Were the Church Fathers Sent by God?

[Pearl]

Please give scripture supporting this.

Mark 16:14-16

14 Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.

15 He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

This commission was to the eleven but does include all followers of Jesus?

 

[Rich R]

Who do you mean by the Church Fathers?

Good question.

Here's what Wikipedia says:

The Church Fathers, Early Church Fathers, Christian Fathers, or Fathers of the Church were ancient and influential Christian theologians and writers who established the intellectual and doctrinal foundations of Christianity. The historical period in which they worked became known as the Patristic Era and spans approximately from the late 1st to mid 8th centuries, flourishing in particular during the 4th and 5th centuries, when Christianity was in the process of establishing itself as the state church of the Roman Empire.

Church Fathers - Wikipedia
​

If you don't trust Wikipedia, here's something from Catholic.com

The Fathers of the Church are so called because of their leadership in the early Church, especially in defending, expounding, and developing Catholic doctrines. For the first two centuries, most of these men were bishops, although in later years certain priests and deacons were also recognized as Fathers.

Who Were the Church Fathers?
​

Google "church fathers" for another 2.25 million answers. :)

Hope that helps.

 

[theefaith]

Strong's Concordance definition of Apostle:

G652 ἀπόστολος apostolos (a-po'-sto-los) n.
1. a delegate.
2. (specially) an ambassador of the Gospel.
3. (officially) a commissioner of Christ, “apostle” (with miraculous powers).​

Paul said many times that he was an apostle sent by God.

1 Cor 1:1,

Paul, [a] called apostle of Jesus Christ, by God's will, and Sosthenes the brother,
​

2 Cor 1:1,

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
​

Gal 1:1,

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
​

There's more places where he unambiguously claims to be sent by God.

Do any of the Church Fathers make the same claim? References would be most helpful.

Thanks! :)

Yes they are successors of the apostles
Acts 1:15
1:20
1:26

bishops in the apostolic tradition

 

[quietthinker]

Were the Church Fathers Sent by God?
talking donkey's.....hmmmm, I wondered about that!

 

[Waiting on him]

Technically, I was wrong to say we are commissioned. I may have been a bit loose in choosing my words. Good catch!

However there is this:

Acts 8:3-4,

3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison.

4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
​

Rom 1:8,

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.​

Phil 1:14,

And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.​

1 Pet 3:15,

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
​

Ps 96:1-3,

1 O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth.

2 Sing unto the LORD, bless his name; shew forth his salvation from day to day.

3 Declare his glory among the heathen, his wonders among all people.
​

I'm pretty sure all of these were written to or about regular Christians. Let me know if you see something I'm missing. With verses please. :)

So you also believe we’re successors?

 

[BarneyFife]

So you also believe we’re successors?

Wouldn't that depend upon your definition of "successors?"

:)

 

[BarneyFife]

Ha good question, it is known in Mormonism there is the “12 apostles “ … however Joseph Smith, in the first thirty pages of his making of the Book of Mormon it had rail against the Bible being false and not be trusted.

Dangerous place to be rich. To not trust the Bible as reliable

I do not know much about the early church fathers.

I visited your linked website for Christian education. It's very well presented. It's a shame you have to register to access anything of substance.

:)

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

In a word, no.

I think it might be a mistake to make too much of the word "apostle" apart from the original twelve.

After all, isn't the great Great Gospel Commission applicable to all believers? Does it not "send" us all? I'm sure the Catholic tradition would disagree, of course, and understandably so, I think, as a natural product of, as so many have, a lifetime of belief.

Very nice thread and OP, btw. :)

The Great Commission was given only to the apostles. This is not a matter of someone being conditioned to believe that the opposite was true. The context in Matt. 28:16 clearly shows Jesus talking to the men who were chosen by God to possess that authority. There isn't a single passage that shows Jesus conferring the ability to make disciples on the lay member, especially because Paul stated in Eph. 4:12 that their duty is to be students.

Everybody that attends a school can't be a teacher or a principal. Someone's job is to teach, someone's job is to make sure that the whole school is running smoothly, and others have to be students. God constructed the NT Church in the same way He constructed the OT priesthood: some were given the authority to lead, others were given the task of teaching, and the rest were supposed to be students.

If the schools in this world understand the fact that students cannot give themselves the authority of a teacher, then surely professing Christians should understand that the same holds true for Christianity.

 

[Rich R]

So you also believe we’re successors?

I believe the verses I quoted.

 

[BarneyFife]

In a word, no.The Great Commission was given only to the apostles. This is not a matter of someone being conditioned to believe that the opposite was true. The context in Matt. 28:16 clearly shows Jesus talking to the men who were chosen by God to possess that authority. There isn't a single passage that shows Jesus conferring the ability to make disciples on the lay member, especially because Paul stated in Eph. 4:12 that their duty is to be students.

Everybody that attends a school can't be a teacher or a principal. Someone's job is to teach, someone's job is to make sure that the whole school is running smoothly, and others have to be students. God constructed the NT Church in the same way He constructed the OT priesthood: some were given the authority to lead, others were given the task of teaching, and the rest were supposed to be students.

If the schools in this world understand the fact that students cannot give themselves the authority of a teacher, then surely professing Christians should understand that the same holds true for Christianity.

Should we therefore not do any of the following:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”​

Is He not always with us?
Does all that Jesus said only to His disciples therefore not apply to us?

:)

 

[MatthewG]

I visited your linked website for Christian education. It's very well presented. It's a shame you have to register to access anything of substance.

:)

It use to be free there is still free content presented at Heart of the matter with Shawn Mccranny on YouTube if you look it up.

since having finished all the apostolic record he decided after about 5 years of being online and open it would be good to get a little support for it, the registration is 3.16$ (John 3:16) and that includes a lot a context all the verse by verse that use to be on Campus. He made the decision to move to private and make it into a school. I think that was the price they moved to it was gonna be 20$ a month.

He has now started doing verse by verse Old Testament Genesis.

Not a denomination, it is simply an approach and he was always adamant for People to think and study the Bible for themselves and challenge anything tradition has taught to them.

Thank you telling me,
God bless friend.

 

[BarneyFife]

Technically, I was wrong to say we are commissioned. I may have been a bit loose in choosing my words. Good catch!

However there is this:

Acts 8:3-4,

3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison.

4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
​

Rom 1:8,

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.​

Phil 1:14,

And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.​

1 Pet 3:15,

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
​

Ps 96:1-3,

1 O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth.

2 Sing unto the LORD, bless his name; shew forth his salvation from day to day.

3 Declare his glory among the heathen, his wonders among all people.
​

I'm pretty sure all of these were written to or about regular Christians. Let me know if you see something I'm missing. With verses please. :)

Don't forget 1 Peter 2:9

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;​

:)

 

[MatthewG]

Should we therefore not do any of the following:

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”​

Is He not always with us?
Does all that Jesus said only to His disciples therefore not apply to us?

:)

You know we can’t do enough to earn salvation.

Jesus makes it possible by believing in the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto Salvation.

I agree it is good to teach people the word of God. While you are doing this and digging deep in scripture even putting aside traditions though bring it up if applicable to the other denominations which may teach something that is contrary to the scripture.

You get close to God, almost as though you are walking with Jesus and his disciples as a third person viewer who gets to decide how they will present the message surround Jesus and the disciples and the context.

It’s important… it is what can clear confusion, God is not a God of confusion.


I might not be teaching others right now as it is, though I have my own youtube. One day I’m hoping as I continue to be sober maybe I can do the same thing Shawn has done for the love of God and love for others.


That should be why anyone desires to teach, is out of love for God and love for others and ultimately not to satisfy the self.

They should also be encouraged to study and think for themselves. For the faith is subjective at the end of the day.

Take care,
In Christ,
Matthew Gallagher

 

[BarneyFife]

You know we can’t do enough to earn salvation.

Did I give the impression that I believe we can? I certainly didn't intend to.

:)

 

[MatthewG]

You just helped me in my own mind, my friend.

Also heard on the radio station earlier as well.

Then seeing the posting of he making the disciples, it is true we should desire to help people in their faith. However Gods not gonna love us more than he already does now!

How profound…


I never had to do anything for God to love me.
Praise be to God and His Son for reconciling the world!

 

[BarneyFife]

You just helped me in my own mind, my friend.

Also heard on the radio station earlier as well.

Then seeing the posting of he making the disciples, it is true we should desire to help people in their faith. However Gods not gonna love us more than he already does now!

How profound…


I never had to do anything for God to love me.
Praise be to God and His Son for reconciling the world!

PRAISE THE LORD, BROTHER!!

 

[Waiting on him]

Don't forget 1 Peter 2:9

But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;​

:)

A chosen generation, yes!

 

[Waiting on him]

Wouldn't that depend upon your definition of "successors?"

:)

Maybe more upon whom one follows?

 

[Waiting on him]

I believe I saw a church father the other day on the corner of Innes street and Main.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Strong's Concordance definition of Apostle:

G652 ἀπόστολος apostolos (a-po'-sto-los) n.
1. a delegate.
2. (specially) an ambassador of the Gospel.
3. (officially) a commissioner of Christ, “apostle” (with miraculous powers).​

Paul said many times that he was an apostle sent by God.

1 Cor 1:1,

Paul, [a] called apostle of Jesus Christ, by God's will, and Sosthenes the brother,
​

2 Cor 1:1,

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
​

Gal 1:1,

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
​

There's more places where he unambiguously claims to be sent by God.

Do any of the Church Fathers make the same claim? References would be most helpful.

Thanks! :)

Hi Rich, the apostle Paul was personally chosen by Jesus to be an apostle to the nations sir. Actually Jesus made a new covenant with his faithful apostles on the night of his death, and it went into force on Pentecost of that year. They would continue to be chosen and then anointed by holy spirit until their numbers would be fully selected, even into our day.