When we see things BEGIN to happen -Rapture

[Timtofly]

If we went up to meet Him in the clouds do you consider being seen only by His Bride and being up in the air is a 'return'?

Who is looking at metaphor at the time of the Second Coming?

Those in Paradise already arrived. Some on earth have not yet arrived. We are not meeting the Lamb. We are meeting the Lord God. The Lamb just happens to be heading to the Mt. Of Olives at the same time the remaining church is heading up to Paradise.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes satan is currently bound from Deceiving the nations to battle

He is deceiving nations to battle all the time. That's because he is not bound and imprisoned yet. That only happens when Christ returns and no, the Earth won't be dissolved then either. You have all the timeframes wrong in this imaginary Millennium you think it happening now. The real Millennium will be peaceful, no wars and no false religions and REAL ruling not imaginary ruling.

 

[dad]

Church does not come back until 1,000 years later as the New Jerusalem.

This world is still not our home yet. That heavenly city is still above.

I see. So now you think that the 1500 mile high gold city that is also 1500 miles wide and long that has walls and mansions and a river, and trees etc is us?? No. It is the place He prepared for us.

 

[dad]

The end of what?

You want English? Perhaps it is the end of English as well?

Well, the Rapture is the end in many ways. It is the end for believers on this world. The return of Jesus is the end also. That is when the kingdoms of man end and it all becomes His kingdom. At the end of the thousand year period the heavens and earth as we know them end, so that is fittingly thought of as the end. So when you mention 'the end' you need to be specific.

 

[dad]

Who is looking at metaphor at the time of the Second Coming?

I give up...who??

Those in Paradise already arrived.

Well If they are there already one supposes they did arrive there. Was there some point to that?

Some on earth have not yet arrived.

I would go as far as to say that no one on earth has arrived in paradise!

We are not meeting the Lamb. We are meeting the Lord God.

You do realize Jesus is God??

The Lamb just happens to be heading to the Mt. Of Olives at the same time the remaining church is heading up to Paradise.

Ah, so you feel you can wave off the Rapture as some cosmic coincidence. Good luck with that.

 

[Oseas]

The earth cannot be dissolved and Jesus and us rule it at the same time. You conflate the time when the heavens and earth are made new with the return of Jesus and our rule on this earth. The period simply lasts longer than you thought.

What does the Word of GOD say?
JESUS warned: Matt. 24:v.6-8:

VERSE 6 - Ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet. (Comment: Actually, this is fulfilling literally and will continue in future by indefinite days, day after day).

VERSE 7 - For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: (Comments: Understand, for now the fulfilment of this prophecy is in stand by because we are in the beginning of sorrows. Actually, the extension of this prophecy goes far, so far, inimaginable, because the chastisements have its beginning, yeah, its beginning, but it WILL NEVER END, it WILL NEVER STOP, BUT NEVER, the punishment is ETERNAL, it is for ever and ever, understand? Once the Word of GOD says it is nation against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, understand it, there will not be any kind of "Federation" or Confederations-for examples-, and also united groups which there still are today as :
UN - United Nations Organization
NATO - North Atlantic Treaty Organization
OAS - Organization of American States
WTO - World Trade Organization
UNESCO - United Nations Organization for Education, Science and Culture
OECD - Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
BIRD - International Bank for Reconstruction and Development.
IMF - International Monetary Fund
WHO - World Health Organization
ILO - International Labor Organization,
G-7
G-20
among others.

ALL, but ALL, will be destroied, will be DISSOLVED, yeah, DISSOLVED, DISMANTLED, like a GIGANTIC IMPLOSION, by analogy, something like the INIMAGINABLE fall of the two TOWERS of the WTC-Word Trade Center, so the confusion or mess is done, in other words, the hell's fire starts to burn, the eternal fire, yeah, forever and ever.

For better understand of you and ALL, I remember 2 Peter 3:v.7 to 18:
7 But the HEAVENS and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment (the Lord's Day) and perdition of ungodly men.

10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the HEAVENS shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the WORKS that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Truth7t7]

He is deceiving nations to battle all the time. That's because he is not bound and imprisoned yet. That only happens when Christ returns and no, the Earth won't be dissolved then either. You have all the timeframes wrong in this imaginary Millennium you think it happening now. The real Millennium will be peaceful, no wars and no false religions and REAL ruling not imaginary ruling.

Satan is "Currently" bound from "One Specific Purpose", And One Only?

"Deceive The Nations" To The "FINAL" Battle

The Non-Literal 1,000 Years (Revelation) 20:1-6 Are Taking Place Now In The Lords Spiritual, And Will Cease At The Future Second Coming

If A Tribulation Saint Were To Die One Day Before The Second Coming, He Enters Into The Non-Literal 1,000 Year Reign

Many That Promote Millennialism Falsely Teach, Satan Cant Be Presently Bound Because Evil Exist In The World?

Satan Is Presently Bound As Is Clearly Seen In (Revelation) 20:7-8 Below That Interprets (Deceive The Nations) Is To Battle, Not General Evil In The World Presently.

Satan Is Loosed At The End Of The Tribulation When The 6th Vial Is Poured Out As Seen In (Revelation) 16:12, The Deception Is Devils In False Miracles Going Forth To The Kings Of The Earth, To Gather Them To The Final Battle

(Revelation) 20:1-9KJV
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

(Revelation) 16:12-14 & (Revelation) 20:7-8 Same Deception In Gathering The Nations To The Very Same Final Battle In "Parallel" Teachings Of The Same Event

(Revelation) 16:12-17KJV
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[dad]

What does the Word of GOD say?
JESUS warned: Matt. 24:v.6-8:

VERSE 6 - Ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the END is not yet. (Comment: Actually, this is fulfilling literally and will continue in future by indefinite days, day after day).

VERSE 7 - For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: (Comments: Understand, for now the fulfilment of this prophecy is in stand by because we are in the beginning of sorrows. Actually, the extension of this prophecy goes far, so far, inimaginable, because the chastisements have its beginning, yeah, its beginning, but it WILL NEVER END, it WILL NEVER STOP, BUT NEVER, the punishment is ETERNAL, it is for ever and ever, understand? Once the Word of GOD says it is nation against nation, and kingdom against kingdom, understand it, there will not be any kind of "Federation" or Confederations-for examples-, and also united groups which there still are today as :
UN - United Nations Organization
NATO - North Atlantic Treaty Organization
OAS - Organization of American States
WTO - World Trade Organization
UNESCO - United Nations Organization for Education, Science and Culture
OECD - Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.
BIRD - International Bank for Reconstruction and Development.
IMF - International Monetary Fund
WHO - World Health Organization
ILO - International Labor Organization,
G-7
G-20
among others.

ALL, but ALL, will be destroied, will be DISSOLVED, yeah, DISSOLVED, DISMANTLED, like a GIGANTIC IMPLOSION, by analogy, something like the INIMAGINABLE fall of the two TOWERS of the WTC-Word Trade Center, so the confusion or mess is done, in other words, the hell's fire starts to burn, the eternal fire, yeah, forever and ever.

For better understand of you and ALL, I remember 2 Peter 3:v.7 to 18:
7 But the HEAVENS and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the Day of Judgment (the Lord's Day) and perdition of ungodly men.

10 But the Day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the HEAVENS shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the WORKS that are therein shall be burned up.

Nothing is dissolved until after our 1000 yr rule here.

 

[Truth7t7]

Nothing is dissolved until after our 1000 yr rule here.

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

 

[dad]

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Simple question. The multitudes of folks saved in the Tribulation are totally able to stand!

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

Eventually, yes. The fire and warring at His return however does not burn all the world. If it did He would not be dong what He promised here, namely ruling the world with us.

 

[Taken]

No one but Jews become saved during the GT.

Only Jews become saved during the GT?
Disagree.

No new Gentiles become saved, so those who come out of the GT who were not Jews, but Gentiles,

were already in the Church at the beginning of the GT. 2 Thes. 2:8-12.

Only Gentiles come out of the GT?
Disagree.

The GT is Gods Wrath that comes down from Heaven upon the Unrighteous inhabitants of the Earth.

* Churches THEN, were “similar” AS Churches NOW, but were also “different”.
* “Similar”....All hearing, Some generally believing, Some doubting, Some Committing, Some heartfully believing but not yet Committing.
* “Different”... THEN...Jews were Teaching Jews & Gentiles “the Church Gospel of Jesus Christ”......IN “existing buildings called”; Synagogues.

Yes, the First part of Revelations was a WARNING to “the Churches”...
The “Churches”....were not the “BUILDINGS”...(as they are called today)...
THE CHURCH...(as IS TODAY, “ is not “ a man-made building, BUT “RATHER”,
PEOPLE....”WHICH PEOPLE”???

1) People........WHO.......BELIEVE (but are NOT CONVERTED.)
2) People........WHO.......BELIEVE (who ARE CONVERTED.)

THE DIFFERENCE....?? SAME AS TODAY.
The Converted....ARE SAVED, while alive in their flesh.
The NOT Converted....SHALL BE SAVED, when their flesh physically dies....
“IF” they continue (endure) Believing to the day of their physical death.

People who Believe (but are NOT Converted)...the Lord is “WITH” them.
People who Believe (and ARE Converted)...the Lord is “WITH & IN” them.
Big Difference!

People who Believe (but are NOT Converted)...CAN fall away from Believing.
People who Believe (and ARE Converted)...CAN NEVER fall away from Believing.

The WARNING to the “Churches” all through Scripture, and Revelations...IS
(Not a message to the “buildings”)....BUT IS a Message to the “PEOPLE” WHO are “WITH” the Lord......but NOT “With & In” the Lord.

Warning to KEEP THEIR GARMENTS CLEAN...is specific to the “believers WHO ARE NOT “converted””....but SHALL BE SAVED...at the time of their physical Death.

The Converted require NO WARNING to “keep their garments clean”...
They ARE KEPT, by the POWER OF GOD “IN” THEM!

The CHURCH (ie The Converted WITH and IN Christ) are NOT ON EARTH, during the GT....THEY HAVE ALREADY GIVEN THEIR BODILY LIFE unto DEATH, crucified WITH Christ.)

The CHURCH (ie. The Unconverted “WITH” Christ), must remain ON Earth during the GT...TO PHYSICALLY GIVE THEY BODILY LIFE unto DEATH).

It makes NO DIFFERENCE between RACE OF “Jew or Gentile”, before or during the GT...
“IF” they Believe on the day they are physically DEAD...THEY SHALL BE SAVED. <—- THEY (their soul and spirit) shall come forth OUT of the GREAT TRIBULATION, With a White Garment, and rise up to Heaven.
Their BODY shall be BURIED, and raised up, after the 1,000 year reign of Christ, (with the Converted).

 

[Taken]

I see no warning in those verses. It is encouragement that when the things begin to happen, it is time to look up for our redemption is near.
Since you already admitted that was not talking about the Rapture, not sure why you post this?

That (indicated by a ^), portion was NOT about the Rapture.
Warning...WHEN you look up.

Correct. That is when every eye shall see Him and He returns TO the earth. Of course the worldly people will not like it.
The ones that mourn are the unsaved and this is not the Rapture but the second coming and return to earth of Jesus with us His saints that were already taken up long before this.

The next portion of Scripture...was about the Rapture.
The ones “ON EARTH” LOOKING UP....are ALL the inhabitants ON the Earth...
Mourning
The Raptured are NOT “LOOKING UP”....they are coming WITH HIM.

 

[dad]

That (indicated by a ^), portion was NOT about the Rapture.
Warning...WHEN you look up.

Not sure what you are trying to say.

The next portion of Scripture...was about the Rapture.
The ones “ON EARTH” LOOKING UP....are ALL the inhabitants ON the Earth...
Mourning
The Raptured are NOT “LOOKING UP”....they are coming WITH HIM.

Well, the people that were taken in the air were looking up knowing the time was near hopefully. Later they come back with Him when He comes back. The people seeing Jesus (the unsaved people) may also look up, but not because their redemption is close. We will be looking down since we are coming from above with Him! There will also be a great multitude looking up at us that will be redeemed when He returns.

 

[Truth7t7]

Simple question. The multitudes of folks saved in the Tribulation are totally able to stand!
Eventually, yes. The fire and warring at His return however does not burn all the world. If it did He would not be dong what He promised here, namely ruling the world with us.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Taken]

The Lord returns in fire and final judgement, just as post #493 shows, please respond to that post

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

Do you believe The Son of Man......is The Son of God......is God?
Do you believe Jesus is the Word of God....is God?
Do you believe Christ is the Power of God.....is God?
Do you believe Christ is the Wisdom of God....is God?
Do you believe Christ is the Seed of God..........is God?

Do you believe God has numerous Names, Titles, Descriptions?
Do you believe God is omnipresent?
Do you believe God REVEALS “WHAT” He is DOING, by “WHAT” Name, Title, Description HE IS CALLED?
Do you believe MEN ON EARTH, HAVE SEEN GOD?

I believe, God DOES have numerous Names, Titles, Descriptions....and IS omnipresent.
I believe, NO MAN ON Earth, has SEEN GOD.
I believe, Scripture is SPECIFIC, of WHAT God is to be CALLED at ANY GIVEN POINT.
I believe, we CAN KNOW, when it IS GODS PRESENCE, but NOT SEE HIM.

The Lord Returns?

Jesus Christ Returns to Earth?

Who are YOU specifically talking ABOUT?
Scripture says.....The Son of man was sent to Earth.
Scripture says.....MEN ON EARTH...SAW, the Son of man.
Scripture says.....The Son of man RETURNED to Heaven.
Scripture says.....The Son of man SHALL RETURN to Earth.
Scripture REVEALS....men ON EARTH...LEARNED who the Son of man IS.
Scripture REVEALS ...while men ON EARTH, LEARNED “WHO” the Son of man IS.......(and called HIM, by WHAT men Learned, Believed, KNEW)....those men ON EARTH......STILL “ONLY SAW” the Son of man.

Yes...Some men ON Earth (then as now), believed the Son of man, is Jesus, is the Son of God, is the Word of God, is the Truth, is the Lord, is the Christ, is the Messiah, is the Power of God, is the Quickening Spirit, is the Seed of God, is God.......and Some men ON Earth (then as now), BELIEVE only portions of those things.
Point Being.... What the Son of man IS CALLED, at any given times IN Scripture...IS SPECIFIC to what the OMNIPRESENT GOD IS DOING AT THAT specific TIME.

WITH....WITHOUT....WITHIN....are also Specific TERMS....that APPLIES to “SPECIFIC” people, at “SPECIFIC TIMES”.

God......WILL...be “WITH” a man, who IS at that moment BELIEVING IN GOD.
Christ....WILL...be “WITH” a man, who IS at that moment BELIEVING IN CHRIST.

(Review the OT, HOW MANY TIMES, God was WITH the Hebrews/Tribes...
How many Times Gods Power was WITH the Hebrews/Tribes...
AND WHY?? Because the Hebrews/Tribes.....Were “WITH” God! Trusting, following His instruction......and WHEN men DID NOT, follow His direction...
Then WHAT? Men on Earth, were NOT WITH God....and God was NOT WITH THEM!) <—-THAT HAS NOT CHANGED for a Tribesman, or for any Gentile who has been Learning, Believing, himself wavering.
(Not EVERY PERSON “attending” a Church Building Sermon, Believes, or IS converted).

The RAPTURE...is also a SPECIFIC “time”....and APPLIES to “SPECIFIC” people. There IS a SELECT portion of People WHO....ARE CONVERTED.
They ARE Converted.....They ARE Christ’s Church.
BECAUSE...1) Jesus, Offered All men, By Gods Grace, a WAY, BY, THROUGH, OF Christ Jesus, FOR ALL men, to become Converted....ANY MAN...
*Can WILLINGLY lay down his own bodily Life, crucified with Jesus.
*Can WILLINGLY heartfully Confess he Believes, Jesus IS the Christ, the Son of the Living God.
*Can WILLINGLY receive the Gods Forgiveness for having HAD disbelief...
*Can WILLINGLY receive Gods Saving of his soul.
*Can WILLINGLY receive Gods Quickening of his spirit.
*Can WILLINGLY receive Gods SPIRIT “with” AND “in” the man.
* THEY ARE ASSURED, to be KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD....”IN” THEM.
* THEY ARE NOT subject to WRATH.
* THEY ARE RISEN UP...wholly, body, soul, spirit....OFF THE FACE OF THE EARTH...BEFORE the Wrath of God rains DOWN upon the Earth during the GT.
* THEY ARE the “converted”.

They are not “coming out” of the GT, they are not Subject to Gods Wrath.
They are already Saved, already DELIVERED, already WITH and IN Christ..
Their body is Already Dead, crucified with Christ, and have been LIVING IN Christ Jesus’ RISEN BODY.
It is these SPECIFIC CONVERTED Persons who ARE Christ’s BAPTIZED members of HIS CHURCH.
* Christ’s Church MEMBERS, SHALL BE CALLED UP...OFF the face of the Earth,
BY a Servant of God.......Called an Holy Archangel......TO MEET WHO SPECIFICALLY?
The Lord.
Where Specifically?
In the Air, In the Clouds.
This Meeting is between.....Christ’s Church, those whom have given their bodily life, and BEEN living IN Jesus’ risen Body.....AND “the Lord”....”their SAVIOR”.

* Those Converted, Risen UP to the Clouds, are NOT MEETING, NOT SEEING the “Son of man” ... they ARE SEEING their Lord and Savior for the First Time....AS HE IS... SPIRIT!

So what does ^ THAT have to do with, the Son of man, returning TO EARTH? NOTHING.
So what does ^ THAT have to do with, the Son of man, returning TO Earth (WITH POWER, who IS CHRIST)? NOTHING.

Does the Son of man RETURN TO EARTH “DURING” the Tribulation?
No.
DURING the TRIBULATION...GOD IS SENDING FROM HEAVEN....
HIS TRIBULATION, HIS Destruction upon the face of the Earth and it’s inhabitants...BECAUSE of His ANGER...BECAUSE of men Rejecting Him, and His Christ....And God Reveals His ANGER...BY and THROUGH His WRATH.

If you study Scripture, you will discover, When Jesus was Revealed ON Earth, When men heard He is the Christ, THAT some believed, some didn’t, That those who Believed IN God, but not Jesus being the Christ..........ARE THE FIRST DURING the GT to be Effected by Gods WRATH....suffering the WRATH OF THE LAMB...for HAVING “HEARD”...but “NOT” having Believed In Christ Jesus being “the LAMB OF GOD”, for not having received the Baptism of the HS, by and through the LAMB.

They suffer the effects of the WRATH of the LAMB....it’s a wake up call...many begin to BELIEVE ... (Jew & Gentile).... who had ONLY Believed IN God, but not Jesus, the Lamb of God. Once they Believe....they BECOME enemies of Satan, who is prowling the Earth LOOKING for men who (reject “him”/Satan), whom he (Satan) will kill for those men willing to Bodily Die, for their Belief in Christ Jesus, the Lamb of God......THOSE willing to Bodily Die for their Belief in the Lamb of God, are KEPT “under the altar”...their body dead, their souls saved, their spirits quickened........BUT their souls and spirit DO NOT YET ... rise up to Heaven. MORE events occur during the GT.... God SENDS Servants to continue PREACHING the Gospel of Christ Jesus...Two Witnesses...and 144,000....and more BECOME Willing Believers, Become Saved, Become enemies of Satan, become bodily killed for their Belief....and ONCE all ON Earth, during the GT, who Come into Belief and are bodily killed.......
TOGETHER, their saved souls and quickened spirits, are RISEN UP TO HEAVEN....having COME OUT of the GT. (THEY are NOT risen TO THE clouds WITH THE CHURCH)....They (soul and spirit) ARE risen up to Heaven, before the throne of God, praising and worshiping God......UNTIL?
Satan is bound in Hell for 1,000 years.
The END of the Jesus’ 1,000 year reign ON Earth, WITH HIS CHURCH in His Kingdom....and Mortals outside of the Kingdom establishing cities and nations.
After the 1,000 years, and Satan returns to Earth.
After Satan begins Attacking the nations, attempts to Attack Jesus’ Kingdom;
**** Then DOES the Son of man, RETURN TO EARTH. Who comes WITH Power, to STOP Satan’s Attacks, Against the nations, Against Jesus’ Kingdom...(ie Armageddon)
Satan and his demonic angels are defeated and cast off the face of the earth.
Any men of the mortal nations that followed Satan, rejected Jesus...are cast OFF the face of the earth.
THEN is the Earth renewed, The New Jerusalem comes down from Heaven, the DEAD BODY’S, who physically DIED having and keeping their Belief in God, In Christ.....resurrected in NEW Body’s...their saved souls, their quickened spirits reunited with their New Body’s.....and forever they occupy the new earth.

 

[Taken]

Not sure what you are trying to say.

You think I was calling your WHOLE post “”””correct””””, in agreement.
No, I was not in agreement with your WHOLE post...only a portion of it.

Well, the people that were taken in the air were looking up knowing the time was near hopefully. Later they come back with Him when He comes back. The people seeing Jesus (the unsaved people) may also look up, but not because their redemption is close. We will be looking down since we are coming from above with Him! There will also be a great multitude looking up at us that will be redeemed when He returns.

People in the AIR....(ie the Converted IN Christ)...ARE ALREADY “DELIVERED”....are not “looking” up....The Converted are simply WAITING ON Earth....NOT Wondering WHAT WILL HAPPEN....They already KNOW WHAT will Happen....They are ALREADY prepared for ANY DAY, it WILL HAPPEN.

They ARE on Earth...they ARE summoned...they RISE up...they Meet the Lord......IT’s QUICK.

Those “looking up”....are ON EARTH...remaining on Earth...looking up for SIGNS, of what shall happen next.
The Converted...are ALREADY BODILY DEAD....remember...crucified with Jesus?

Sure, there are a multitude ON EARTH....Who are NOT CONVERTED...We know...Many people “believe” but are not “converted”....(ie have NOT received the Baptism of the HS)....they WILL ALWAYS be looking for SIGNS, waiting to see what will happen next...Will they be so scared of Bodily Death Threats they WILL acquiesce to the WILL of Satan? Or the WILL acquiesce to Corrupt wicked government sitting men? (As we see NOW, government power sitters, silencing the Word of God, having closed Churches)....Will they be killed by Satans’ army? Will they be killed by a mans army? (As we see NOW, armed forces being SENT OUT to Threaten and Oppress the People), will they be killed by Famine? will they be killed by Forrest fires? Will they be killed by inability to buy or sell? (As we see NOW, government power sitters, obstructing buying, selling, and confiscating the peoples wealth)...Will they be killed because the water supply is blood polluted? They shall experience all kinds of wrath during the Trib, and be Looking up, waiting, wondering WHEN shall the Son of Man return and put a Stop to all the Grief and Suffering...

 

[Taken]

WE are IN THE TIMES OF..........SORROWS....
It is not Gods Great Tribulation.
It is not The End.
It IS the Wickedness of power sitting men IN Government positions...
THREATENING...wars, citizens, stealing the wealth of the people, against the Godly, oppressing the people, controlling buying and selling and travel...etc.
People sit is UNBELIEVABLE amazement of HOW QUICK men are yielding in fear of the governments threats and acts against the people.

Matt 24:
[6] And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
[7] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
[8] All these are the beginning of sorrows.
[9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
[10] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

 

[Timtofly]

I see. So now you think that the 1500 mile high gold city that is also 1500 miles wide and long that has walls and mansions and a river, and trees etc is us?? No. It is the place He prepared for us.

I did not say the city "was us".

That city is currently not sitting on the earth right now is it?

 

[Timtofly]

I would go as far as to say that no one on earth has arrived in paradise!

That was my point. They are not on earth. Cannot be in two places at the same time. Either one is on earth or in Paradise.

Yet you claim we will leave Paradise and come to earth. Not in Scripture. We will be in the city when it comes to earth. Do you think that city sits empty for 1,000 years?

 

[Timtofly]

Ah, so you feel you can wave off the Rapture as some cosmic coincidence. Good luck with that.

I am pretty sure the rapture is the means for those living on earth to enter Paradise without falling asleep.

It seems to me those virgins who fell asleep missed the event. Go figure.