods is just mans reinterpretation to allow for evolution, or some other gibberish.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it

A normal ususal way of reading and understanding is 6 24 hour days! as we know them! Anything else is a private interpretation.

 

[Cooper]

Wrong that is a reinterpretation. God made it very clear what He meant to try to keep us sinful humans from misinterpreting HIM. The clue is found in the phrase < there was an evening and a morning! If God wanted long ages the language He created had perfectly fine words to use to convey that if it was the truth! So time periods is just mans reinterpretation to allow for evolution, or some other gibberish.

8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:

10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it

A normal ususal way of reading and understanding is 6 24 hour days! as we know them! Anything else is a private interpretation.

That is AFTER creation. The creative act was a one-off.
.

 

[doxley]

What does "there was evening and there was morning" mean as a concept apart from the 24-hour "day"?

So I'm thinking, God first created the light, which he divided up on the first day. He created time. An evening and a morning could be the beginning of our time as we know it, that's why he repeats it. Start counting from here. Day 1. Later he set the luminaries as timepieces so that we could track time/days/seasons accurately. But using the luminaries rather than the initial light, we then track our days from sunset to sunset.

 

[quietthinker]

There is a substantial body of circumstantial evidence that the formation of the earth thru the first human beings took more than 120 hours. Different people have offered different possible explanations for the difference between the Genesis 1 account and the geology/paleontology/archaeology evidence. One of those possible explanations is the popular “a day is not 24 hours” explanation.

I do not see the very specific phrase “there was evening and morning, a day” at the end of each Genesis 1 “day” addressed by the “a day is not 24 hours” advocates. I was curious what THEY thought that repeated phrase meant in the context of a “non-24-hour day”.

For those that stand by 144 hours for God to create EVERYTHING, do you really believe the geology and fossil evidence and radioactive decay have been so badly misunderstood? Did the children of Cain hunt T-Rex to keep them from eating the sheep in the years before the Flood?

(I offered my opinions on the first page of the Topic).

Jesus raised the dead with a few words, he healed cripples and the demon possessed....all with a word. On that basis, I don't think there is any justified reason to question that God's creation took time other than its literal reading.