Who has the authority…

[theefaith]

Seeing as Jesus is God, I do not have a problem like some do in saying that Mary was the mother of God. But that doesn't make Mary God, nor to be prayed to. She is dead, not our hope, nor our advocate as your rosary makes you say.

no and I never said Mary was divine

not dead

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

advocate yes

Mary all powerful advocate!
Help of Christian’s!

Mary ever virgin, mother of God, is all powerful in her prayers, cos she is God!

Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!

and on becoming man He (Jesus) obeyed his own commandments

you might check out the one that says “honor Thy father and mother”

“My hour has not come”

The time set by almighty God for the public ministry of Christ had not come, Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!
John 2

and cos of her intercession the disciples believed in Him!
Jn 2:11

Is Paul Divine?

Phil 4:13 I can do all things in Christ who strengthens me.

Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Jesus said if you look up a woman with lust in your heart you committed adultery, i believe. What do you think about when Jesus says this? Some relate it as spiritual adultery having choose something other than God to love first instead.

Mary all powerful advocate!
Help of Christian’s!

Mary ever virgin, mother of God, is all powerful in her prayers, cos she is God!

Mary’s prayers are all powerful not cos she is God but because her son is God!

and on becoming man He (Jesus) obeyed his own commandments

you might check out the one that says “honor Thy father and mother”

“My hour has not come”

The time set by almighty God for the public ministry of Christ had not come, Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!

Those are all beliefs of the RCC, NOT Jesus, nor any apostle. Again you put Mary higher than her Son.

You: "Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!"

 

[theefaith]

Read the rosary - there are many more tributes to Mary than to God. Why? And why do you take away things like hope and our advocate away from Jesus and give them to His mother? Is it because you unconsciously see Jesus as still a child.

But the rosary is a Marian prayer

there are hundreds of prayers that never mention Mary

the rosary of the holy wounds for example

the church has always been Christ centered and always will be!

 

[theefaith]

Even in the rosary of Mary the meditations are on the life death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Even in the rosary of Mary the meditations are on the life death and resurrection of Jesus Christ!

I already showed you the abundance of Hail Mary's

 

[1stCenturyLady]

no and I never said Mary was divine

Then why do you kneel before her? That posture is only for God.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

Your statements that are opposite of what Scripture says!

Correction: MY STATEMENTS are opposite to what the Roman Catholic INTERPRETATION of Scripture is.

I've got no problem with THAT at all. The Roman Catholic Church (and to a lesser degree the Orthodox denominations) put their own heretical SPIN on many otherwise clear Bible passages.

 

[Marymog]

Correction: MY STATEMENTS are opposite to what the Roman Catholic INTERPRETATION of Scripture is.

Nope, not true Bob. Your "correction" is pedantic. Your statements are not only opposite of what Jesus said (this IS my body/blood) and what Paul said (it IS a participation in the body/blood) and what the earliest historical Christian writings from men who were taught by the Apostles say (it IS his body/blood) and what your fellow original Protestant Revolutionaries from the 16th century taught and what some of your current Protestant denominations still teach. So for you to pretend this is a 'Bob Carabbio's interpretation vs The Catholic Church interpretation' is NOT TRUE!

Sorry to burst your bubble....Keeping it real....Mary

 

[theefaith]

Not actually sir, the birth of Christianity happened on Pentecost of 33, many days after Jesus returned to heaven. If the Bible does not identify the faith, then all will be justified in whatever faith they choose. Best think it over Faith, as there are two roads, one leading into life, the other to destruction, and most are on it according to Jesus.

I will state openly, God does identify the faith beyond any doubt in the Bible.

then why send apostles to teach?

 

[theefaith]

Not actually sir, the birth of Christianity happened on Pentecost of 33, many days after Jesus returned to heaven. If the Bible does not identify the faith, then all will be justified in whatever faith they choose. Best think it over Faith, as there are two roads, one leading into life, the other to destruction, and most are on it according to Jesus.

I will state openly, God does identify the faith beyond any doubt in the Bible.

lk 3:2 did a book fall from the sky?

 

[theefaith]

Not actually sir, the birth of Christianity happened on Pentecost of 33, many days after Jesus returned to heaven. If the Bible does not identify the faith, then all will be justified in whatever faith they choose. Best think it over Faith, as there are two roads, one leading into life, the other to destruction, and most are on it according to Jesus.

I will state openly, God does identify the faith beyond any doubt in the Bible.

jn 3:5 born again

the text is in scripture but how do we interpret it?

Jn 3:5 born again by water and the spirit.

Does it mean “faith alone”? “Accept Jesus as your personal lord and savior”?

Or does it mean the Christian sacrament of baptism?

 

[theefaith]

Not actually sir, the birth of Christianity happened on Pentecost of 33, many days after Jesus returned to heaven. If the Bible does not identify the faith, then all will be justified in whatever faith they choose. Best think it over Faith, as there are two roads, one leading into life, the other to destruction, and most are on it according to Jesus.

I will state openly, God does identify the faith beyond any doubt in the Bible.

acts 2:42 rejects the doctrine of the “Bible alone”!

 

[theefaith]

No...that's like saying "Israel had the authority to interpret the law."

The authority is given by God alone, most commonly to chosen individuals. In the case of Israel however, they killed those individuals.

In the case of the church, God took the authority away from all men and gave it to the Holy Spirit and commanded the women [the bride] to be "silent."

Prophecy of the new covenant church fulfilled in the apostolic union with Christ!

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Scripture belongs to the church
The church wrote the New Testament the church only can be the authorized interpreter

No the church in the person of Peter and the apostles and their successors have received all power from Christ! Matt 28:18-20

matt 16:18-19
& Matt 18:18

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema

Extends to the truth and the church

Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13

Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32

Authority of the Apostles!

What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20


The Holy Spirit is not the author of spiritual anarchy!

but order in hierarchical authority of Peter and the apostles

 

[theefaith]

Those are all beliefs of the RCC, NOT Jesus, nor any apostle. Again you put Mary higher than her Son.

You: "Jesus Christ still performed the miracle cos his mother interceded, thus a higher law, “honor thy father and mother” if ANYONE else asked it would NOT have been done!"

only cos the commandments are a higher law!

1)Jesus and his church never taught spiritual adultery.

2) Jesus and his church did teach Mary.

3) we don’t worship or adore or offer sacrifice to Mary!

4) we don’t put Mary above God
Or any person of the trinity!

5) love, reverence, veneration, praise of Mary redounds to the glory of God!

Praise of Mary and the saints redounds to the Glory of Who created them, Lk 1:49 to Christ who redeemed them, and to the Holy Spirit who sanctified them with graces obtained by the merits of Christ! Source of Grace is Christ! Jn 1:16-17


6) 2 Thessalonians 1:10
When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

7) All the Saints are alive in Christ and pray for each other!

John 11:25
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

 

[theefaith]

Then why do you kneel before her? That posture is only for God.

Is you’re bed divine?

why do kneel before it?

that posture is for prayer!

Fundamentalism is darkness!

Christ is the light of the world!

Fundamentalism is extremist and a violation of the Christian virtue of moderation! Phil 4:5

Jesus did not say learn of me cos I’m full of pride, presumption, & arrogance but Learn of me meek for I am meek and humble of heart!

James 3:14
But if you have bitter zeal, and there be contentions in your hearts; glory not, and be not liars against the truth.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

only cos the commandments are a higher law!

Does the RCC teach you that you are under the Ten Commandments?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Is you’re bed divine?

why do kneel before it?

that posture is for prayer!

Fundamentalism is darkness!

Christ is the light of the world!

Fundamentalism is extremist and a violation of the Christian virtue of moderation! Phil 4:5

Jesus did not say learn of me cos I’m full of pride, presumption, & arrogance but Learn of me meek for I am meek and humble of heart!

James 3:14
But if you have bitter zeal, and there be contentions in your hearts; glory not, and be not liars against the truth.

I don't pray to the bed, but you knell and pray to Mary or do you deny that?

 

[Enoch111]

Who has the authority to interpret scripture?

Certainly not the corrupt pope and his gang of cardinals. If the Lord sent Peter back to earth to clean house, he would drive out everyone from the Vatican.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

@theefaith

Why are all your posts about non scriptural things like the RCC denomination being the only Church, or the pope, or Peter or Mary. Why do you not present anything regarding Christianity?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Thanks Robert for your well thought out response. I appreciate it. This helps me better understand what you have been taught. However, your response conjures up more questions.

Who decides if the church leaders you speak of "are in harmony with the Bible's teachings" and what they told me "to do is in line with Scripture"?

I agree with you that "There is a chain of command among Christians" and "if the governing body said it we obey it". But if I decide that the chain of command for the Catholic Church teachings are in harmony/in line with the bible and you decide that the chain of command of the SDA's teaching are in harmony/in line with the bibles teachings and both have opposite teachings from Scripture......did I make the right decision or did you? After all, we are talking about eternal salvation here so we must get it right.

Also, since your men (hypothetically) teach a different 'truth' than my men how do we KNOW which teaching is the truth? Can you see why I am confused by your post....because it seems to me what you are saying is that each individual can figure out the Truth of Scripture (quote: what road you choose to follow) and then we must go find the Church that teaches that truth (which is really our truth). Maybe that's not what you are saying...but that's how I read it!

Looking forward to some clarification.....Mary

Who decides if the church leaders you speak of "are in harmony with the Bible's teachings" and what they told me "to do is in line with Scripture"?
Hi Mary, more than happy to help maam. This really takes us back to the original question of who interprets. The answer is you do. You personally are accountable, you personally have to choose, God gave you the Bible, and you personally have to recognize who God is, and who are His people and go with them Zech 8:23. There are 2 roads, only one to life which only a few find.

Keep in mind, it is easy to find God's people, how? God promises that you will be reached by one of His people Mat 28:19, 20. When everyone is reached to His satisfaction, then He will bring this world to it's close. Mat 24:14. Likely you are aware, that although an individual may be reached many times by God's people, once they have been approached, God has fulfilled His obligation correct? What does it mean to be reached? Given the opportunity to come to know God and worship Him in spirit and truth. Do you agree?

I agree with you that "There is a chain of command among Christians" and "if the governing body said it we obey it". But if I decide that the chain of command for the Catholic Church teachings are in harmony/in line with the bible and you decide that the chain of command of the SDA's teaching are in harmony/in line with the bibles teachings and both have opposite teachings from Scripture......did I make the right decision or did you? After all, we are talking about eternal salvation here so we must get it right.
So very true Mary. I will state frankly, and most likely you will agree. God does not require something of us, and then not tell us how to do it, but when He instructs He does expect us to be exacting as we can be in obedience Gen 6:22; 1 Jn 5:3. If you believe the Bible is God's inspired word, then logically you believe He reveals the way He desires to be worshipped. Jesus stated very clearly that one of his disciples could be identified by their fruits, so those fruits must be included in the Bible. The Bible identifies the faith maam, beyond any reasonable doubt. If you are honest, the faith is quite easy to identify.

Also, since your men (hypothetically) teach a different 'truth' than my men how do we KNOW which teaching is the truth? Can you see why I am confused by your post....because it seems to me what you are saying is that each individual can figure out the Truth of Scripture (quote: what road you choose to follow) and then we must go find the Church that teaches that truth (which is really our truth). Maybe that's not what you are saying...but that's how I read it!
If we teach differently than you, then we are not of the same faith obviously, so which one if either is the faith? You are asking the right questions Mary, if I teach something different than you, then just as you did, corner me on it. Demand a reason for my faith 1 Pet 3:15, make me make full proof of my ministry 2 Tim 4:5

I truly appreciate speaking with you maam, you are courteous, logical, honest, qualities that are not often found today.