Calling God a creator is limiting God and time is an illusion

[GEN2REV]

Something that is infinite has no dimensions. You say God has a personality and gets angry, sad, etc. This is ultimately objectifying and reducing God, that's the contradiction.

I can't know what 'dimensions' God has because He is spirit.
John 4:24

Deciding that we, as humans, can judge what God is, must/mustn't be, or what is a proper measurement of Him, as opposed to what reduces Him, is the contradiction.

The only place you will find absolute Truth is within the Word of God. The only way to decide what properly defines, or reduces God, is within the Bible itself.

My opinions are not influenced by my beliefs.

Opinions are constructed from beliefs. Beliefs are the building blocks of opinions.

New Age thinking has made me a better Christian and brought about a renewal by allowing me to close the gap between a belief and experience.

Faith is the basis of Christianity. Faith in God and what He has told us in His Word. New Age thinking is the enemy of Faith in all regards.

And experience is not only completely subjective, but it changes with each observation. It is totally fleeting and alters itself constantly. The dynamics of modern meditation will do nothing for your Christian understanding of God or Truth.

You have completely dodged my question.

Why do you profess to be a Christian? Your own description of your beliefs and perspectives are very contradictory to Christian fundamentals.

 

[GEN2REV]

GEN2REV, leaving Einstein saying time is an illusion aside, you said we are confined to time and space. Taking an honest look at your experience, are you not always here and now regardless of the month, year, hour, or physical location? When you remember something from the past, is it not now? When you plan for the future, is it not now? Have you ever had the experience of not being here and now? Actually go to what 'here now' points to in your experience. No thinking or belief needed, just a simple experiment. Then tell me about the existence of time and space.

Your body, mind, name, beliefs, and thoughts belong to you. Who are you then if those things belong to you but aren't you?

View attachment 21266

You are refusing to have a conversation and simply repeating yourself.

If we can't have an exchange of ideas, there is no reason for me to continue this discussion.

You were asked a direct question that you are refusing to address. Is it a threat to you? Why can't you respond to those who have had the courtesy of responding to the thread you started?

 

[Nyseto]

I profess to be a Christian because I understand what Jesus meant by "The father and I are one" and that I AM is the name of God. I AM as well. Underneath my name and form, I AM. Christian fundamentals are actually against true Christianity. People make fundamentals out of Christianity, not Christianity itself. Dogmatic Christianity≠Christianity.

Even though experience changes, it is still always here and now. Consciousness is like a movie screen and its contents are the movie with all the phenomena taking place. Experiences come and go but experienc-ing-, doesn't. The knowing with which you know anything at all remains changeless and untouched. The knowing you had at 4 years old is the same knowing with which you perceive these words.

Whether you're on Earth or in heaven, is it still not here and now?

 

[ScottA]

Do you think that the lowliness of how we think is a result of Christianity having been filtered through Greek and Roman thinking or having been taken over by the West? Greek thinking is very dualistic and differentiating.

Not really, although I am sure it is a part.

I would just say that men are prone to think like men, and it results in all manner of discourse from what God has been about during these times, inching us forward toward "all truth", as it is with God.

 

[GEN2REV]

I profess to be a Christian because I understand what Jesus meant by "The father and I are one" and that I AM is the name of God. I AM as well. Underneath my name and form, I AM. Christian fundamentals are actually against true Christianity. People make fundamentals out of Christianity, not Christianity itself. Dogmatic Christianity≠Christianity.

Even though experience changes, it is still always here and now. Consciousness is like a movie screen and its contents are the movie with all the phenomena taking place. Experiences come and go but experienc-ing-, doesn't. The knowing with which you know anything at all remains changeless and untouched. The knowing you had at 4 years old is the same knowing with which you perceive these words.

Whether you're on Earth or in heaven, is it still not here and now?

All New Age.

You have no real understanding of God or scripture.

And claiming to be God is someone's first clue that they're not a Christian.

I'll let the mods decide if I'm wrong for saying so, and if so, I will retract.

This is the Christian debate forum and you are not presenting yourself as a Christian, nor are you debating Christian concepts.

 

[Nyseto]

All New Age.

You have no real understanding of God or scripture.

And claiming to be God is your first clue that you're not a Christian.

I'll let the mods decide if I'm wrong for saying so, and if so, I will retract.

This is the Christian debate forum and you are not a Christian, nor are you debating Christian concepts.

I think you are projecting your idea of me not having a clear understanding of scripture. You are not being honest with yourself and looking at your direct experience.

The Bible says I AM is the name of God. Before you say anything about yourself, you must first say, 'I am'. I AM human. I AM John. I AM Christian. If you strip all labels and names from yourself, is I AM not what's left? Do you not simply exist at the end of the day? It seems that your actual experience is a threat to your beliefs and you chalk it all up as 'New Age' in order for your ego to remain intact. You believe we are confined to time and space but your experience of here and now suggests otherwise which reflects the defensiveness in your posts.

Is I AM not the one thing you can be absolutely certain of? Who is the 'I' with which you know anything at all?

This is what I mean about dogmatic Christianity. It is people like you who memorize the Bible cover to cover and use it as a shtick to get a sense of superiority and being even more divisive. That makes you no different than the followers of a different religion who think theirs is the truth. You see New Age as a threat and rightfully so; because it goes against divisiveness.

 

[Enoch111]

All of those names belong to God, but God doesn't belong to any of them.

Well are you trying to manufacture your own God? We all know that God is well beyond TOTAL human comprehension, but the very fact that Jesus -- who is indeed God -- became Man and shows us the character of God. Even that in itself should be sufficient to understand why all those names and titles apply to God. The simple fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is our Savior and Redeemer should be more than enough. His name means "God is our Salvation".

 

[Nyseto]

Well are you trying to manufacture your own God? We all know that God is well beyond TOTAL human comprehension, but the very fact that Jesus -- who is indeed God -- became Man and shows us the character of God. Even that in itself should be sufficient to understand why all those names and titles apply to God. The simple fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is our Savior and Redeemer should be more than enough. His name means "God is our Salvation".

No, I'm not manufacturing my own God. I am simply saying God is the beingness which underlies all form such as you and I. The Bible says I AM is the name of God. We all have to first say I am before we describe ourselves. Your I AM is also my I AM. Even Jesus knew he was one with God. We even live in an eternal present. Everything that has happened or could happen, takes place now.

An ocean has many waves on it but all waves are the same substance. The separation between the waves and the ocean is illusory. You are not just a drop in the ocean, but also the entire ocean in a drop.

 

[GEN2REV]

I think you are projecting your idea of me not having a clear understanding of scripture. You are not being honest with yourself and looking at your direct experience.

The Bible says I AM is the name of God. Before you say anything about yourself, you must first say, 'I am'. I AM human. I AM John. I AM Christian. If you strip all labels and names from yourself, is I AM not what's left? Do you not simply exist at the end of the day? It seems that your actual experience is a threat to your beliefs and you chalk it all up as 'New Age' in order for your ego to remain intact. You believe we are confined to time and space but your experience of here and now suggests otherwise which reflects the defensiveness in your posts.

Is I AM not the one thing you can be absolutely certain of? Who is the 'I' with which you know anything at all?

This is what I mean about dogmatic Christianity. It is people like you who memorize the Bible cover to cover and use it as a shtick to get a sense of superiority and being even more divisive. That makes you no different than the followers of a different religion who think theirs is the truth. You see New Age as a threat and rightfully so; because it goes against divisiveness.

I will reserve any further debate with you until you can use scriptural references for your points of argument.

Otherwise, you are just using your own ideas and opinions to argue against God and the Bible ... based on your currently-held beliefs.

 

[Nyseto]

I will reserve any further debate with you until you can use scriptural references for your points of argument.

Otherwise, you are just using your own ideas and opinions to argue against God and the Bible ... based on your currently-held beliefs.

You are reading these words through God's eyes. Have you ever once in your life asked yourself who you really are beyond whatever name or label you use for yourself? Scripture is metaphorical and largely allegorical. You claim to know scripture so very well, but you do not know what it points to. You have confused the menu for the meal and when someone comes along and points this out for you, you immediately feel a resistance inside and rightfully so. I am only throwing water at your face here

 

[GEN2REV]

Here's some light reading for you to better educate yourself where your very un-Christian beliefs originated.

"I AM" Activity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Guy and Edna Ballard
The "I AM" Movement is the original Ascended Master Teachings religious movement founded in the early 1930s by Guy Ballard (1878–1939) and his wife Edna Anne Wheeler Ballard (1886–1971) in Chicago, Illinois.[1] It is an offshoot of theosophy and a major precursor of several New Age religions including the Church Universal and Triumphant.[2] The movement had up to a million followers in 1938[3] and is still active today on a smaller scale. According to the official website of the parent organization, the Saint Germain Foundation, its worldwide headquarters is located in Schaumburg, Illinois, and there are[when?] approximately 300 local groups worldwide under several variations of the names "I AM" Sanctuary, "I AM" Temple, and other similar titles.[4] As of 2007, the organization states that its purpose is "spiritual, educational and practical," and that no admission fee is charged for their activities.[5] The term "I AM" is a reference to the ancient Sanskrit mantra "So Ham", meaning "I Am that I Am".[6]
"I AM" Activity - Wikipedia

The very next paragraph on that link lists Helena Petrovna Blavatsky as another source of these beliefs.

Since you are very uneducated about your own New Age doctrine, I will inform you that she is a known witch.

What you are preaching here is witchcraft.

 

[Nyseto]

Here's some light reading for you to better educate you where your very un-Christian beliefs originated.

"I AM" Activity
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Guy and Edna Ballard
The "I AM" Movement is the original Ascended Master Teachings religious movement founded in the early 1930s by Guy Ballard (1878–1939) and his wife Edna Anne Wheeler Ballard (1886–1971) in Chicago, Illinois.[1] It is an offshoot of theosophy and a major precursor of several New Age religions including the Church Universal and Triumphant.[2] The movement had up to a million followers in 1938[3] and is still active today on a smaller scale. According to the official website of the parent organization, the Saint Germain Foundation, its worldwide headquarters is located in Schaumburg, Illinois, and there are[when?] approximately 300 local groups worldwide under several variations of the names "I AM" Sanctuary, "I AM" Temple, and other similar titles.[4] As of 2007, the organization states that its purpose is "spiritual, educational and practical," and that no admission fee is charged for their activities.[5] The term "I AM" is a reference to the ancient Sanskrit mantra "So Ham", meaning "I Am that I Am".[6]
"I AM" Activity - Wikipedia

The very next paragraph on that link lists Helena Petrovna Blavatsky as another source of these beliefs.

Since you are very uneducated about your own New Age doctrine, I will inform you that she is a known witch.

What you are preaching here is witchcraft.

Oh, so now you're going to 'educate me'. Is this what memorizing the Bible does to someone? If only Jesus was here to chime in.

And I AM is not a belief although you can make it a belief or a movement if you want. Despite all that, it is your reality. You first have to be in order to see these words don't you? I did not know that me pointing to your I AM is witchcraft. Are you sure you're not from the 1400s with the Spanish Inquisition?

Do you realize your name is only a name that can change? Do you know that the term 'human' for example is a man made construct that varies from language to language?

The more we think we know, the more we find we actually don't know.

 

[GEN2REV]

You are reading these words through God's eyes. Have you ever once in your life asked yourself who you really are beyond whatever name or label you use for yourself? Scripture is metaphorical and largely allegorical. You claim to know scripture so very well, but you do not know what it points to. You have confused the menu for the meal and when someone comes along and points this out for you, you immediately feel a resistance inside and rightfully so. I am only throwing water at your face here

I already informed you that everything you are saying I steeped myself in for 14 years.

Not one single bit of it is new. And NONE of it is Christian.

There is nothing new under the sun. Only new representations of old truths.

 

[GEN2REV]

Is this what memorizing the Bible does to someone?

I thought you were a Christian.

Are we being honest now?

 

[GEN2REV]

The "I AM" Movement is the original Ascended Master Teachings religious movement founded in the early 1930s by Guy Ballard (1878–1939) and his wife Edna Anne Wheeler Ballard (1886–1971) in Chicago, Illinois.[1] It is an offshoot of theosophy and a major precursor of several New Age religions including the Church Universal and Triumphant.[2] The movement had up to a million followers in 1938[3] and is still active today on a smaller scale. According to the official website of the parent organization, the Saint Germain Foundation, its worldwide headquarters is located in Schaumburg, Illinois, and there are[when?] approximately 300 local groups worldwide under several variations of the names "I AM" Sanctuary, "I AM" Temple, and other similar titles.[4] As of 2007, the organization states that its purpose is "spiritual, educational and practical," and that no admission fee is charged for their activities.[5] The term "I AM" is a reference to the ancient Sanskrit mantra "So Ham", meaning "I Am that I Am".
"I AM" Activity - Wikipedia

 

[GEN2REV]

The movement believes in the existence of a group called the Ascended Masters, a hierarchy of supernatural beings that includes the original Theosophical Masters such as Jesus Christ, El Morya Khan, Maitreya, and in addition several dozen more beyond the original 20 Masters of the Ancient Wisdom of the original Theosophists as described by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky.
"I AM" Activity - Wikipedia

Blavatsky the Satanist: Luciferianism in Theosophy, and its Feminist Implications
https://journal.fi/temenos/article/view/7512

 

[GEN2REV]

If only Jesus was here to chime in.

For the record, Jesus is here.

If you are any kind of Christian, you should know that.

 

[Rudometkin]

There are two main things I wanted to bring up which undermine the Bible. The first one is the very word 'God' and whatever definitions are associated with it (love, creator).

Then the term "God is Love" undermines the Bible.

What does the Bible say?

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. (1 John 4:16)

In order to be consistent and defend your position, you must affirm the Bible undermines itself.

Does the Bible undermine itself?

 

[Nyseto]

Then the term "God is Love" undermines the Bible.

What does the Bible say?

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. (1 John 4:16)

In order to be consistent and defend your position, you must affirm the Bible undermines itself.

Does the Bible undermine itself?

Yes, which is why the Bible is mostly metaphorical or allegorical. 'God is love'. God is also beyond all definition. Saying God is this or that is really an attempt at defining the undefinable and yes, I know I'm still using the word God here and all that. Language is clumsy and finite, it cannot contain the infinite. You can parrot all day that God is love while not experiencing it for yourself, for example.

 

[Rudometkin]

It is good, not because it is better or contrary to the scriptures, which I concur are perfect. But rather, it is good because it expresses the lowliness of how we think compared with the higher thoughts and greater infinite reality of God.

More importantly, it is a start, a suggestion to begin the renewing of our minds from our natural inclination to think in terms of this world, to the actual ways of God and that heavenly destination He has appointed us.

To explain further...my own salvation--the thought of God, came to me as a last resort. That is the inclination of most who, even believing in God, live and think. Fortunately, God did not honor my own first intentions, but carried me to that place where I could cry out to Him and ask for the One thing that is needed (Luke 10:42). When I did, it was for "answers" and "what life here in the world is all for"...and He answered. And I am here to tell you--those thousands of other ways of perceiving His truth that seem right to men--are mostly wrong.

Praise be to God and His Son Jesus Christ, for they have been faithful to carry us through to the End!

Praise anti-biblical teaching because it reminds you of something you like.

Call it good.