Genesis 1, a day, and Billions of years

[Happy Trails]

The Bible is its only evidence.....it doesn't need more...

You are assuming that Genesis ch2 is speaking about another creation event, but it isn't. As I demonstrated to you in my other post. Genesis 2 is a more detailed account of the same creative work, more focused on the humans.
God did not form the man on day 7.....what Bible are you reading?

Genesis 1:26-27...
"Then God said: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every creeping animal that is moving on the earth.” 27 And God went on to create the man in his image, in God’s image he created him; male and female he created them. . .
After that God saw everything he had made, and look! it was very good.

31 And there was evening and there was morning, a sixth day."

Genesis 2:1-4....
"Thus the heavens and the earth and everything in them were completed. 2 And by the seventh day, God had completed the work that he had been doing, and he began to rest on the seventh day from all his work that he had been doing. 3 And God went on to bless the seventh day and to declare it sacred, for on it God has been resting from all the work that he has created, all that he purposed to make.

4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven."
Then the account goes into detail about God's creation of the humans. The word translated "history" there is "tôlḏôṯ" and it means...
"descendants, results, proceedings, generations, genealogies

1. account of men and their descendants
   1. genealogical list of one's descendants
      
      
   2. one's contemporaries
      
      
   3. course of history (of creation etc)"

So I believe that you have been led down a slippery slope scripturally speaking. Imaginative I will grant you...but not substantiated by the rest of scripture. There is one creation event that took seven periods of undefined time.....and the seventh day has not yet ended....as Paul confirmed.

I am not assuming anything. I am reading what it says WITHOUT assuming that two completely different processes at two different times, followed by a different set of instructions, are the same event. That is the assumption YOU are making. Genesis 2 is not a second creation event. It is the forming of Adam.

Genesis 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

==
Creation is complete. YHVH rests on the first Sabbath. There is no man to till the ground. YHVH forms a man and puts him in the Garden. The males and females that were created in Chapter 1 were told to go fill up the earth. Adam was told to tend the Garden. Which instruction should be followed? Adam can't do both.

Cain went to a place east of Eden that already had a population. He feared what the people there would do to him. He found a wife there.

Things that go against the narrative you inherited are not a slippery slope.

 

[Happy Trails]

Cuz that's how HE operates! HE does that which PLEASES HIM!

AS far as the "big bang" goes? (Nuns with guns )
Methinks the Archangel Michael KICKING satan out of heaven to earth jez MIGHT make for a pretty big bang, eh?
Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
Although this thread speaks of "time" at the creation? A "short" time COULD very well mean 6,000 some years yanno? Or longer.

Satan has yet to be kicked out. He is, right now, accusing the brethren before the Father.
His ejection is one of the "things hereafter" John was told to write. Only then will Satan have the need to inhabit the person we know as the "beast."

 

[Ronald Nolette]

How am I redefining any term?

I never suggested anything about evolution.

Then why do you believe in millions of years when the bible clearly and unambiguously says creation took 6 days, not 6 undefined periods!

God could n't make it plainer! "An evening and a morning, a first day"! Etc. Everything we use to tell time is based on the movements of the sun or moon except one, the week! that is based on the bible. Even Jesus said God created teh world in six days. By the time He hit the earth, there were plenty of great words to use to make it clear it wasn't six literal days.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

On the First Day God created light and HE saw it was Good.

On the Fourth Day God said let there be lights in the firmament (sky) and then WE saw the Sun Moon and Stars here on earth.

It took that long for the light to travel the vast distances and we are talking millions of years.

Day simply means a period of time depending on context. After creation our day as you know is measured by the sun, but remember, we are still in God's seventh day and that is a very long time

Remember this fundamental truth:

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (2 Peter 3:8 KJV)

For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. (Psalms 90:4 KJV)

.

Now that they are established yes! But God spoke and it was!

Day is YOM and it can mean an idefinite time period, but God made it clear He meant a single 24 hour day! For each day of creation He said there was an evening and a morning a first day, a second day etc. The context is clear! Only a presuppositional bias causes one to not see God said 6 literal days!

You should check out some of the physics of the universe. There is one theory from a non believer who has shown that light from even th efurthest galaxy would take no more than 14 years to reach earth.

And you forget that if the light from the furthest galaxy (13.8 billion light years away) took that long to reach here and we are seeing light from that galaxy where it was 14 billion years ago- we have a serious problem!!!

Physics and astronomy that the universe was either a singularity or a pencil point to grapefruit size of mass until the big bang, which they declare took place 13.8 billion years ago! /So if that is true- the light we are seeing way out in the distant universe would not have been there to shine to us 13.8 billion years ago. All matter and energfy was contained in whatever size was there at teh big bang and then supposedly exploded outward! so that galaxy if it could travel at teh speed of light all the time would have taken 13.8 billion years to get to teh place where it shines light we are seeing 13.8 billion years after it shone! IOW the universe would have to be 27.6 billion years old and that makes them all wrong!

 

[Cooper]

Now that they are established yes! But God spoke and it was!

Day is YOM and it can mean an idefinite time period, but God made it clear He meant a single 24 hour day! For each day of creation He said there was an evening and a morning a first day, a second day etc. The context is clear! Only a presuppositional bias causes one to not see God said 6 literal days!

You should check out some of the physics of the universe. There is one theory from a non believer who has shown that light from even th efurthest galaxy would take no more than 14 years to reach earth.

And you forget that if the light from the furthest galaxy (13.8 billion light years away) took that long to reach here and we are seeing light from that galaxy where it was 14 billion years ago- we have a serious problem!!!

Physics and astronomy that the universe was either a singularity or a pencil point to grapefruit size of mass until the big bang, which they declare took place 13.8 billion years ago! /So if that is true- the light we are seeing way out in the distant universe would not have been there to shine to us 13.8 billion years ago. All matter and energfy was contained in whatever size was there at teh big bang and then supposedly exploded outward! so that galaxy if it could travel at teh speed of light all the time would have taken 13.8 billion years to get to teh place where it shines light we are seeing 13.8 billion years after it shone! IOW the universe would have to be 27.6 billion years old and that makes them all wrong!

Not worth responding to. The last sentence evidences your confusion. The galaxy is settled in its orbit the same as the sun and the moon.
.

 

[Happy Trails]

Then why do you believe in millions of years when the bible clearly and unambiguously says creation took 6 days, not 6 undefined periods!

God could n't make it plainer! "An evening and a morning, a first day"! Etc. Everything we use to tell time is based on the movements of the sun or moon except one, the week! that is based on the bible. Even Jesus said God created teh world in six days. By the time He hit the earth, there were plenty of great words to use to make it clear it wasn't six literal days.

I think you misunderstood. What I said was this:

Creation happened in 6 days.
Mankind was created on the 6th day.
YHVH rested on the Sabbath.
Mankind was here for an undisclosed period.
Sometime after the first Sabbath, Adam was formed.
How long after is not mentioned.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Day is YOM and it can mean an idefinite time period, but God made it clear He meant a single 24 hour day! For each day of creation He said there was an evening and a morning a first day, a second day etc. The context is clear! Only a presuppositional bias causes one to not see God said 6 literal days!

Its right there hidden in plain sight...."there was evening and morning a first (second, third ect.) day."

The Jewish day began at sundown, so for it to have been a 24 hour "day" it would have said..."there was evening and evening a first (second, third etc.) day".

These were not 24 hour periods....why do they have to be?

 

[Cassandra]

The Jewish day began at sundown, so for it to have been a 24 hour "day" it would have said..."there was evening and evening a first (second, third etc.) day".

But a day is composed of evening and morning, not 2 evenings. I think the Bible is very explicit.

 

[Aunty Jane]

But a day is composed of evening and morning, not 2 evenings. I think the Bible is very explicit.

The Jewish day was not evening to morning.....it was evening to evening. Evening to morning is around 12 hours, not 24 hours.

I believe that this is indicating the close of one creative period and the "dawn" of a new one.

Why is it so important that the "days" be 24 hours periods? I cannot understand this inordinate need to stick to this....?
Genesis 2:4 uses the same word (day) for the whole of creation.

It makes no difference to anyone if thousands or even millions of years transpired before our creation because we were lat on the scene.....the Bible's history fills in the story of how God created the universe and this planet upon which he created life in abundance. He said that he rested from his creative works on completion of all that he had planned, and allowed the 7th day for all eventualities to play out and be dealt with so that his purpose for it all could be fulfilled. There is no declaration to indicate that it is completed yet. We still have the thousand year reign of Christ to go.

What was God's purpose for us....why are we here?
And was Adam ever told that he would got to 'heaven or hell"?

What are your thoughts?

 

[quietthinker]

Its right there hidden in plain sight...."there was evening and morning a first (second, third ect.) day."

The Jewish day began at sundown, so for it to have been a 24 hour "day" it would have said..."there was evening and evening a first (second, third etc.) day".

These were not 24 hour periods....why do they have to be?

You need to speak to some Jewish folk and ask them. Us Westerners are so dogmatic when it comes to understanding Jewish idiom....we do ourselves a disservice and wear our ignorance like a badge of honour.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I think people forget Moses did not write what he say, he wrote what he was told to write. Actually many people believe Noah brought early writings through the flood. And moses copied them

This jewish day is not set in stone. God had moses write evening and morning for a reason. Evening and morning are not jewish terms as someone pointed out. Probably because it is not jewish.

 

[NayborBear]

Satan has yet to be kicked out. He is, right now, accusing the brethren before the Father.
His ejection is one of the "things hereafter" John was told to write. Only then will Satan have the need to inhabit the person we know as the "beast."

Luke 17:
20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

It's fairly apparent, more er less, that not many on this thread are not already believers.
Seek ye first the Kingdom of God. Where is it now? Right!
And all these things will be added unto you.

 

[Aunty Jane]

I am not assuming anything. I am reading what it says WITHOUT assuming that two completely different processes at two different times, followed by a different set of instructions, are the same event. That is the assumption YOU are making. Genesis 2 is not a second creation event. It is the forming of Adam.

Genesis 2
Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

==
Creation is complete. YHVH rests on the first Sabbath. There is no man to till the ground. YHVH forms a man and puts him in the Garden. The males and females that were created in Chapter 1 were told to go fill up the earth. Adam was told to tend the Garden. Which instruction should be followed? Adam can't do both.

So you read that story into the Bible's narrative without ever asking about why Jesus had to come and die for what Adam did?
Did he also die for the sins of those other humans? Where does it say so?

If there had been sinless humans on earth before Adam, why is there no mention of them? And how did they end up sinful when they did not descend from Adam....?
Romans 5:12...
"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned."

Death could not spread to "all men" if it was not inherited from Adam. Death only came into human experience through the sin of Adam and his wife. So what about these so called people who existed before Adam was "formed"? If they did not inherit Adam's sin they would never die.....where are they?

1 Corinthians 15:21-22....
"For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam ALL are dying, so also in the Christ ALL will be made alive."
If all of Adam's descendants are dying because of inheriting his sin, then those not descended from Adam should still be alive.....so where did they go?

Cain went to a place east of Eden that already had a population. He feared what the people there would do to him. He found a wife there.

Is that what the Bible says?
Genesis 4:10-16....After murdering his brother in cold blood, God asked Cain....
“What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground. 11 And now you are cursed in banishment from the ground that has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you cultivate the ground, it will not give you back its produce. You will become a wanderer and a fugitive in the earth.” 13 At this Cain said to Jehovah: “The punishment for my error is too great to bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your face; and I will become a wanderer and a fugitive on the earth, and anyone who finds me will certainly kill me.” 15 So Jehovah said to him: “For that reason, anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times.”

So Jehovah set up a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him would strike him. 16 Then Cain went away from before Jehovah and took up residence in the land of Exile, to the east of Eʹden."

How long did humans live in those days before the flood? Many over 900 years old. Do we know at what age Cain was when he killed his brother?
Do we know how soon after the murder that God exiled him far away from his parents? Or how soon after the murder, Seth was born?

There is no timeline for any of these events. Since Adam and his wife had "sons and daughters", not much mention is made of the womenfolk, (Noah's wife and three daughter's in law were not named) so who is to say that Cain did not take an unnamed sister or a niece as a wife? There was no such thing as incest in those days before God's law.

Who said that this faraway land was inhabited? With such a long lifespan, there is no telling how much time elapsed between events because the Bible simply does not say. The people "finding" Cain would be those who heard about his crime and wanted justice for his innocent brother....would it have mattered if this was in a few hundred years time? There was time for generations to come forth. By Noah's day that portion of the earth was inhabited and corrupted by the disobedient angels who had relations with 'the daughters of men' and produced a freakish race of humanoids called the Nephilim. Gigantic men with licentious appetites and a violent disposition. These were not descendants of Adam and had no right to exist.....so God brought the flood to eliminate them and force their errant fathers back to the spirit realm, where he stripped them of their ability to materialize. There was no mention of them doing so ever again.
Now these ones are specifically spoken about in the Bible. The ones you mention are not.

Noah was 500 years old before he had children. But by the time he was building the ark all three of them were married. The Bible does not really take time into account in these passages...they are merely facts in history, told without a detailed timeline.

Things that go against the narrative you inherited are not a slippery slope.

Your version of events raises more questions than it answers I'm afraid....most concerning is who it was that Jesus died to save...?

 

[Aunty Jane]

You need to speak to some Jewish folk and ask them. Us Westerners are so dogmatic when it comes to understanding Jewish idiom....we do ourselves a disservice and wear our ignorance like a badge of honour.

Do we? Who is "we"?
A day to a Jew was evening to evening.....that is a given down to this day.

 

[Cooper]

But a day is composed of evening and morning, not 2 evenings. I think the Bible is very explicit.

That is true, but in the beginning the universe was expanding and still is, and neither had everything settled into their orbits. It was a work in progress, it was a big job and it took a long time. Now we have rhythm and cohesion and regular days and nights, back then it was chaos.
.

 

[quietthinker]

Do we? Who is "we"?
A day to a Jew was evening to evening.....that is a given down to this day.

have you asked a religious Jew what it means?...or do you mean God created through the night and daytime only got a mention briefly? (morning) that's if the sun was up.
...and what if it means, the night and the day....how would that fit into your theory?
I think you better get some advice from the culture that these writing hark from....Ohhh, and while you're at it you may as well enquire about Satan, yes, Satan.....it might shock or surprise you.

Edit: blown me down, it might even disappoint you.

 

[Happy Trails]

So you read that story into the Bible's narrative without ever asking about why Jesus had to come and die for what Adam did?
Did he also die for the sins of those other humans? Where does it say so?

If there had been sinless humans on earth before Adam, why is there no mention of them? And how did they end up sinful when they did not descend from Adam....?
Romans 5:12...
"That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because they had all sinned."

Death could not spread to "all men" if it was not inherited from Adam. Death only came into human experience through the sin of Adam and his wife. So what about these so called people who existed before Adam was "formed"? If they did not inherit Adam's sin they would never die.....where are they?

1 Corinthians 15:21-22....
"For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. 22 For just as in Adam ALL are dying, so also in the Christ ALL will be made alive."
If all of Adam's descendants are dying because of inheriting his sin, then those not descended from Adam should still be alive.....so where did they go?


Is that what the Bible says?
Genesis 4:10-16....After murdering his brother in cold blood, God asked Cain....
“What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground. 11 And now you are cursed in banishment from the ground that has opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12 When you cultivate the ground, it will not give you back its produce. You will become a wanderer and a fugitive in the earth.” 13 At this Cain said to Jehovah: “The punishment for my error is too great to bear. 14 Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your face; and I will become a wanderer and a fugitive on the earth, and anyone who finds me will certainly kill me.” 15 So Jehovah said to him: “For that reason, anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times.”

So Jehovah set up a sign for Cain in order that no one finding him would strike him. 16 Then Cain went away from before Jehovah and took up residence in the land of Exile, to the east of Eʹden."

How long did humans live in those days before the flood? Many over 900 years old. Do we know at what age Cain was when he killed his brother?
Do we know how soon after the murder that God exiled him far away from his parents? Or how soon after the murder, Seth was born?

There is no timeline for any of these events. Since Adam and his wife had "sons and daughters", not much mention is made of the womenfolk, (Noah's wife and three daughter's in law were not named) so who is to say that Cain did not take an unnamed sister or a niece as a wife? There was no such thing as incest in those days before God's law.

Who said that this faraway land was inhabited? With such a long lifespan, there is no telling how much time elapsed between events because the Bible simply does not say. The people "finding" Cain would be those who heard about his crime and wanted justice for his innocent brother....would it have mattered if this was in a few hundred years time? There was time for generations to come forth. By Noah's day that portion of the earth was inhabited and corrupted by the disobedient angels who had relations with 'the daughters of men' and produced a freakish race of humanoids called the Nephilim. Gigantic men with licentious appetites and a violent disposition. These were not descendants of Adam and had no right to exist.....so God brought the flood to eliminate them and force their errant fathers back to the spirit realm, where he stripped them of their ability to materialize. There was no mention of them doing so ever again.
Now these ones are specifically spoken about in the Bible. The ones you mention are not.

Noah was 500 years old before he had children. But by the time he was building the ark all three of them were married. The Bible does not really take time into account in these passages...they are merely facts in history, told without a detailed timeline.


Your version of events raises more questions than it answers I'm afraid....most concerning is who it was that Jesus died to save...?

Wow. Wonderful.

My contention: "mankind was created on day 6 and told to fill up the earth and have dominion over it. YHVH rested on the 7th day and said, 'I have no man to till the ground.' So, he formed a man. He did not create him. Creation is 'from nothing.' 'Formed' is from existing material. He took that man and put him in a Garden. He told the man to tend the Garden.

Day 6 versus After the first Sabbath
Created versus Formed
Fill the earth versus tend the Garden"

Those three dichotomies need consideration.

Outside the Garden there is no Tree of Life. Leaving the Garden is what made them subject to death. The whole point of this experience is to return.

The whole point in studying the Bible is to raise questions. I got free of the indoctrination, thank you very much. Getting all worked up over "who Jesus is saving" seems like an unnecessary distraction. That's a different topic altogether.

 

[quietthinker]

Wow. Wonderful.

My contention: "mankind was created on day 6 and told to fill up the earth and have dominion over it. YHVH rested on the 7th day and said, 'I have no man to till the ground.' So, he formed a man. He did not create him. Creation is 'from nothing.' 'Formed' is from existing material. He took that man and put him in a Garden. He told the man to tend the Garden.

Day 6 versus After the first Sabbath
Created versus Formed
Fill the earth versus tend the Garden"

Those three dichotomies need consideration.

Outside the Garden there is no Tree of Life. Leaving the Garden is what made them subject to death. The whole point of this experience is to return.

The whole point in studying the Bible is to raise questions. I got free of the indoctrination, thank you very much. Getting all worked up over "who Jesus is saving" seems like an unnecessary distraction. That's a different topic altogether.

or is it straining knats and swallowing camels?

 

[Happy Trails]

or is it straining knats and swallowing camels?

It's more about digging for gold.

 

[quietthinker]

It's more about digging for gold.

or chalcopyrite?