Galatians 2:20

[1stCenturyLady]

"We" is a different word from "I", each having their own meanings. "I" refers to myself alone, "We" is an inclusive group which includes not only myself but also others.

John writes of an inclusive "we", while Paul speaks of "I" and "me". No, I do not accept your recommendation to read Paul as if he were writings like John wrote, because in point of fact, Paul did not write as John wrote. They are different passages, different writers, different topics, no, that one used "we" is not good reason to ignore the fact that the said "I".

Much love!

So are you saying Romans 7:17 is Paul's present condition, or is Romans 8:2? They can't be both his present condition. Or maybe Romans 7:9 is true and Paul was over 1300 years old? No wonder he had poor eyesight!

It is the context that will give you the truth, and not our western mindset of "I" and "we." The apostles had an eastern mindset and a different style of writing and teaching which included the person reading it as personal to them.

 

[marks]

This is the classic cessationist argument, which carried to its full ends leads to a powerless Christianity.

This is so far from anything I think or say.

I cannot confirm nor deny this, but my view is that all who Jesus appeared to between the resurrection and the ascension received the Holy Ghost as an anointing,

Then it's pure speculation, and once again, I'm going to stick with what the Bible actually says, and not what it doesn't say.

Your complaint with me is that as you assert things that aren't actually written in the Bible, I point to what the Bible says, and you fault me for doing that.

The minutia is a distraction from engaging in the topic, accusing me of "Making up terms" such as the "first move of the Holy Spirit" And "Fulness of the Spirit" because you cannot find these phrases in a concordance search of the NT.

More of the same.

If you want to discuss this with me, I'm going to be discussing what the Bible itself says, and I'm not interested in speculation as a basis for doctrine, and if you have a problem with that, so be it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

2: So are we to ignore the exodus story and the ten commandments because they are contained in a narrative passage?

Do you realize what I'm saying about the differences in Scripture genres?

Ignore the Bible? No. Don't ignore the Bible. Don't add to it. Don't take from it. Believe what it says.

Much love!

 

[marks]

So are you saying Romans 7:17 is Paul's present condition, or is Romans 8:2? They can't be both his present condition. Or maybe Romans 7:9 is true and Paul was over 1300 years old? No wonder he had poor eyesight!

It is the context that will give you the truth, and not our western mindset of "I" and "we." The apostles had an eastern mindset and a different style of writing and teaching which included the person reading it as personal to them.

Like I said, obviously if I'm interpreting from the words used, and you are interpretting requiring the words used to actually mean something different, then we are not going to be agreeing, are we?

I'll say to you what I said to David, Don't add to it, Don't take from it, Just believe what it says. Not what it doesn't say.

Much love!

 

[marks]

and not our western mindset of "I" and "we." The apostles had an eastern mindset and a different style of writing and teaching

Paul is considered a one of, or the preeminent Koine Greek writers. He is compared to Shakespeare for Elizabethan English, or Aristophanes for Classical Greek.

Koine Greek is celebrated for its specificity, in its extensive vocabulary, and it's system of syntax that allows for great precision in its communication. Koine Greek was a language perfectly suited to the intricacies and details of New Testament theology, and bringing it to both the eastern and western worlds.

Personally, I truly love the precision of this language! The ambiguities of English for the most part simply don't exist in Koine Greek. For an example, in English, you have to identify the clauses and which words belong together by their placement, and how the sentence appears. In Koine Greek, the clauses are self identified by the syntax, leaving no question of which words belong together, and which do not.

John, as he wrote, demonstrates that he was using basically Hebraic thought being expressed in the Koine Greek language. Many recognize this, and there are numerous examples in his Gospel, his letters, and the Revelation. Paul, on the the other hand, does not show this. In fact, were that to be his manner of writing, he would not be considered a good example of Koine Greek writing. What Paul shows is a mastery of the Koine Greek language, using it exactly as it was meant to be used, with great detail and specificity.

Much love!

 

[marks]

1: That is what being born of the Spirit means... Aka Born again, so yes, that is what I mean, That all who receive the Gospel are "breathed into Spiritual life". Does Jesus Physically appear to them and literally "breath" into them? NO.

This is your characterization. What the Bible itself says is that we are immersed into Christ, and that our new life is conferred in being raised to new life in sharing His resurrection, being born from God.

You change that to "breathed into spiritual life", your wording, and make that a part of your doctrine, some two-tiered salvation, and some kind of caste Christianity.

Jesus literally breathed on the disciples, saying, receive ye the Holy Spirit, and there is no place in the Bible that He did that to any others. He also conferred to the disciples the authority to remit and not remit sins. This passage tells us what Jesus did then.

Just like the Exodus. The passage tells us what happened, and we should believe it . . . as written. And we shouldn't pluck out parts of it, to reword, and remove from their context, and make them into something that God never said.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Or which would you like to be true?

Which would I like to be true??

Seriously? That's your question for me?

Those are the sorts of questions we're not to bother with.

So are you saying Romans 7:17 is Paul's present condition, or is Romans 8:2?

It's all right there. We've been over and over it.

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Which would I like to be true??

Seriously? That's your question for me?

Those are the sorts of questions we're not to bother with.



It's all right there. We've been over and over it.

Much love!

Erroneously you believe both. That is just sad because you show you are clueless as to why Jesus came, and give Him no honor at all. Earlier I thought you were finally beginning to understand, but I see it was all an act.

 

[marks]

Erroneously you believe both. That is just sad because you show you are clueless as to why Jesus came, and give Him no honor at all. Earlier I thought you were finally beginning to understand, but I see it was all an act.

And another one who feels fine to spew their negative opinions.

I suppose this is supposed to be an example of righteousness?

We start with Scripture, and end with this.

Blech!

Much love!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

And another one who feels fine to spew their negative opinions.

I suppose this is supposed to be an example of righteousness?

We start with Scripture, and end with this.

Blech!

Much love!

If you don't like my defense of Jesus, I'll just consider the source. Just remember - I tried to help your eyes to open. But Proverbs 1:7

You refuse to want to know the true meaning of God's word by a spirit of religiosity. And your doctrines can send others to judgment as well as yourself. James 3:1

I'll let the words of Jesus be my words to you.

Matthew 23:13
“But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

Matthew 23:27
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness.

Do you want to criticize Jesus too?

 

[David H.]

Do you realize what I'm saying about the differences in Scripture genres?

Ignore the Bible? No. Don't ignore the Bible. Don't add to it. Don't take from it. Believe what it says.

Much love!

Do you believe the Holy Spirit reveals to us understanding and divine revelation in the course of our relationship with Him?

This is your characterization. What the Bible itself says is that we are immersed into Christ, and that our new life is conferred in being raised to new life in sharing His resurrection, being born from God.

You change that to "breathed into spiritual life", your wording, and make that a part of your doctrine, some two-tiered salvation, and some kind of caste Christianity.

Jesus literally breathed on the disciples, saying, receive ye the Holy Spirit, and there is no place in the Bible that He did that to any others. He also conferred to the disciples the authority to remit and not remit sins. This passage tells us what Jesus did then.

Just like the Exodus. The passage tells us what happened, and we should believe it . . . as written. And we shouldn't pluck out parts of it, to reword, and remove from their context, and make them into something that God never said.

Saying that young believers differ from elders is not introducing a "Caste system" in the least it is no different thand pointing out the maturity level of a person in fleshly terms.... it does not put you in a lower cast....

The "Breathed into Spiritual life" is more of your semantic babble.... The concept is scriptural and is called being born again and born of the Spirit, and you know full well what I am speaking of.

All you do is complain about my comments, Ignore my questions like....
"...so to you I will ask again, what does it mean to be "full of the Holy Ghost" and why were some chosen for this quality in Acts 6:3 ff.?"
And then accuse me of making up words.... it is called communication, using different words to get a point across. It is quite tiresome, and distracts from having a fruitful and Spiritual conversation with you, one that would lead to Spiritual growth for all involved and even those reading along.

With that I will put you on ignore for a timeout.....

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Do you believe the Holy Spirit reveals to us understanding and divine revelation in the course of our relationship with Him?



Saying that young believers differ from elders is not introducing a "Caste system" in the least it is no different thand pointing out the maturity level of a person in fleshly terms.... it does not put you in a lower cast....

The "Breathed into Spiritual life" is more of your semantic babble.... The concept is scriptural and is called being born again and born of the Spirit, and you know full well what I am speaking of.

All you do is complain about my comments, Ignore my questions like....
"...so to you I will ask again, what does it mean to be "full of the Holy Ghost" and why were some chosen for this quality in Acts 6:3 ff.?"
And then accuse me of making up words.... it is called communication, using different words to get a point across. It is quite tiresome, and distracts from having a fruitful and Spiritual conversation with you, one that would lead to Spiritual growth for all involved and even those reading along.

With that I will put you on ignore for a timeout.....

His problem for all the time I've known him is he looks at a scripture and believes what it says verbatim, even though it means the opposite when seen in the context of the chapter. He doesn't believe in context or what the apostle means, he just likes dissecting every word in one sentence. And that method puffs out his chest so much he could care less how his home-made doctrine slaps Jesus in the face. And if I defend Jesus against his contrary doctrines, he accuses me of sinning. I'm about to put him on ignore too, because to argue with a fool just makes me a fool for trying to save him from himself.

 

[Enoch111]

You refuse to want to know the true meaning of God's word by a spirit of religiosity.

How can you accuse Marks of "a spirit of religiosity" when he has never misrepresented the Gospel?

Now coming back to your statements, you refuse to believe what is plainly revealed in Scripture. That even after a person is born again the old Adamic sin nature is NOT eradicated. Hence your erroneous and garbled conclusion: "So are you saying Romans 7:17 is Paul's present condition, or is Romans 8:2? They can't be both his present condition. Or maybe Romans 7:9 is true and Paul was over 1300 years old? No wonder he had poor eyesight!"

It should be crystal clear that Paul was saying that even though he possesses the Holy Spirit, the old nature is still there (and must be mortified or crucified). Every Christian has been freed from the Law of Sin and Death, since Christ has redeemed us by His blood. But that does not change the fact you can (and do sin) as is possible for all Christians. At the same time Paul said "sin shall not have dominion over you" which means you do not have to sin.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

How can you accuse Marks of "a spirit of religiosity" when he has never misrepresented the Gospel?

Now coming back to your statements, you refuse to believe what is plainly revealed in Scripture. That even after a person is born again the old Adamic sin nature is NOT eradicated. Hence your erroneous and garbled conclusion: "So are you saying Romans 7:17 is Paul's present condition, or is Romans 8:2? They can't be both his present condition. Or maybe Romans 7:9 is true and Paul was over 1300 years old? No wonder he had poor eyesight!"

It should be crystal clear that Paul was saying that even though he possesses the Holy Spirit, the old nature is still there (and must be mortified or crucified). Every Christian has been freed from the Law of Sin and Death, since Christ has redeemed us by His blood. But that does not change the fact you can (and do sin) as is possible for all Christians. At the same time Paul said "sin shall not have dominion over you" which means you do not have to sin.

Yes, he has - the true gospel. But seeing as you believe the same as he does, you are the blind leading the blind and you will both fall in a ditch. Just hope it is not flowing with fire.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It should be crystal clear that Paul was saying that even though he possesses the Holy Spirit, the old nature is still there (and must be mortified or crucified). Every Christian has been freed from the Law of Sin and Death, since Christ has redeemed us by His blood. But that does not change the fact you can (and do sin) as is possible for all Christians. At the same time Paul said "sin shall not have dominion over you" which means you do not have to sin.

Pure ignorance. Romans 7:14-25 is not a person who has the Holy Spirit. You would know that if you ever understood the context. Again, another believer in two natures. Wrong.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@marks you are on ignore. I'm not dealing with your foolishness and lack of the fear of the Lord to even try to understand His Word.

 

[marks]

Ephesians 4:1-3 KJV
1) I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2) With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3) Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Ephesians 4:11-16 KJV
11) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12) For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13) Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14) That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15) But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16) From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Do you believe the Holy Spirit reveals to us understanding and divine revelation in the course of our relationship with Him?

Of course He does. Do you believe the Holy Spirit speaks to you things that contradict the Bible?

Saying that young believers differ from elders is not introducing a "Caste system" in the least it is no different thand pointing out the maturity level of a person in fleshly terms.... it does not put you in a lower cast....

Young and old, that's what you think I meant? Haven't we discussed this many times? How is it you do know know what I mean?

"Faithful" and "Saints" of course are what I'm talking about. You make out like there are two castes of Christians, the "faithful", and the "saints", as if believers are divided by Christ, while the truth is that He makes us one.

The "Breathed into Spiritual life" is more of your semantic babble.... The concept is scriptural and is called being born again and born of the Spirit, and you know full well what I am speaking of.

And you know full well what I'm saying, just like above. You apply something that Jesus did with those men as if it justifies your "two step" salvation. Let's call it born again, let's call it born of the Spirit, and let's stop making up terminology that the Bible doesn't use, as if it taught what it does not teach.

This is that call to getting back to the Bible that you decry as minutia, and textualism, but is just me holding to the Word of God.

With that I will put you on ignore for a timeout.....

That sounds best, maybe consider making it permanent.

Much love!

 

[marks]

His problem for all the time I've known him is he looks at a scripture and believes what it says verbatim, even though it means the opposite when seen in the context of the chapter. He doesn't believe in context or what the apostle means, he just likes dissecting every word in one sentence. And that method puffs out his chest so much he could care less how his home-made doctrine slaps Jesus in the face. And if I defend Jesus against his contrary doctrines, he accuses me of sinning. I'm about to put him on ignore too, because to argue with a fool just makes me a fool for trying to save him from himself.

Not the first time I've been slandered.

Yes, ignore sounds like your best option also.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

Matthew 7:15-20 KJV
15) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

What are the fruits of the false prophet?

They are not listed.

Something that IS listed, the fruit of the Spirit, the true Spirit,

Galatians 5:22-26 KJV
22) But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23) Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
24) And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
25) If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
26) Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.

That fruit is a character, a character that loves, and rejoices, and is peaceable, and patient, and gentle, and good, and faithful, and meek, and self-controlled.

So then what is the fruit of the false prophet? Is it likewise a character?

I suggest that this is what Jesus is alluding to.

Luke 6:43-45 KJV
43) For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
44) For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.
45) A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Much love!

 

[Ziggy]

The faith of Abraham is NOT the faith of Christ. We were held by the law UNTIL the faith OF Christ should be revealed.

I believe God gave Abraham a measure of faith in which to believe IN.
God told Abram to leave everything behind and follow him. Are we not told to do the same?
And Abram did. This believing, this faith, this leaving everything behind is what justified Abraham.
This was before Moses.
Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

So you have to ask yourself, where does faith come from?
It comes from God himself.
So Abraham had the faith of Christ already in him. And he acted upon that faith by taking up his "cross" , leaving the world behind, and following the Lord.
Unless we disanul Romans 12:3 and say God only dealt a measure of faith to some.
It is God who deals out the measure. And to him who has, to him will be given more..
Because Abraham believed God his faith was increased.
Which led to the Promised seed.
Abraham saw this promise afar off. It was revealed to Abraham.

Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This is like a political argument. Which side is your master?
The law that was given to Israel because they had no faith,
or Faith itself that was given to Abraham and his seed?

What did Jesus mean when he told Peter he needed to be converted?

thinking..
hugs