Genesis 1, a day, and Billions of years

[Cooper]

Yeah, 'cause that's Biblical.

All those who cast aside the 10 Commandments will be cast aside as a branch and will wither and be burned.

We need to go our separate ways. Goodbye.
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[Happy Trails]

So the first few days really can be an unspecified amount of time that is not necessarily 24 hour periods…they aren’t talking about a day as we see a day. They’re rather talking about something other than that.

Understood. Yet, it seems one possibility is seldom, if ever, considered. If Creation was to be like it is, why would the Creator not have simply created it how he wanted it? "Why start with a bang when I can just make the whole Thang?"

 

[Happy Trails]

Who told you that?
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I don't know, exactly. I had heard it a long time ago. Didn't think that much about it. Read some stuff. Talked to a couple of guys I know. Did a little analysis of the text. It seems like a reasonable possibility.

 

[Happy Trails]

Very valid point. Since “God created the heavens and the earth”, I believe that this was the entire universe brought into existence in what science jokingly calls “the Big Bang”. The immense energy that created matter of such magnitude is beyond human comprehension. But science acknowledges that it had a beginning, like all things must.....except the Creator himself.

The sun existed from creation’s beginning along with all the other planets in our small solar system....it generated enough light to allow for photosynthesis of the vegetation but according to Job 38:4-9, it was wrapped up in thick cloud layers in that early stage of preparation, so not visible from the earth’s surface....the moon and stars weren’t visible then either.


I have heard others offer this theory but from my own studies I cannot see how this is possible. Genesis ch 2 does not speak of a different creation but enlarges on details missing from the first account in chapter 1 which is about the order of creation, whereas ch 2 is about the humans.

Genesis 2:1-4
“And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly lights. By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made. This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven.” (NASB)

We see the use of the word “day” here to mean the entire creative process, confirming that this word does not have only one meaning.

But I cannot see room in this account for what you and others suggest. Not only that, but when we consider that God designed humans to live forever on this earth and to act as its custodians or caretakers, we see the “tree of life” in the garden was there to ensure that life continued indefinitely. The only way to be prevented from partaking of this life giving tree was to disobey God’s commands concerning the TKGE. That is what the Bible says happened. (Genesis 3:22-24) Death has plagued our lives ever since....we are enslaved to sin’s wages.

We see from ch 3 onward that because the first humans were placed in a garden and told to “fill the earth and subdue it”....outside of the garden was not inhabited or ‘tamed’ by man. The whole idea of placing them in the garden was to facilitate God’s purpose to have them make the whole world into a garden-like paradise for them and their children, all of whom had the prospect of everlasting life....(but not immortality...that is another interesting topic)

If satan had not entered the picture, they would still be here with us enjoying the blessings of this beautiful planet and God’s myriad creations. If other humans existed prior to Adam and his wife, and these had their own ‘trees of life’ facilitating everlasting life here on earth, where were they when God created Adam? Why is there no mention of them? Speculation is all well and good, but we cannot make those assumptions if the Bible does not specifically state it.

The fact that all humankind have descended from Adam, and that the whole world is far from God’s original purpose, rules out any prior human beings....but it makes us wonder what God was going to do to get his original purpose for free willed humankind, and now rebellious angels, back on track? The Bible tells us how he was going to do that, but it was to be a long range prophesy that was shrouded in mystery for many centuries until the time arrived and God opened up the bigger picture concerning the role of his Messiah and his his kingdom.

So, right there in Eden God promised that a seed that would come to man’s rescue. (Genesis 3:15) He would suffer a temporary heel wound, but would ultimately inflict a fatal head wound on God’s adversary and eliminate all who succumbed to his deceptions....he is the one responsible for all our troubles.

That seed was of course, Jesus Christ, who was to offer his life for the redemption of Adam’s children. (Romans 5:12; 1 Corinthians 15:22)
So, no other humans could have been in existence because it would make Christ’s sacrifice meaningless....and it would not explain why the other humans were not still alive. God did not create us to die....everlasting life was to be enjoyed right here.....only disobedience would bring death. There were no “natural” causes. Ageing and death feel as “unnatural” today as they did back in Eden....neither of them were supposed to happen, so that is why we have no ‘program’ for death, either of ourselves or our loved ones.

The Bible itself fills in the blanks if we let it.....

Creation was completed.

Then, Adam was formed. "Created" would be from nothing. "Formed" would be from existing material.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Creation was completed.

Then, Adam was formed. "Created" would be from nothing. "Formed" would be from existing material.

All creation was complete at the close of the 6th creative “day”. Adam and his wife were then given instructions as to how to live the life God had given them. There was only one cause of death, and if they had not contravened that one simple command, they would still be here with us enjoying life as it was meant to be. But they fell for the devil’s lies and here we are.

What have we learned? Precious little by the looks... But we have no excuse.

 

[GEN2REV]

We need to go our separate ways. Goodbye.
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One way or another.

 

[Happy Trails]

All creation was complete at the close of the 6th creative “day”. Adam and his wife were then given instructions as to how to live the life God had given them. There was only one cause of death, and if they had not contravened that one simple command, they would still be here with us enjoying life as it was meant to be. But they fell for the devil’s lies and here we are.

What have we learned? Precious little by the looks... But we have no excuse.

Right. Creation was completed on day 6. Adam was not created. He was formed.

He could have been formed at any time after creation was finished. The distinction is the process used for making them. Whatever happened with the devil is not the issue here.

 

[Happy Trails]

sorry, but you don't get to redefine simple terms to make creation thousands or millions of years. this sounds like the old day-age theory which is nothing more than an attempt to rectify the bible with the false science of Darwinian evolution.

How am I redefining any term?

I never suggested anything about evolution.

 

[Nancy]

Jesus raised the dead with a few words, he healed cripples and the demon possessed....all with a word. On that basis, I don't think there is any justified reason to question that God's creation took time other than its literal reading.

"I don't think there is any justified reason to question that God's creation took time other than its literal reading"

Maybe one thing Q.T..

God is not subject to "time" at all, He's not subject to ANY thing. He simply "speaks" all things into existence.
Would love to read a good contrast between time and eternity.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Right. Creation was completed on day 6. Adam was not created. He was formed.

If you read Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God "created" the heavens and the earth".....it uses the same word that v27 uses...."bārā'" which means "to create, shape, form".
If God "formed" the humans, he also "formed" the Universe. If he "created" the Universe, he also "created" the humans.

He could have been formed at any time after creation was finished. The distinction is the process used for making them. Whatever happened with the devil is not the issue here.

Since humans are part of creation I don't see how that is possible....?
Genesis 1:27 says...
"And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them."

Jesus quoted that scripture when he was answering the Pharisees on the sticky question of divorce...he said..
"And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them, and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart." (Matthew 19:5-6)

I believe that you are reading into scripture what you want to see rather than what is actually written. This is why we study the Bible...because it explains itself....if you don't let your imagination run away with you....

 

[Aunty Jane]

"I don't think there is any justified reason to question that God's creation took time other than its literal reading"

That is the point though...what is the "literal reading" according to how the Jews understood the word "yôm". (day)
We ourselves use the word to mean more than a literal 24 hour day....so did they.

If we speak of our grandfather's "day", we understand exactly what it means. Or we might speak of 'the dawn of a new era'. meaning the beginning of a new time period or age.

Its knowing how the original language is understood that is important...not how it sounds in English.
Bible languages also have different phrasing to ours. God is not limited or restricted by the rotation of our tiny planet.

See how long some other planets take for a single rotation....

Mercury 58.6 Earth days
Venus 243 Earth days
Earth 23 hours, 56 minutes
Mars 24 hours, 37 minutes
Jupiter 9 hours, 55 minutes
Saturn 10 hours, 33 minutes
Uranus 17 hours, 14 minutes
Neptune 15 hours, 57 minutes
Pluto 6.4 Earth days

This makes the time period for creation to be in literal days rather meaningless.
Venus e.g. takes 243 of our days to rotate once.
Mercury takes more than 58 days to equal one of ours.

Time doesn't mean much to an infinite Being who is outside of our planet's time.

 

[Happy Trails]

If you read Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God "created" the heavens and the earth".....it uses the same word that v27 uses...."bārā'" which means "to create, shape, form".
If God "formed" the humans, he also "formed" the Universe. If he "created" the Universe, he also "created" the humans.


Since humans are part of creation I don't see how that is possible....?
Genesis 1:27 says...
"And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them."

Jesus quoted that scripture when he was answering the Pharisees on the sticky question of divorce...he said..
"And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them, and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart." (Matthew 19:5-6)

I believe that you are reading into scripture what you want to see rather than what is actually written. This is why we study the Bible...because it explains itself....if you don't let your imagination run away with you....

You are telling me what you believe without any evidence for your claim. "I believe you are a fire-breathing dragon," has equal merit as an opinion.
The Bible says mankind was created on day 6, YHVH rested on day 7, and then formed a man out of the dust. Molding something from existing material is not creation. Your citation of Jesus' words also doesn't seem to be on point.

 

[Happy Trails]

That is the point though...what is the "literal reading" according to how the Jews understood the word "yôm". (day)
We ourselves use the word to mean more than a literal 24 hour day....so did they.

If we speak of our grandfather's "day", we understand exactly what it means. Or we might speak of 'the dawn of a new era'. meaning the beginning of a new time period or age.

Its knowing how the original language is understood that is important...not how it sounds in English.
Bible languages also have different phrasing to ours. God is not limited or restricted by the rotation of our tiny planet.

See how long some other planets take for a single rotation....

Mercury 58.6 Earth days
Venus 243 Earth days
Earth 23 hours, 56 minutes
Mars 24 hours, 37 minutes
Jupiter 9 hours, 55 minutes
Saturn 10 hours, 33 minutes
Uranus 17 hours, 14 minutes
Neptune 15 hours, 57 minutes
Pluto 6.4 Earth days

This makes the time period for creation to be in literal days rather meaningless.
Venus e.g. takes 243 of our days to rotate once.
Mercury takes more than 58 days to equal one of ours.

Time doesn't mean much to an infinite Being who is outside of our planet's time.

Time means everything to him. From page 1 of the Bible he has said that his calendar was dictated by the heavenly bodies. The evil ruler of Daniel 7 is credited with changing times and laws as one of the characteristics of his rebellion. The duration of the revolution of heavenly bodies has nothing to do with it.

 

[Aunty Jane]

You are telling me what you believe without any evidence for your claim. "I believe you are a fire-breathing dragon," has equal merit as an opinion.
The Bible says mankind was created on day 6, YHVH rested on day 7, and then formed a man out of the dust. Molding something from existing material is not creation. Your citation of Jesus' words also doesn't seem to be on point.

The Bible is its only evidence.....it doesn't need more...

You are assuming that Genesis ch2 is speaking about another creation event, but it isn't. As I demonstrated to you in my other post. Genesis 2 is a more detailed account of the same creative work, more focused on the humans.
God did not form the man on day 7.....what Bible are you reading?

Genesis 1:26-27...
"Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” 27 And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. . .
After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good.

31 And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day."

Genesis 2:1-4....
"Thus the heavens and the earth and everything in them were completed. 2 And by the seventh day, God had completed the work that he had been doing, and he began to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had been doing. 3 And God went on to bless the seventh day and to declare it sacred, for on it God has been resting from all the work that he has created, all that he purposed to make.

4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."
Then the account goes into detail about God's creation of the humans. The word translated "history" there is "tôlḏôṯ" and it means...
"descendants, results, proceedings, generations, genealogies

1. account of men and their descendants
   
   1. genealogical list of one's descendants
      
      
   2. one's contemporaries
      
      
   3. course of history (of creation etc)"

So I believe that you have been led down a slippery slope scripturally speaking. Imaginative I will grant you...but not substantiated by the rest of scripture. There is one creation event that took seven periods of undefined time.....and the seventh day has not yet ended....as Paul confirmed.

 

[NayborBear]

Understood. Yet, it seems one possibility is seldom, if ever, considered. If Creation was to be like it is, why would the Creator not have simply created it how he wanted it? "Why start with a bang when I can just make the whole Thang?"

Cuz that's how HE operates! HE does that which PLEASES HIM!

AS far as the "big bang" goes? (Nuns with guns )
Methinks the Archangel Michael KICKING satan out of heaven to earth jez MIGHT make for a pretty big bang, eh?
Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Although this thread speaks of "time" at the creation? A "short" time COULD very well mean 6,000 some years yanno? Or longer.

 

[quietthinker]

"I don't think there is any justified reason to question that God's creation took time other than its literal reading"

Maybe one thing Q.T..

God is not subject to "time" at all, He's not subject to ANY thing. He simply "speaks" all things into existence.
Would love to read a good contrast between time and eternity.

The Created Earth rotated on its axis taking 24 hrs to complete a full rotation. Ever wondered why 24? ..and who or what determines the hour anyway? Was it arbitrary?...is God arbitrary? or is all he says and does with deliberate purpose?
12 & 24 are numbers repeated in various sequences in scripture....more to chew or at least put on the shelf till the confluence of information generates an ah-ha moment.

 

[Cooper]

The Bible is its only evidence.....it doesn't need more...

You are assuming that Genesis ch2 is speaking about another creation event, but it isn't. As I demonstrated to you in my other post. Genesis 2 is a more detailed account of the same creative work, more focused on the humans.
God did not form the man on day 7.....what Bible are you reading?

Genesis 1:26-27...
"Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” 27 And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. . .
After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good.

31 And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day."

Genesis 2:1-4....
"Thus the heavens and the earth and everything in them were completed. 2 And by the seventh day, God had completed the work that he had been doing, and he began to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had been doing. 3 And God went on to bless the seventh day and to declare it sacred, for on it God has been resting from all the work that he has created, all that he purposed to make.

4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."
Then the account goes into detail about God's creation of the humans. The word translated "history" there is "tôlḏôṯ" and it means...
"descendants, results, proceedings, generations, genealogies

1. account of men and their descendants
   1. genealogical list of one's descendants
      
      
   2. one's contemporaries
      
      
   3. course of history (of creation etc)"

So I believe that you have been led down a slippery slope scripturally speaking. Imaginative I will grant you...but not substantiated by the rest of scripture. There is one creation event that took seven periods of undefined time.....and the seventh day has not yet ended....as Paul confirmed.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Genesis 2:7 KJV)

Grandfathers day is a lifetime. Not 24 hours.

I think she has me on ignore, so she will not have seen this.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It takes millions of years for the light from the stars to reach earth.
That is how long and more beside, the earth was in the making.

"Stars are found in large groups called galaxies. A galaxy can have millions or billions of stars. The nearest large galaxy to us, Andromeda, is 2.5 million light-years away. So, we see Andromeda as it was 2.5 million years in the past. The universe is filled with billions of galaxies, all farther away than this. Some of these galaxies are much farther away."
.

Well in Genesis we see that God created the stars to give light to the earth and for signs and seasons. God could have created the light paths when He created the stars! I will trust an infallible god rather than fallible scientists to set a time frame!

 

[Nancy]

The Created Earth rotated on its axis taking 24 hrs to complete a full rotation. Ever wondered why 24? ..and who or what determines the hour anyway? Was it arbitrary?...is God arbitrary? or is all he says and does with deliberate purpose?
12 & 24 are numbers repeated in various sequences in scripture....more to chew or at least put on the shelf till the confluence of information generates an ah-ha moment.

True, another member replied in much the same way you did brother.
I was speaking more of time vs eternity, eternity being "no shifting of "shadows" so for Him, there is no time but, He created time for us.

On day 4 when He said "let there be light"...would the sun, moon and stars have just appeared or, would it have taken a 24 hour day for it to form, or one thousand years?
It's strange that God should take a day of rest as He is all powerful...does He tire? I mean, all He has to do is "speak", and nature responds. Sorry, just kind of jumped in the middle of this without reading the other posts.
It's fun to ponder the wonder of Him.

 

[Cooper]

Well in Genesis we see that God created the stars to give light to the earth and for signs and seasons. God could have created the light paths when He created the stars! I will trust an infallible god rather than fallible scientists to set a time frame!

On the First Day God created light and HE saw it was Good.

On the Fourth Day God said let there be lights in the firmament (sky) and then WE saw the Sun Moon and Stars here on earth.

It took that long for the light to travel the vast distances and we are talking millions of years.

Day simply means a period of time depending on context. After creation our day as you know is measured by the sun, but remember, we are still in God's seventh day and that is a very long time

Remember this fundamental truth:

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Peter 3:8 KJV)

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. (Psalms 90:4 KJV)

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