Secure Eternal Salvation

[Enoch111]

Satans Desire is to Control through Oppression.

Ain't that the truth. Oppression = tyranny and that is exactly what we see today in the supposedly "free" world. It would appear that Satan and his demons have taken full control of all world governments and international organizations such as WHO and the UNO.
Stasi Tactics: Canadian Police Show Up to Woman’s Home and Harass Her Over Pro-Convoy Facebook Posts – Admit They are “Monitoring” Citizens’ Online Activity – (VIDEO)

 

[GodsGrace]

Ain't that the truth. Oppression = tyranny and that is exactly what we see today in the supposedly "free" world. It would appear that Satan and his demons have taken full control of all world governments and international organizations such as WHO and the UNO.
Stasi Tactics: Canadian Police Show Up to Woman’s Home and Harass Her Over Pro-Convoy Facebook Posts – Admit They are “Monitoring” Citizens’ Online Activity – (VIDEO)

Didn't you know?
She must be a terrorist!

 

[GodsGrace]

Well if scholars and Cleric can use RCC I shall as well. There may bve 23-24 churches called Catholic in their title, but Rome claims supremacy over them all! so roman Catholic Church is well known and recognized.

Just saw this.

A actually @Illuminator is right.
It should be called the CC.

Roman is a rite. There are different rites within the CC.

A rite does not s church make.
I also know that this will not change...

 

[Marymog]

Well there were Popes but they were not head of all fo the church in the western side of the empire! They may have headed the church in Rome but not in Alexandria or Antioch etc. Until Constantine ended the persecutions, the church was pretty much guided by the local bishops with some cooperation between cities.

I would love to see Ireneus lkist! As there was a church and a bishop in Rome long before Peter got there, it would be interesting to see!

Yup. The Church in Rome was then and still is headed by one bishop.

And it is true that here had been many local councils where local bishops, priests, and deacons gathered to issue canons to the faithful prior to Constantine. Did those local bishops, priests, and deacons that gathered to issue canons issue any canons that were OPPOSITE of Catholic teaching? (the answer is NO) In any of those councils BEFORE Constantine did they ever call The Church "Catholic"? (the answer is yes)

All the Christian Churches throughout the world BEFORE Constantine had the same "Catholic" teaching that The Church has today. That is why Constantine was able to call together all the Bishops from all the churches all over the world because they were UNITED in One faith with One teaching. The reason why Emperor Constantine called the Council of Nicaea was to resolve the controversy over Arius’ teaching that Christ Jesus was not consubstantial with God the Father. Therefore, it then follows that for there to have been a heresy or even an counter belief to create a controversy, there must have been prior to Arianism a well-established belief about the nature Jesus Christ in a Church community that all agreed with this understanding. Otherwise, the teachings of Arius would not have caused such a controversy.

Mary

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Just saw this.

A actually @Illuminator is right.
It should be called the CC.

Roman is a rite. There are different rites within the CC.

A rite does not s church make.
I also know that this will not change...

A rite a sect does make and all the other 23 sects of Catholicism do not even make a fraction of the roman Catholic church! Even teh RCC calls it self that. You are making a mountain out of a grain of sand.

It is the RCC church under the Pope that said the Pope is the head of teh church on earth- and that is simply wrong!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yup. The Church in Rome was then and still is headed by one bishop.

And it is true that here had been many local councils where local bishops, priests, and deacons gathered to issue canons to the faithful prior to Constantine. Did those local bishops, priests, and deacons that gathered to issue canons issue any canons that were OPPOSITE of Catholic teaching? (the answer is NO) In any of those councils BEFORE Constantine did they ever call The Church "Catholic"? (the answer is yes)

All the Christian Churches throughout the world BEFORE Constantine had the same "Catholic" teaching that The Church has today. That is why Constantine was able to call together all the Bishops from all the churches all over the world because they were UNITED in One faith with One teaching. The reason why Emperor Constantine called the Council of Nicaea was to resolve the controversy over Arius’ teaching that Christ Jesus was not consubstantial with God the Father. Therefore, it then follows that for there to have been a heresy or even an counter belief to create a controversy, there must have been prior to Arianism a well-established belief about the nature Jesus Christ in a Church community that all agreed with this understanding. Otherwise, the teachings of Arius would not have caused such a controversy.

Mary

Well if you can give a brief summation of the one teaching, I can either agree or disagree with you.

Teh church was very divided and different towns held differing beliefs often during teh first three centuries.

Teh first major dividsion was Jew/Gentile
then came gnostics
Then came the greek philosophy invasion.
Then also was the lack of teaching in the second and third centuries due to churches having limited copies of the letters that became the bible.

Now I am grateful for Constantine ending the siege though ultimately it was disastrous for the church. It allowed the church to com e ully out and discuss and finally settle on correct doctrine which became the New Testament. But even many of these first councils were noted for intense arguing and division.

there were many wolves that sprang upon the church. Arianism, had swept much of the church! It even corrupted Origen for a time!

so please do not pretend the church was united in one faith. Even soteriology was divided between teh grace +0 crownd and the grace +works crowd!.

I believe in the catholic church For the church is universal comprised of all saved within all sects of Christendom. I do not accept the Catholic Church (most noted by the RCC), Iti is not the church established.

YOu also must remember that there was a church in rome with a bishop in rome long before Peter went there. He never was the Bishop of Rome. that is unsubstantiated tradition.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Didn't you know?
She must be a terrorist!

You know. all these things are terrible and horrible and speak of very dark things to come. But what is the point of believers sccreaming an dhowling and crying out against it? That is not our calling and priority.

We are called to glorify God and spread the gospel. Warning the world of oppression to come will not save them!

Yes we need to be informed and let people (IN LOVE) know of these things so that we can get the gospel to the lost and for the believers, learn to become more and more wise as serpents but harmless as doves.

I am one who has taught many of my adult bible study classes on preparing for the times to come so they will not be without necessary needs. We know the times are going to get darker and worse and turn against believers in the areas where we still have relative freedom. Screaming about the evil of it will not stop it, nor build up teh church or advance th egospel to the lost.

 

[Marymog]

Well if you can give a brief summation of the one teaching, I can either agree or disagree with you.

ONE of the teachings The Church held before Constantine and still does to this day is the Real Presence.

 

[Marymog]

Then also was the lack of teaching in the second and third centuries due to churches having limited copies of the letters that became the bible..

Completely and utterly Not True. Christianity did NOT have a "lack of teaching in the second and third centuries due to churches having limited copies of the letters that became the bible." The FACT is some disregarded Revelations but accepted Clement of Rome as Scripture. Your "limited copies" theory is NOT true. They had plenty of copies but disagreed on what was Scripture. It took almost 300 years before the men of The Church came together to decide what Scripture is and what is in your bible today.

 

[Marymog]

there were many wolves that sprang upon the church. Arianism, had swept much of the church! It even corrupted Origen for a time!

so please do not pretend the church was united in one faith. Even soteriology was divided between teh grace +0 crownd and the grace +works crowd!.

You just made my point. Who defeated Arianism? THE CHURCH! So The Church WAS united in one faith....that is why Arianism FAILED!

 

[Marymog]

I believe in the catholic church For the church is universal comprised of all saved within all sects of Christendom. I do not accept the Catholic Church (most noted by the RCC), Iti is not the church established..

The Church also teaches that the church is catholic (universal). It has taught that for at least 1,700 years. Have you ever read The Apostles Creed? It was written in 325AD.

If The Catholic Church is not "the church established" by Christ then which church is?

 

[Marymog]

YOu also must remember that there was a church in rome with a bishop in rome long before Peter went there. He never was the Bishop of Rome. that is unsubstantiated tradition.

OK. Who was the first Bishop of Rome then?

2 Thessalonians 2:15

 

[GRACE ambassador]

op: Secure ETERNAL Salvation?
Absolutely! Still God's Sound Doctrine for those who humbly "trust" Him!:

God's OPERATION On all His New-born "babes" In Christ!
God's Assurance of ETERNAL Salvation!!

For those who "have another proud way" ie: cannibalistic (transubstantiation)
religion, another jesus, works, sacraments, do's and dont's, etc, etc, etc... =
not so much, Absolutely!

Just sayin'...

 

[Ronald Nolette]

ONE of the teachings The Church held before Constantine and still does to this day is the Real Presence.

Some did, most did not! when the church went gentile it became more and more popular for the church lost the siginificance of which bread and which cup from the seder were used by Jesus!

It was not formalized by the RCC until Pope InnocentIII in 1250

The first writing we have is Ignatius of Antioch c. 110. By this time many parts of the church did not even know these were part of the Passover Seder meal.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Completely and utterly Not True. Christianity did NOT have a "lack of teaching in the second and third centuries due to churches having limited copies of the letters that became the bible." The FACT is some disregarded Revelations but accepted Clement of Rome as Scripture. Your "limited copies" theory is NOT true. They had plenty of copies but disagreed on what was Scripture. It took almost 300 years before the men of The Church came together to decide what Scripture is and what is in your bible today.

Wrong! churches were under enormous persecution then. but your own words show that teh church was not in unity because they disagreed as to what was scripture.

You seem to forget that the letters were handwritten and to had to be copied and sent to other cities. This was a very lengthy process and the early church did not have a group of scribes.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You just made my point. Who defeated Arianism? THE CHURCH! So The Church WAS united in one faith....that is why Arianism FAILED!

Not the church but the Scriptures and sound doctrine used by the church! But the church saved is not a sect or denomination, but individuals in every sect, this is the true church.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Church also teaches that the church is catholic (universal). It has taught that for at least 1,700 years. Have you ever read The Apostles Creed? It was written in 325AD.

If The Catholic Church is not "the church established" by Christ then which church is?

The church is catholic in that it is universal. but the Catholic Church (formal) was not the first church! Teh first church was all Jewish! Paul did not go into gentile lands (outside of Tarsus) until his first mission trip in 46-47 AD, the gentile wing of the church was in its infancy through the first century.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

OK. Who was the first Bishop of Rome then?

2 Thessalonians 2:15

Couldn't tell you, as it is not in Scripture. But when Peter finally got to visit Rome there already was an established church. That means it had at least one bishop. Though the catholic church ranks bishops as higher in order than local priests(pastors) that is not the Scriptures. A local pastor had three titles signifying the different aspects of his office as pastor : Elder (presbyter) Bishop (episkopos) and shepherd.

The early church had no overseer of multiple churches like an RCC bishop today

 

[Marymog]

Couldn't tell you, as it is not in Scripture. But when Peter finally got to visit Rome there already was an established church. That means it had at least one bishop. Though the catholic church ranks bishops as higher in order than local priests(pastors) that is not the Scriptures. A local pastor had three titles signifying the different aspects of his office as pastor : Elder (presbyter) Bishop (episkopos) and shepherd.

The early church had no overseer of multiple churches like an RCC bishop today

Thanks Ronald.

Where in Scripture does it say that when Peter got to Rome there was at least one bishop? I can't find that in Scripture.

What we today call a bishop is what is described in Scripture as an overseer or elder. What is the purpose of a bishop if not "higher in order than local priests (pastors)"? What have you been taught about Ephesians 4:11? Would you rank any of them (apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers) as being "higher in order" over the other?

Where in Scripture does it say that a local pastor is an Elder and a Bishop and a Sheperd? I'm not saying it's not there....I just can't find it right now. In general I guess a local pastor is all three but where does Scripture say that....

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

The early church had no overseer of multiple churches like an RCC bishop today

Where does Scripture say that the "early church had no overseer of multiple churches"?