When we see things BEGIN to happen -Rapture

[dad]

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

This verse says when we start or begin to see these things, that is when we look up for our redemption. That does seem to mean the Rapture, because if the 'things' just started there is a lot of things yet to happen! Yet our redemption is at the doors here.
Today we do see these things start to happen. The nations that will attack Israel are in line, the worldwide credit system of the mark is beginning to be set up. Earthquakes, pestilences, the waves of people all over the world roaring, fear etc. But even if there are some who deny we are starting to see these things, the fact remains that it is when we begin to see them that OUR redemption draws very near.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

This verse says when we start or begin to see these things, that is when we look up for our redemption. That does seem to mean the Rapture, because if the 'things' just started there is a lot of things yet to happen! Yet our redemption is at the doors here.
Today we do see these things start to happen. The nations that will attack Israel are in line, the worldwide credit system of the mark is beginning to be set up. Earthquakes, pestilences, the waves of people all over the world roaring, fear etc. But even if there are some who deny we are starting to see these things, the fact remains that it is when we begin to see them that OUR redemption draws very near.

Yes, the Great Tribulation is about to begin with the unveiling of the Antichrist. Do not lose heart if you are still here, as if you missed the Rapture. The Rapture will be when Jesus comes again at the end, not before.

 

[dad]

Yes, the Great Tribulation is about to begin with the unveiling of the Antichrist. Do not lose heart if you are still here, as if you missed the Rapture. The Rapture will be when Jesus comes again at the end, not before.

I think that it will be obvious the Rapture happened, so no believer will be able to lose heart. And when did their redemption happen? When they saw the things start to happen. Not after. Not when it was all done or half done.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I think that it will be obvious the Rapture happened, so no believer will be able to lose heart. And when did their redemption happen? When they saw the thing start to happen. Not after. Not when it was all done or half done.

But IF you are still here (I hope it is as you believe, because I'll be with you), but IF we are still here, don't lose heart. Be ready to lose your head.

 

[dad]

But IF you are still here (I hope it is as you believe, because I'll be with you), but IF we are still here, don't lose heart. Be ready to lose your head.

I would still look up knowing our redemption is at hand. How could that be at the very start of those things, if we had to go through all that wrath like everyone else?

 

[Keraz]

I would still look up knowing our redemption is at hand. How could that be at the very start of those things, if we had to go through all that wrath like everyone else?

What Luke 21:25-26 is prophesying, is the forthcoming Sixth Seal, the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
We see in Revelation 15:1 and Matthew 24:29-30, that the Lords wrath is over before Jesus Returns.

So; Luke 21:27 Then; we will see Jesus coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
This must be some time after His terrible Day of wrath.

 

[Enoch111]

The Rapture will be when Jesus comes again at the end, not before.

You are definitely confused about the Rapture and the Second Coming, which are two distinct and separate events.

1. At the Rapture Christ comes FOR His saints.
2. At the Second Coming Christ comes WITH His saints.
That is how simple it is.

 

[Enoch111]

This verse says when we start or begin to see these things, that is when we look up for our redemption.

That is correct, and that is why the Rapture is called "the Blessed Hope".

 

[ewq1938]

You are definitely confused about the Rapture and the Second Coming, which are two distinct and separate events.

1. At the Rapture Christ comes FOR His saints.
2. At the Second Coming Christ comes WITH His saints.
That is how simple it is.

Very simple. Both events happens moments within each other. Even simpler!

It's better to provide scripture than opinions:

1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.(second coming reference)
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord (second coming reference) shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven (second coming reference) with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: (the resurrection of the dead in Christ)
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (the rapture)

The resurrection only happens at the second coming and the second coming can only happen after the trib has ended, and since the verses tell us the rapture happens AFTER the resurrection and second coming means these verses decisively prove the rapture is post-trib not pre-trib.

It's that simple.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I would still look up knowing our redemption is at hand. How could that be at the very start of those things, if we had to go through all that wrath like everyone else?

That's where you are wrong. Tribulation is not wrath. It is a time of testing, because there will be many who do not abide in Jesus, and He is not in them, yet they believe they are saved. For those alive at the end of the fullness of the Gentiles, they will have a chance to pass or fail the test.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You are definitely confused about the Rapture and the Second Coming, which are two distinct and separate events.

1. At the Rapture Christ comes FOR His saints.
2. At the Second Coming Christ comes WITH His saints.
That is how simple it is.

They are the same. The dead saints, and those who are alive to the end will meet in the air.

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

There are no alive saints coming back in the Second Coming. They are here on earth.

 

[Enoch111]

Very simple. Both events happens moments within each other. Even simpler!

That would be both an absurdity and an impossibility.

 

[ewq1938]

That would be both an absurdity and an impossibility.

I already proved that it is true. You didn't address the verses posted because you can't deny what they say.

 

[dad]

What Luke 21:25-26 is prophesying, is the forthcoming Sixth Seal, the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.

We are not told that only the signs in a few verses are what He was talking about. The signs talked about included earthquakes and pestilences and a lot of things. Yes the 2 verses you cite are talking about the Tribulation. But the signs are not limited to that.

the Lords wrath is over before Jesus Returns.

I would tend to include after He comes to slay the wicked and take over as wrath also. Remember His garments will be red with the blood of His enemies.

So; Luke 21:27 Then; we will see Jesus coming in the clouds with power and great glory.
This must be some time after His terrible Day of wrath.

That is after the Tribulation ends. That is not what the beginning of the signs we see is though. That is close to the end.

 

[dad]

That is correct, and that is why the Rapture is called "the Blessed Hope".

Right. Part of the reason is that meeting Jesus, and going up in the air forever to be with Him, and having our new bodies. I agree that also we could tack on that we just got delivered from the horrors that will come on the earth in that time. The whole package is our blessed hope. About the only question that remains is 'have we started to see some of these signs mentioned yet'? A whole lot of us are saying yes, it does seem that way.

 

[Enoch111]

About the only question that remains is 'have we started to see some of these signs mentioned yet'?

The signs are all there so it is just a matter of time.

 

[dad]

That's where you are wrong. Tribulation is not wrath.

Yet the bible clearly lists the seals as the wrath of God. You do realize they are opened in the end?

It is a time of testing, because there will be many who do not abide in Jesus, and He is not in them, yet they believe they are saved.

No doubt that sort will be tested in those days along with the rest of the world! The ones who believe in Jesus will be caught up to meet Him when we start to see or begin to see the signs mentioned.

For those alive at the end of the fullness of the Gentiles, they will have a chance to pass or fail the test.

The test is accepting or rejecting Jesus. There will be multitudes that come to Jesus after we are gone.

 

[dad]

The signs are all there so it is just a matter of time.

Well, maybe not all are here yet. The things concerning the Tribulation and etc in that chapter. However all that matters is whether we have started to see any or some of the signs!

 

[Keraz]

I would tend to include after He comes to slay the wicked and take over as wrath also. Remember His garments will be red with the blood of His enemies.

The descriptions of the Return do not say Jesus will carry out a general slaughter. He just disposes of the armies of the Anti-Christ by the Sword of His Word.

It is at the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, where the Lord gets His blood splashed garments. Isaiah 63:1-6
at least 7 + years before He Returns.

 

[Davy]

Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

This verse says when we start or begin to see these things, that is when we look up for our redemption. That does seem to mean the Rapture, because if the 'things' just started there is a lot of things yet to happen! Yet our redemption is at the doors here.
Today we do see these things start to happen. The nations that will attack Israel are in line, the worldwide credit system of the mark is beginning to be set up. Earthquakes, pestilences, the waves of people all over the world roaring, fear etc. But even if there are some who deny we are starting to see these things, the fact remains that it is when we begin to see them that OUR redemption draws very near.

Not... really. You are missing what Lord Jesus taught about the Signs of the end He gave His servants.


Matt 24:6-8
6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
KJV

Lord Jesus said there when we hear of wars and rumors of wars, don't worry, because what? He said, "but the end is not yet". What did He mean by that? Simple. It means the very end, just prior to His future return, there won't be any wars or rumors of war, but a time of world peace.

This is why Apostle Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3 revealed that when the deceived begin to say, "Peace and safety", then "sudden destruction" will come upon them. And Paul began that revelation talking about the time of the "day of the Lord", which is the day of Christ's future return to destroy the wicked.

That actual START... of the time of "great tribulation" is with the placing of the "abomination of desolation" by the coming pseudo-Christ in Jerusalem, per Matthew 24:15-21.

So what we are in today is the "beginning of sorrows" time Jesus forewarned of. It is a time of wars, kingdom against kingdom, famines, pestilences, and earthquakes. This time is to serve as a huge contrast vs. when the pseudo-Christ is setup and claims to be God, and the deceived will be glad because they will believe he is God come to fix all the world's problems, make craft prosper, etc. The Book of Daniel also says he will destroy many using 'peace', so there's another Scripture proof of this matter (Daniel 8:25).