Why Do Christians Pray “Thy Kingdom Come”?

[Davy]

so what happened when Peter used his sword?
And what happened to the one that sold his garment to buy one?

2 swords right? Peter and the one who ran away naked as a bluejay.

So why did Lord Jesus tell His disciples, for those who didn't have one, to go buy a sword?

Luke 22:35-36
35 And He said unto them, "When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing?" And they said, "Nothing."

36 Then said He unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
KJV

Anyone can pick-n'-choose a couple of verses out of God's Word and try to make it say just about anything they want, making up their own religious ideas, but those fakes usually don't study all... of their Bible, so they don't even come to Scripture like the above where Jesus told His disciples to go buy a sword.

 

[Davy]

See above, post #35. Why did Jesus tell them to buy swords? Why was 2 "enough" when they were facing an armed mob? It was not to use them in violence because they did not need to defend him. Did he not tell Peter that he had twelve legions of angels if he needed them? (Matthew 26:52-53)
Sorry, but your justification isn't valid.


Nonsense.....Jesus' disciples were not armed for the whole of Jesus' earthly ministry. So your declaration is empty....Jesus never once advocated armed violence for his disciples. You cannot "love your enemies" with a weapon. And if you are arrested, you are to offer no resistance....Just as Jesus and the apostles demonstrated.
What did he tell his disciples?...
"For whoever wants to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 16:25) If you disobey Christ to save your own life....you will lose out on everlasting life. Why do you think the first Christians were martyred?


A slap across the face is an insult in most cultures....but it was not to be a provocation for violence under any circumstances.

Hebrews 10:34-36...
"But remember the former days, when, after being enlightened, you endured a great conflict of sufferings, 33 partly by being made a public spectacle through insults and distress, and partly by becoming companions with those who were so treated. 34 For you showed sympathy to the prisoners and accepted joyfully the seizure of your property, knowing that you have for yourselves a better and lasting possession."

No one resorted to violence.

Romans 12:17-21...
"Never repay evil for evil to anyone. Respect what is right in the sight of all people. 18 If possible, so far as it depends on you, be at peace with all people. 19 Never take your own revenge, beloved, but leave room for the wrath of God, for it is written: “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. 20 “But if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink; for in so doing you will heap burning coals on his head.” 21 Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."

Argue with the scriptures....never are we to repay evil for evil....we are to overcome the evil with the good. That is the mark of a true Christian.
Do you really believe that God is not in full control of our situation, and is watching to see who demonstrates their faith as instructed. Will we pass the test? The patriots won't.


Yes, just like the first century Christians had to endure the hardship and persecution brought upon them by satan's minions.....
The wars of the nations are just that....they are nothing to do with us or God because as 1 John 5:19 says..."We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one."
Satan is the ruler of this world and God is giving him and those who disobey the Christ.....enough rope.....

You are in confusion against Christ's Own Word.

That's what happens when brethren instead listen to men's doctrines in trying to create their own religious movements.

 

[Ziggy]

So why did Lord Jesus tell His disciples, for those who didn't have one, to go buy a sword?

Luke 22:35-36
35 And He said unto them, "When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing?" And they said, "Nothing."

36 Then said He unto them, "But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."
KJV

Anyone can pick-n'-choose a couple of verses out of God's Word and try to make it say just about anything they want, making up their own religious ideas, but those fakes usually don't study all... of their Bible, so they don't even come to Scripture like the above where Jesus told His disciples to go buy a sword.

Why did Jesus tell them to go buy one and then tell them not to use it?

Mat 26:51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Mat 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Jhn 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Scripture fulfilled...

Prophecy against Philistia
Jer 47:1 The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah the prophet against the Philistines, before that Pharaoh smote Gaza.
Jer 47:2 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, waters rise up out of the north, and shall be an overflowing flood, and shall overflow the land, and all that is therein; the city, and them that dwell therein: then the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of the land shall howl.
Jer 47:3 At the noise of the stamping of the hoofs of his strong horses, at the rushing of his chariots, and at the rumbling of his wheels, the fathers shall not look back to their children for feebleness of hands;
Jer 47:4 Because of the day that cometh to spoil all the Philistines, and to cut off from Tyrus and Zidon every helper that remaineth: for the LORD will spoil the Philistines, the remnant of the country of Caphtor.
Jer 47:5 Baldness is come upon Gaza; Ashkelon is cut off with the remnant of their valley: how long wilt thou cut thyself?
Jer 47:6 O thou sword of the LORD, how long will it be ere thou be quiet? put up thyself into thy scabbard, rest, and be still.
Jer 47:7 How can it be quiet, seeing the LORD hath given it a charge against Ashkelon, and against the sea shore? there hath he appointed it.

wanna go diggin?
Hugs

 

[Davy]

Why did Jesus tell them to go buy one and then tell them not to use it?

Mat 26:51 And, behold, one of them which were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his sword, and struck a servant of the high priest's, and smote off his ear.
Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Mat 26:53 Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
Mat 26:54 But how then shall the scriptures be fulfilled, that thus it must be?

Jhn 18:11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

Scripture fulfilled...

Prophecy against Philistia
Jer 47:1 The word of the LORD that came to Jeremiah the prophet against the Philistines, before that Pharaoh smote Gaza.
Jer 47:2 Thus saith the LORD; Behold, waters rise up out of the north, and shall be an overflowing flood, and shall overflow the land, and all that is therein; the city, and them that dwell therein: then the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of the land shall howl.
Jer 47:3 At the noise of the stamping of the hoofs of his strong horses, at the rushing of his chariots, and at the rumbling of his wheels, the fathers shall not look back to their children for feebleness of hands;
Jer 47:4 Because of the day that cometh to spoil all the Philistines, and to cut off from Tyrus and Zidon every helper that remaineth: for the LORD will spoil the Philistines, the remnant of the country of Caphtor.
Jer 47:5 Baldness is come upon Gaza; Ashkelon is cut off with the remnant of their valley: how long wilt thou cut thyself?
Jer 47:6 O thou sword of the LORD, how long will it be ere thou be quiet? put up thyself into thy scabbard, rest, and be still.
Jer 47:7 How can it be quiet, seeing the LORD hath given it a charge against Ashkelon, and against the sea shore? there hath he appointed it.

wanna go diggin?
Hugs

And then the religious fakes, NOT SATISFIED with Lord Jesus' Own Words, will instead try to manipulate His Word to make it say something totally... different. Even the atheist understands the concept of the command to 'go buy' a sword.

 

[Ziggy]

And then the religious fakes, NOT SATISFIED with Lord Jesus' Own Words, will instead try to manipulate His Word to make it say something totally... different. Even the atheist understands the concept of the command to 'go buy' a sword.

I reached my hand out to you brother..
but your just too cankerous for me.
Maybe some other place and time.
Have a good day

 

[Aunty Jane]

You are in confusion against Christ's Own Word.

That's what happens when brethren instead listen to men's doctrines in trying to create their own religious movements.

Oh dear, what a lame excuse for your justification, which was created by men, many of whom claimed to be Christians.

One of us is confused about Christ’s words, so we might let the readers make up their own minds about that.....your scriptural support is rather sparse however. Patriotic sentiments often indoctrinated from infancy, water down or justify ignoring what does not suit their own chosen position. If that position is not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, but on men of the world, do you never consider that this is “friendship with the world” which the Bible says “is enmity with God”? (James 4:4) Jesus never advocated armed violence among his disciples, so there is no way to justify participating in bloodshed that is not sanctioned by God. He punished his own people for shedding blood without his sanction. (Isaiah 1:15) God has not sanctioned a war since his people resided in the Promised Land. It’s defence was their only justification for bloodshed.

Do the wars of the nations in our day have God’s sanction? The fact is that God gave the nations permission to have control of their own affairs so that whatever decisions they made were their own affair....but since Jesus told us to be “no part of the world”......for Christians, any bloodshed, as part of the military, cannot be sanctioned. You are fighting as “part of the world”....not as Christ’s disciples.

The two world wars of last century involved “Christians” killing their own “brothers” of another nation.

1 John 4:20-21....
“If someone says, “I love God,” and yet he hates his brother or sister, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother and sister whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God must also love his brother and sister.” (NASB)
The recent conflict in Ukraine has the same scenario.....so called “Christians” are killing other “Christians”......so just claiming to be a Christian doesn’t make you one. If your conduct doesn’t match your claim, then you have disqualified yourself.

Our warfare is not physical.....as it says in 2 Corinthians 10:3-5....
“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage battle according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying arguments and all arrogance raised against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.” (NASB)

The scriptures do not support your position.

 

[Ziggy]

Rom 12:20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

 

[RR144]

The account is recorded for us in Acts 15 beginning in verse 22. After the death of the apostles, we went into a period of apostasy, where Christianity basically went by the wayside sir, but after Jesus was enthroned as King, we entered into the last days, and God's people started being regathered Isa 2:2,3 and Jesus assigned a faithful slave to shepherd his sheep Mat 24:45-47. They are the ones who govern us today.

It just smacks of "apostolic succession".

 

[GEN2REV]

Sorry, I don't see it that way. The Kingdom is a real government that Jesus and his body members will rule over the world of mankind for a 1,000 years.

Only if you believe that an entire doctrine can be created out of 7 consecutive verses in Revelation which are not supported by any other passage in scripture, including in the very book they are found in.

Kingdom Come is an old world term that refers to a Kingdom that has already come. It is not a supplication for God's Kingdom to come.

God's Kingdom is already come.

ETA: All of the other parts of the Lord's Prayer are present tense. Are we to wait until Jesus returns for God's will to be done or to be given our Daily Bread, etc.?
"For Thine IS the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory ... forever."

 

[RR144]

ETA: All of the other parts of the Lord's Prayer are present tense. Are we to wait until Jesus returns for God's will to be done or to be given our Daily Bread, etc.?

Pretty much.

 

[GEN2REV]

Pretty much.

No.

God's will is done every single day.

Our Daily Bread is the daily reading of The Word.
John 6:35
John 6:51
John 6:53
John 6:63
John 6:68

And you cut off my last sentence that showed that the final words of the Lord's Prayer say that His "IS the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory forever."
-In the KJV at least. Matt. 6:13

 

[RR144]

No. God's will is done every single day. Our Daily Bread is the daily reading of The Word.

My response was to the first part of your question. "Are we to wait until Jesus returns for God's will to be done...?" Unless you don't believe in a literal Kingdom that will rule over mankind, after all that is the whole purpose of Jesus returning.

And you cut off my last sentence that showed that the final words of the Lord's Prayer say that His "IS the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory forever."
-In the KJV at least. Matt. 6:13

I left it out because it's spurious, the earliest manuscripts on hand omit these verses.

 

[GEN2REV]

"Are we to wait until Jesus returns for God's will to be done...?" Unless you don't believe in a literal Kingdom that will rule over mankind, after all that is the whole purpose of Jesus returning.

Can you produce any scripture that specifically states that? I've never seen anything like that in the Bible. I'd be very interested to see something that states that Jesus' whole purpose for "returning" to the earth is to rule over mankind. You might very well find lots of prophetic OT passages that refer to His First Advent being for the sake of ruling His kingdom, but I'll be surprised to see anything that supports what you're claiming.

I left it out because it's spurious, the earliest manuscripts on hand omit these verses.

Well isn't that convenient.

Sounds like a cop-out if I've ever seen one.

You can't prove that they've omitted them, and I can't prove that they don't. So, I'm just supposed to take your word for it then, right?

Nokay.

I don't think so.

The KJV includes the verses; as well as all the lines of the Lord's Prayer are in the present tense. I'll lean unto scripture for my understanding.

Thanks.

Besides there are loads of other verses that make clear that Jesus IS King NOW and that the Kingdom is now.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Can you produce any scripture that specifically states that? I've never seen anything like that in the Bible. I'd be very interested to see something that states that Jesus' whole purpose for "returning" to the earth is to rule over mankind.

The purpose of the Kingdom of God is to not only restore God's rulership to the earth, (taken away by Adam's sin) but it will eliminate all who oppose it or who work against it in supporting the failed kingdoms of corrupt worldly governments. Those kingdoms are going to be destroyed by the Kingdom that will replace them... (Daniel 2:44) ...the rulership of God that we should have had from the beginning.

Revelation 21:1-5....speaks about the future....
"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth passed away, and there is no longer any sea. I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne, saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is among the people, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them, 4 and He will wipe away every tear from their eyes; and there will no longer be any death; there will no longer be any mourning, or crying, or pain; the first things have passed away.”

5 And He who sits on the throne said, “Behold, I am making all things new.” And He said, “Write, for these words are faithful and true.”

The "New Jerusalem" is the seat of God's worship in our day....the "new heaven and new earth" were anticipated as something yet future when Peter wrote about them, where....."righteousness is to dwell". (2 Peter 3:13) Isaiah also prophesied about this situation and anticipated the outcome of its rule in Isaiah 65:17-25. Beautiful pictures are written in his words about the new world to come.

The "new heaven" is the new heavenly government consisting of Jesus and his elect who are described in Revelation 20:6 as being "kings and priests". Priests are provided by God to bring sinners back to God in true worship. There are no sinners in heaven, so Revelation 21 describes the earthly subjects of God's kingdom government.....the one Jesus taught us to pray for, so that God's will could "be done on earth as it is in heaven".

"The meek shall inherit the earth"....so God's purpose for this beautiful planet never went away. He was always going to restore his first purpose. (Isaiah 55:11)

You might very well find lots of prophetic OT passages that refer to His First Advent being for the sake of ruling His kingdom, but I'll be surprised to see anything that supports what you're claiming.

Its all there in the scriptures....the Revelation is undergoing fulfillment as we speak....

Well isn't that convenient.

Sounds like a cop-out if I've ever seen one.

He is quite correct...early manuscripts do not contain that conclusion to the Lord's Prayer. It is taken from other scripture (probably 1 Chronicles 29:11) but they were not part of the original model prayer. It is a Protestant addition actually.

When Jesus taught his disciples to pray, he did not add those words to the end of his prayer for a very good reason....
Jesus knew that those words were not true in his day as they were in the days of King David when 1 Chronicles was written. So he taught his disciples to pray for God’s kingdom yet to "come", not that it was already a reality.

Today Jesus’ followers do not join in with Christendom in saying the spurious words: “For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.” Because these added words contradict the part of the prayer stating that the Kingdom was still to come.

You can't prove that they've omitted them, and I can't prove that they don't. So, I'm just supposed to take your word for it then, right?

Nokay.

I don't think so.

The KJV includes the verses; as well as all the lines of the Lord's Prayer are in the present tense. I'll lean unto scripture for my understanding.

Thanks.

Suit yourself, but a little research will prove you wrong.

Besides there are loads of other verses that make clear that Jesus IS King NOW and that the Kingdom is now.

The Kingdom is a government that will rule the whole earth once God has destroyed every last vestige of the devil's world system of government.
That has not happened yet.....we will all know when it does. It does not exactly happen in secret. (Matthew 25:31-33)

 

[Ziggy]

I had a thought..

The Jews are still waiting for the Messiah, and we are still waiting for the Kingdom.
Skipped some verses and bolded others. Please help with the BOLD

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
Heb 11:2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Heb 11:8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Heb 11:9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:
Heb 11:10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.

Heb 11:13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Heb 11:14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.
Heb 11:15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.
Heb 11:16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Heb 11:24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;
Heb 11:27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
Heb 11:40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Heb 12:18 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
Heb 12:19 And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
Heb 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

Heb 12:28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Thank You
Hugs

 

[RR144]

lSounds like a cop-out if I've ever seen one.

You can't prove that they've omitted them, and I can't prove that they don't. So, I'm just supposed to take your

The KJV includes the verses; as well as all the lines of the Lord's Prayer are in the present tense. I'll lean unto scripture for my understanding.

Most translations have it, but if you did your research you'd find that it doesn't belong. Any good study Bible will have a notation in its margin stating NU. Meaning it doesn't appear in the oldest manuscripts we have.

Besides there are loads of other verses that make clear that Jesus IS King NOW and that the Kingdom is now.

True, Jesus is indeed enthroned as King but his Kingdom has not been FULLY established.

 

[Robert Gwin]

It just smacks of "apostolic succession".

Looks like this topic has ran it's course Be.

 

[Ziggy]

True, Jesus is indeed enthroned as King but his Kingdom has not been FULLY established.

I believe it's been FULLY established since the foundation of the world.
We just can't see it.
Yet.
How could Jesus go and make a place for us, if there was no place ready for us to go?

Eze 37:24 And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd:
Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:

Eze 37:25 And they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever.
Jhn 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

Eze 37:26 Moreover I will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant with them:
Jhn 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid.

and I will place them, and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore.
Jhn 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Eze 37:27 My tabernacle also shall be with them: yea, I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Eze 37:28 And the heathen shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.
and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

You need to believe it to see it.

Hugs

 

[Davy]

Oh dear, what a lame excuse for your justification, which was created by men, many of whom claimed to be Christians.

One of us is confused about Christ’s words, so we might let the readers make up their own minds about that.....your scriptural support is rather sparse however. Patriotic sentiments often indoctrinated from infancy, water down or justify ignoring what does not suit their own chosen position. If that position is not based on the teachings of Jesus Christ, but on men of the world, do you never consider that this is “friendship with the world” which the Bible says “is enmity with God”? (James 4:4) Jesus never advocated armed violence among his disciples, so there is no way to justify participating in bloodshed that is not sanctioned by God. He punished his own people for shedding blood without his sanction. (Isaiah 1:15) God has not sanctioned a war since his people resided in the Promised Land. It’s defence was their only justification for bloodshed.

Do the wars of the nations in our day have God’s sanction? The fact is that God gave the nations permission to have control of their own affairs so that whatever decisions they made were their own affair....but since Jesus told us to be “no part of the world”......for Christians, any bloodshed, as part of the military, cannot be sanctioned. You are fighting as “part of the world”....not as Christ’s disciples.

The two world wars of last century involved “Christians” killing their own “brothers” of another nation.

1 John 4:20-21....
“If someone says, “I love God,” and yet he hates his brother or sister, he is a liar; for the one who does not love his brother and sister whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen. And this commandment we have from Him, that the one who loves God must also love his brother and sister.” (NASB)
The recent conflict in Ukraine has the same scenario.....so called “Christians” are killing other “Christians”......so just claiming to be a Christian doesn’t make you one. If your conduct doesn’t match your claim, then you have disqualified yourself.

Our warfare is not physical.....as it says in 2 Corinthians 10:3-5....
“For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage battle according to the flesh, for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. We are destroying arguments and all arrogance raised against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ.” (NASB)

The scriptures do not support your position.

Welcome to my IGNORE LIST. Your mind is so wrapped around men's traditions instead of God's written Word that it is impossible to even have a sensible conversation with you. You need to get rid of that 'other' spirit in you, because it is not from God.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Welcome to my IGNORE LIST. Your mind is so wrapped around men's traditions instead of God's written Word that it is impossible to even have a sensible conversation with you. You need to get rid of that 'other' spirit in you, because it is not from God.

So, no answer to my scripturally based reply to your post? OK....if it suits you to run away, I understand that any threat to your patriotic stance in justifying bloodshed is firmly fixed.

Have a good day.....