Christians are not under the New Covenant

[theefaith]

Sounds like a trick question to me. But the truth is ....It's a "yes" and a "no"!

It is a "yes" when you post things that are clearly opinions based on what the RCC has taught their parishioners to believe that clearly contradicts God's Word. But it would be a "no" if is was clear that you had chosen to question the teachings of the RCC and done some research that helped you to see things the way they are intended to be and helped you in such a manner that, if you were truly seeking truth, you could not deny the fact that you and millions of others have been taught false doctrines for centuries.

The link between "biblical authority" and "interpretation" was a hallmark of Protestant thought. A byproduct of the Reformation’s doctrine of sola Scriptura was the development of resources, such as concordances and study guides, to help readers become more proficient in expounding Scripture. Drawing upon the Reformers’ insights, here are four handy hermeneutical tools to help you “rightly divide” the hard sayings of the Bible (2 Tim. 2:15).

First, know the context. The most fundamental rule in biblical interpretation is the analogy of Scripture. Let Scripture interpret Scripture. Every biblical text is situated in a biblical context. Take time to define difficult words, locate unknown places, and summarize the main point of the passage. Ask how the verse in question contributes to the logic of the chapter and the plotline of the book. Compare unclear passages with clearer portions of the Bible that refer to the same teaching or event. Returning to John 6, Jesus’ comments about the bread of life should not only be read against the backdrop of the feeding of the five thousand but also in reference to God’s providing manna for Israel in Exodus 16 and Numbers 11.

Second, check your theology. The Reformers also emphasized the analogy of faith. No interpretation should contradict the overall theology of Scripture. Although your grammatical-historical analysis may be complete, if your interpretation compromises the truths of the Christian faith, you can be sure that you have interpreted the text incorrectly. A solid confession of faith and a trusty systematic theology are invaluable resources for outlining the orthodox boundaries within which biblical exegesis flourishes.

Third, listen to the saints of scripture writers. While church history and current biblical scholarship are not inherently authoritative and can at times reflect minimal doctrinal consensus, exegesis does not occur in a historical vacuum. The best exegetes learn from the communion of the saints; the writers of books in the Bible. The ascended Christ has given teachers and preachers for the purpose of helping His people understand His Word better. Commentaries, study Bibles, and sermons are among the exegete’s best friends but they should never be the FINAL WORD. Check your interpretations against the findings of the very best biblical interpreters both in the past and present.

Finally, rely on the Spirit. Biblical interpretation is a spiritual exercise. We must depend upon the illuminating work of the Holy Spirit to avoid error and interpret the Word of God correctly. As Jesus states, “It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all” (John 6:63). Jesus’ words are hard not because they are obscure but because they are impossible to believe without the Holy Spirit.

then why send the apostles to teach all nations? Matt 28:19
Acts 2;42 doctrine of the apostles not the “Bible alone”!

 

[theefaith]

Can you explain...

~ what, or who, you mean by teaching authority? Do you mean only the RCC as everyone's teaching authority?
~ what do you mean by his church? Is it the Roman Catholic church only?
~ are you saying that all those verses about Mary's family that I posted from scripture are false and heretical and that the RCC is the only correct teaching?​

If you still deny those verses of mine above about Mary's children, then how do you explain these three verses?

Mat 1:25...but knew her not until she had borne a son; and he called his name Jesus.
Gal 1:19 - But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother.
1Co 15:7 - Then he appeared to James, [the Lord's brother] then to all the apostles.
​

Without altering any of these three scripture verses, are you going to say that they are heretical?

no just you’re understanding

it does not say the had sex after that point

it does not say James is Mary’s son or he would be God! Lk 1:35

James fathers are zebedee and alphaeus Matt 10:2-3

it does not say James is biological brother, there are other kinds of brother and any relatives in Hebrew culture are called brother like Abraham and lot

cousins are called brother

the Bible never said may had sex, just the opposite Lk 1:34 and never said anyone is a biological child of Mary except Jesus by the HS

 

[Moriah's Song]

then why send the apostles to teach all nations? Matt 28:19

Because the Great Commission" was to go "out from Jerusalem." That was to fulfill an OT prophecy.

Acts 2;42 doctrine of the apostles not the “Bible alone”!

That verse says...."
Act 2:42..."And they devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers."

First, it was not "the doctrine of the apostles." The apostles did not create the doctrine we have in scripture. They are the words that Jesus taught them about himself from the OT that later became our "Bible."

That verse refers to what they did just after Peter's Pentecostal sermon. The writings of the New Testament was not even a thought at that point. However, Jesus had previously taught his disciples about himself concerning the OT scriptures that pointed forward to his death and resurrection and it is very interesting that they still did not totally comprehend the totality of what had been going on for 3 1/2 years until Jesus suddenly appeared and "breathed the Holy Spirit on them." It was then that they got the whole picture. Yet, none of the 4 gospels were written until years later - dates varied between 50 and 100 A.D.

The group that was "gathered together" would have been the 120 in the upper room that would later become "missionaries" to areas outside Jerusalem. So it probably had not even occurred to them at that point in time to put into writing what they had just experienced at the cross, or what had taken place on the Day of Pentecost either. Also, Paul had not even become an apostle at that point and neither had Stephen become the first martyr either.

 

[Moriah's Song]

no just you’re understanding
- it does not say the had sex after that point
- it does not say James is Mary’s son or he would be God! Lk 1:35
- James fathers are zebedee and alphaeus Matt 10:2-3
- it does not say James is biological brother, there are other kinds of brother and any relatives in Hebrew culture are called brother like Abraham and lot
- cousins are called brother
- the Bible never said may had sex, just the opposite Lk 1:34 and never said anyone is a biological child of Mary except Jesus by the HS

It is not just my understanding. That is the main reason I post as much scripture as possible to show that is "not my understanding" but what scripture has to say about it. Exegesis is one thing. Eisegesis is another ballgame...

What is the difference between exegesis and eisegesis?

• A difference exists between exegesis and eisegesis. Exegesis means that one allows the text to speak for itself whereas eisegesis indicates that one makes the text say what they want it to say. Individuals who desire to know the actual truth of the Scripture will practice exegetical practices. (www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-exegesis-and-hermeneutics

"Eisegesis" is what you do to scripture because of the indoctrination of the RCC. You put the RCC over scripture whereas I see commentaries, lexicons, dictionaries and even my own pastors thoughts sometimes as either being on target or false and therefore I discard them after making sure I am not the one who is in error. But the last thing I want to do is twist God's Holy Word to fit into my thoughts. I will give you an example of how mankind can twist scripture to fit ones whims....

(True story. I was walking into the side door at McDonalds as saw a girl with a yellow tee-shirt going out the front door. On the back of her shirt was the wording..."God rides a motorcycle!" I almost upchucked. Our Holy God does not ride a motorcycle around heaven's throne!

 

[keithr]

it does not say James is Mary’s son or he would be God! Lk 1:35

Your powers of deduction and logic are appalling! Luke 1:35 is referring to a one-off event that resulted in the conception of Jesus. There is absolutely no reason to suppose that if Mary had another child, with Joseph as the father, that the child would be God. Remember - "God is not a man ... nor a son of man" (Numbers 23:19), and God already existed!

James fathers are zebedee and alphaeus Matt 10:2-3

Matthew 10:2-3 (WEB):

(2) Now the names of the twelve apostles are these. The first, Simon, who is called Peter; Andrew, his brother; James the son of Zebedee; John, his brother;
(3) Philip; Bartholomew; Thomas; Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus; Lebbaeus, who was also called Thaddaeus;​

Also refer back to Matthew 4:21:

(21) Going on from there, he saw two other brothers, James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, in the boat with Zebedee their father, mending their nets. He called them.​

Those verses mention two different men, both called James, with two different fathers. How can you think that means that there was one man who had two different fathers?! Again, totally illogical reasoning. The first James mentioned had a brother, John, who was also one of Jesus' 12 disciples (you may have heard of him). Jesus' brothers were named James, Joses, Judah, and Simon (Mark 6:3), so John was not Jesus' brother, so neither could the mentioned James (the son of Zebedee) have been.

the Bible never said may had sex, just the opposite Lk 1:34 and never said anyone is a biological child of Mary except Jesus by the HS

Again, illogical. My mother was a virgin. Later she became pregnant six times and had six children. Likewise Mary was a virgin at the time she said she was a virgin, but that does not mean that she remained a virgin. The expression "know her" in Matthew 1:25 obviously implies intimate, sexual realations, and the WEB therefore translates it to make that clear:

(24) Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took his wife to himself;
(25) and didn’t know her sexually until she had given birth to her firstborn son. He named him Jesus.​

It otherwise doesn't make any sense, for Joseph obviously knew Mary! The same expression is used in the Old Testament when Tamar tricked Judah into having sexual intercourse with her - Gen 38:26 (WEB):

(26) Judah acknowledged them, and said, “She is more righteous than I, because I didn’t give her to Shelah, my son.” He knew her again no more.​

 

[Moriah's Song]

it does not say James is Mary’s son or he would be God! Lk 1:35

And the angel said to her,
"The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Most High will overshadow you;
therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God." (Luk 1:35)​

James certainly was not Mary's firstborn son and you know that because the very word "firstborn" implies that there were others after Mary gave birth to Jesus as we have provided plenty of verses that refute the RCC's false claims.. It's a strawman's weakest and absured argument as the angel of the Lord in Luke 1:35 is speaking to the virgin Mary about her son to be - Emmanuel (God with us). James was not even a thought to Mary at that time. Your desperation of holding onto the RCC's false teachings is clear to me.

Why are you still avoiding the truth of scripture that clearly says...

Mat 13:55...Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
Gal 1:19 - But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother.
1Co 15:7 - Then he appeared to James, [the Lord's brother] then to all the apostles.​

 

[Moriah's Song]

the Bible never said may had sex, just the opposite Lk 1:34 and never said anyone is a biological child of Mary except Jesus by the HS

There is another verse in scripture that lends support for "marriage".....

"And Pharisees came to him intent on testing him, and they asked: “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife on every sort of grounds?” 4 In reply he said: “Have you not read that the one who created them from the beginning made them male and female 5 and said: ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and his mother and will stick to his wife, and the two will be one flesh’? 6 So that they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has yoked together, let no man put apart.”

God is not a God of contradiction. When God said "Be fruitful and multiply" the angel that spoke to Mary would have said to Mary..."You must remain a virgin even though you gave birth to the only Son of God."

 

[theefaith]

And the angel said to her,
"The Holy Spirit will come upon you,
and the power of the Most High will overshadow you;
therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God." (Luk 1:35)​

James certainly was not Mary's firstborn son and you know that because the very word "firstborn" implies that there were others after Mary gave birth to Jesus as we have provided plenty of verses that refute the RCC's false claims.. It's a strawman's weakest and absured argument as the angel of the Lord in Luke 1:35 is speaking to the virgin Mary about her son to be - Emmanuel (God with us). James was not even a thought to Mary at that time. Your desperation of holding onto the RCC's false teachings is clear to me.

Why are you still avoiding the truth of scripture that clearly says...

Mat 13:55...Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?
Gal 1:19 - But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother.
1Co 15:7 - Then he appeared to James, [the Lord's brother] then to all the apostles.​

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

 

[Moriah's Song]

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

I cannot find your exact quote in the Bibles I have checked. What version are you using please.

 

[Jim B]

Brothers and sisters of Jesus?

They are not the children of Mary!

Is 7:14 a virgin shall conceive and bear a son!
(One son, singular)

James is the son of zebedee, and the other James is the son of Alpheus not Joseph!
Matt 10:2-3

In Hebrew culture any close relative can be called brother or sister, lot was called Abraham’s brother but was his nephew.

Gen 12:5 and Abram took Sarai his wife, and Lot his brother's son..

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

The 12 sons of Jacob are brothers but all are not the children of Leah and all are not the children of Rachel! They had 4 mother’s, These may be brothers but they are simply not the children of One mother and the brothers of Jesus are not the children of Mary!

Jose’s, Simon Salome are children of another Mary!

Mk 15:40 There were also women looking on afar off: among whom was Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses, and Salome;

Regarding your first point: So, Mary didn't have twins with her first pregnancy! BTW, the word translated "virgin" in Isaiah 7:14 also means "young woman". Though the Hebrew word used here (עַלְמָה, ʿalmah) can sometimes refer to a woman who is a virgin (Gen 24:43), it does not carry this meaning inherently. The word seems to pertain to age, not sexual experience, and would normally be translated “young woman.” (Source: NET translator's note)

Matthew 13:55, "Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t his mother named Mary? And aren’t his brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?

 

[theefaith]

I cannot find your exact quote in the Bibles I have checked. What version are you using please.

Genesis 13:8
King James Version

8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Scripture takes PRIORITY over anything anyone says or writes outside of scripture and should always be checked with scripture to verify that it does not contradict the written "Word."

Absolutely Correct, Because:

1)
"I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy HOLY
Name for Thy LovingKindness and for Thy TRUTH: for Thou
Hast MAGNIFIED Thy WORD Above All Thy Name!"
( Psalms 138:2 KJB! )

2)
1Co_4:6 "And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred
to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us

NOT to think above That Which Is WRITTEN,

that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."

Conclusion: Is not anyone and anything claiming To "Be EQUAL/HIGHER"
Than "God's HOLY Name," doing the EXACT Same thing as the original
Proud [perpetraitor?] perpetrator who claimed the following?:

Isa 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the
mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;

I will be like The Most High. ​

Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

I don't believe that "WE should Even Be thinking about such a thing," as
"he did weaken the nations," and today, WE would be "puffed up for one
against another" [as SEEN "ALL over the internet"], Correct?

Also, these MAY be helpful For Diligent students to avoid Contradictions, eh?:
Bible "study" Rules!

Thanks Be Unto God, For HIS "Blessed Teacher, The Holy Spirit!"

Amen? GRACE And Peace...

 

[theefaith]

Absolutely Correct, Because:

1)
"I will worship toward Thy holy temple, and praise Thy HOLY
Name for Thy LovingKindness and for Thy TRUTH: for Thou
Hast MAGNIFIED Thy WORD Above All Thy Name!"
( Psalms 138:2 KJB! )

2)
1Co_4:6 "And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred
to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us

NOT to think above That Which Is WRITTEN,

that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."

Conclusion: Is not anyone and anything claiming To "Be EQUAL/HIGHER"
Than "God's HOLY Name," doing the EXACT Same thing as the original
Proud [perpetraitor?] perpetrator who claimed the following?:

Isa 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isa 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the
mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isa 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;

I will be like The Most High. ​

Isa 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

I don't believe that "WE should Even Be thinking about such a thing," as
"he did weaken the nations," and today, WE would be "puffed up for one
against another" [as SEEN "ALL over the internet"], Correct?

Also, these MAY be helpful For Diligent students to avoid Contradictions, eh?:
Bible "study" Rules!

Thanks Be Unto God, For HIS "Blessed Teacher, The Holy Spirit!"

Amen? GRACE And Peace...

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!


Successors of Jesus Christ!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Same mission, power, and authority Jn 20:21-23

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the world,so the successors of the apostles must remain until the end of the world) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)


Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Gen 13:8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdsmen and thy herdsmen; for we are Brothers.

Genesis 13:8
King James Version

8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.

Just what I thought! You changed the word in your first post of Gen 13:8 to "Brothers" when they were NOT "Brothers" because Lot was the son of Abram's brother! Abram's brother's name was Haran. Haran was Lot's father; Abram was Lot's uncle and the correct word is "kindred"!

This was very dishonest of you!

 

[GodsGrace]

Genesis 13:8
King James Version

8 And Abram said unto Lot, Let there be no strife, I pray thee, between me and thee, and between my herdmen and thy herdmen; for we be brethren.

You know theefaith, I'm not Catholic due to disagreements with doctrine - but I do know the doctrine -
and I must say, you do a disservice to the CC.

It would be better if you just did not involve your church at all and just spoke generally about different topics that come up.
Stop trying to protect your church - you're not doing a good job of it.

 

[GodsGrace]

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!


Successors of Jesus Christ!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

Same mission, power, and authority Jn 20:21-23

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

Matt 16:18-19
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Isa 22:21-22
21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the world,so the successors of the apostles must remain until the end of the world) matt 28:19

(None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)


Successors of Moses!

Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


apostolic succession!

explicit and implicit in scripture

Judas was an apostle
Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

I agree with you as far as the early church goes...
Then man's pride and arrogance and power-seeking got in the way of the pure faith.
I also believe the CC is trying to get back to basics,,,but it might be too late.
Especially with the distancing this Pope has caused with orthodox catholics. (not Orthodox).

But I have a question for you...
HOW do we know what the Apostles doctrine is
and is it different from the N.T. writings?

 

[Moriah's Song]

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Not by the Roman Catholic Church - we are governed by the Word of God, not by any so-called pope.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Roman Catholic List of Heresies, Adopted and Perpetuated by the Roman Catholic Institution in the Course of Over 1600 Years​

These dates are in many cases approximate. Many of these heresies were present in the "Church" many years before their formal acceptance.

310 - Prayers for the dead and the sign of the cross began 300 years after Christ.
375 - Veneration of angels and dead saints, and the use of images, about.
394 - The mass, as a daily celebration, adopted.
431 - The worship of Mary, the mother of Jesus, and the term, "Mother of God", originated in the Council of Ephesus.
500 - Priests began to dress differently from the "laity" in.
526 - Extreme Unction. (last rites) In the case of immanent death, the Eucharist is offered as Viaticum, food for the journey to the Father. (a heresy)
593 - (date is appx.) The doctrine of Purgatory was first established by Pope Gregory "the Great".
600 - The Latin language, as the language of prayer and worship in churches, was also imposed by Pope Gregory I, 600 years after Christ. (Note: The Word of God forbids praying and teaching in an unknown tongue. (1 Cor. 14:9)
600 - (date is appx.) Prayers began to be directed to Mary, angels and dead saints. The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone; minimally to Jesus. (Matt. 11:28; Luke. 1:46; Acts 10:25,26; 14:14-18)
610- The title of pope or universal bishop, was first given to the bishop of Rome by the wicked emperor Phocas. (Note: This he did to spite Ciriacus, bishop of Constantinople, who had excommunicated him for his having caused the assassination of his predecessor emperor Mauritius. Gregory I, then bishop of Rome, refused the title, but his successor, Boniface III, first assumed the title "pope." The Papacy is of pagan origin. Jesus did not appoint Peter to the headship of the apostles and forbade any such notion. (Luke. 22:24-26; Eph. 1:22,23; Col. 1:18; 1 Cor. 3:11). Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter was ever in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter was ever in Rome.
709 - Kissing of the pope's foot began with Pope Constantine. (Note: It had been a pagan custom to kiss the feet of emperors. The Word of God forbids such practices. (Acts 10:25,26; Rev. 19:10; 22:9)
750 - The temporal power of the popes began. (Note: When Pepin, the usurper of the throne of France, descended into Italy, called by Pope Stephen II, to war against the Italian Lombards, he defeated them and gave the city of Rome and surrounding territory to the pope. Jesus expressly forbade such a thing, and He Himself refused worldly kingship. (Matt. 4:8,9; 20:25,26; John. 18:38)
788 - Worship of the cross, of images and relics was authorized. (Note: This was by order of Dowager Empress Irene of Constantinople, who first caused the eyes of her own son, Constantine VI, to be plucked out, and then called a church council at the request of Hadrian I, pope of Rome at that time. IDOLATRY in the Bible, and is severely condemned. (Exod. 20:4; Deut. 27:15; Psalm 115)
850 - Holy water, mixed with a pinch of salt and blessed by the priest was authorized.
890 - The worship of St. Joseph began.
927 - The College of Cardinals established.
965 - The baptism of bells was instituted by Pope John XIV.
995 - Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV. (Note: Every believer and follower of Christ is called a saint in the Bible. (Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:2)
998 - Fasting on Fridays and during Lent were imposed. (Note: Imposed by popes said to be interested in the commerce of fish. A bull, or permit to eat meat, some authorities say, began in the year 700. This is against the plain teaching of the Bible. (Matt. 15:11; 1 Cor. 10:25; 1 Tim. 4:1-3)
11th century - The mass was developed gradually as a sacrifice; attendance made obligatory. (Note: The Bible teaches that the sacrifice of Christ was offered once and for all, and is not to be repeated, but only commemorated in the Lord's Supper. (Heb. 7:27; 9:26-28; 10:10-14)
1079 - The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand. (Note: Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, Peter was a married man, and Paul says that bishops could have a wife and children. (1 Tim. 3:2-5,12; Matt. 8:14,15)
1090 - The rosary, the mechanical praying with prayer beads, was introduced by Peter the Hermit; copied from Hindus and Mohammedans.
1184 - The Inquisition of heretics was instituted by the Council of Verona. (Jesus never used force to spread His religion.
1190 - The sale of indulgences, commonly regarded as a purchase of forgiveness and a permit to indulge in sin. (Note: Christianity, as taught in the Bible, condemns such a traffic.)
1215 - The dogma of Transubstantiation was decreed by Pope Innocent III. (Note: By this doctrine the priest pretends to perform a daily miracle by changing a wafer into the body of Christ, and then he pretends to eat Him alive in the presence of his people during mass. The Gospel condemns such absurdities; for the Lord's Supper is simply a memorial of the sacrifice of Christ. The spiritual presence of Christ is implied in the Lord's Supper. (Luke. 22:19,20; John. 6:35; 1 Cor. 11:26)
1215 - Auricular confession of sins to a priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III, in the Lateran Council. (Note: The Bible commands us to confess our sins directly to God. (Psa. 51:1-10; Luke. 7:48; 15:21; 1 John. 1:8,9)
1220 - The adoration of the wafer (the host) was decreed by Pope Honorius. (Note: So the Roman Church worships a god made by human hands. This is idolatry and absolutely contrary to the spirit of the Gospel. (John. 4:24)
1229 - The Bible forbidden to "laymen" and placed on the Index of Forbidden Books. (Note: Jesus commanded that the Scriptures should be read by all. (John. 5:39; 1 Tim. 3:15-17)
1287 - The scapular, invented by Simon Stock, an English monk. (Note: It is a piece of brown cloth, with a picture of the Virgin, and supposed to contain supernatural virtue to protect from all dangers those who wear it on the naked skin. This is fetishism.)
1414 - The Roman Church forbade the cup to the "laity", by instituting the communion of one kind in the Council of Constance. (Note: The Gospel commands us to celebrate the Lord's Supper with both bread and the fruit of the vine. (Matt. 26:27; 1 Cor. 11:26-29)
1439 - The doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by the Council of Florence. (Note: There is not one word in the Bible that would teach the purgatory of priests. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sins. (1 Jn. 1:7-9; 2:1,2; Jn. 5:24; Rom. 8:1)
1439 - The doctrine of seven sacraments affirmed. (Note: The Gospel says that Christ instituted only two ordinances, Baptism and the Lord's Supper. (Matt. 28:19,20; 26:26-28)
1508 - The Ave Maria. (Completed fifty years later, finally approved by Pope Sixtus V, at the end of the 16th century.
1534 - The Jesuit Order founded by Loyola.
1545 - The Council of Trent, held in the year 1545, declared that Tradition is of equal authority with the Bible. (Note: By Tradition is meant human teachings. The Pharisees believed the same way, and Jesus condemned them, for by human tradition they nullified the commandments of God. (Mk. 7:7-13; Col. 2:8; Rev. 22:18)
1546 - The apocryphal books were added to the Bible also by the Council of Trent. (Note: These books were not recognized as canonical by the Jewish Church. (Rev. 22:8,9)
1560 - The Creed of Pope Pius IV was imposed as the official creed. (Note: True Christians retain the Holy Scriptures as their creed, which is 1500 years older than the creed of Roman Catholics. (Gal. 1:18)
1854 - The Immaculate Conception of the virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX . (Note: All men, except Christ, are sinners. Mary also needed a Savior. (Rom. 3:23; 5:12; Psa. 51:5; Lk. 1:30,46,47)
1864 - The Syllabus of Errors, proclaimed by Pope Pius IX. (Note: This condemned freedom of religion, conscience, speech, press, and scientific discoveries which are disapproved by the Roman Church; asserted the pope's temporal authority over all civil rulers.
1870 - Pope Pius IX proclaimed the dogma of Papal Infallibility. (This is a blasphemy and a sign of the apostasy and of the antichrist predicted by Paul. (2 Thess. 2:2-12; Rev. 17:1-9; 13:5-8,18)
1907 - Pope Pius X condemned, together with "Modernism", all the discoveries of modern science which are not approved by the Church.
1931 - Pius XI reaffirmed the doctrine that Mary is "Mother of God". This doctrine was first invented by the Council of Ephesus in 431. (Note: This is a heresy, contrary to Mary's own words. (Lk. 1:46-49; Jn. 2:1-5)
1950 - The Assumption of the Virgin Mary (her bodily ascension into heaven) was proclaimed by Pope Pius XII.
1965 - Mary proclaimed the Mother of the Church by Pope Paul VI. (Note: The Roman Catholic institution claims that it never changes; and yet through the centuries it has invented new doctrines which are contrary to the Bible, and it has practiced rites and ceremonies taken bodily from paganism. Some scholar has found that 75% of the rites and ceremonies of the Roman Church are of pagan origin.

This list of human inventions utterly demolishes the claim that the Roman Catholic "Church" is the true Church of Christ!

 

[theefaith]

Just what I thought! You changed the word in your first post of Gen 13:8 to "Brothers" when they were NOT "Brothers" because Lot was the son of Abram's brother! Abram's brother's name was Haran. Haran was Lot's father; Abram was Lot's uncle and the correct word is "kindred"!

This was very dishonest of you!

brothers brethren same difference

 

[theefaith]

I agree with you as far as the early church goes...
Then man's pride and arrogance and power-seeking got in the way of the pure faith.
I also believe the CC is trying to get back to basics,,,but it might be too late.
Especially with the distancing this Pope has caused with orthodox catholics. (not Orthodox).

But I have a question for you...
HOW do we know what the Apostles doctrine is
and is it different from the N.T. writings?

what did Nathaniel or Andrew write?
The church is a divine and there for an eternal, unchanging, the kingdom of God on earth
Nowhere does it ever teach the Bible alone
Apostles remain to the return of Christ
Matt 28:19-20 behold I am with you (the apostles) to the end