Were the Church Fathers Sent by God?

[Rich R]

Strong's Concordance definition of Apostle:

G652 ἀπόστολος apostolos (a-po'-sto-los) n.
1. a delegate.
2. (specially) an ambassador of the Gospel.
3. (officially) a commissioner of Christ, “apostle” (with miraculous powers).​

Paul said many times that he was an apostle sent by God.

1 Cor 1:1,

Paul, [a] called apostle of Jesus Christ, by God's will, and Sosthenes the brother,
​

2 Cor 1:1,

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
​

Gal 1:1,

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
​

There's more places where he unambiguously claims to be sent by God.

Do any of the Church Fathers make the same claim? References would be most helpful.

Thanks!

 

[MatthewG]

Ha good question, it is known in Mormonism there is the “12 apostles “ … however Joseph Smith, in the first thirty pages of his making of the Book of Mormon it had rail against the Bible being false and not be trusted.

Dangerous place to be rich. To not trust the Bible as reliable

I do not know much about the early church fathers.

 

[Rich R]

Ha good question, it is known in Mormonism there is the “12 apostles “ … however Joseph Smith, in the first thirty pages of his making of the Book of Mormon it had rail against the Bible being false and not be trusted.

Dangerous place to be rich. To not trust the Bible as reliable

I do not know much about the early church fathers.

That's what I'm thinking brother, but there is a lot of faith that many Christians put into what the Church Fathers said, so I was wondering if they had any real authority to say the things they said.

Personally, I don't any think any of them, as sincere as they may have been, were commissioned by God as was Paul, but I if I'm missing something I'd like to know.

Also, I think this Post might cause some folks to reconsider their trust in the Church Fathers, especially when they often contradicted the scriptures. Like yourself, I trust the scriptures and nothing but the scriptures. I know of no other document that claims it contains everything about life and godliness (2 Peter 1:3). Good enough for me - and then some!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Strong's Concordance definition of Apostle:

G652 ἀπόστολος apostolos (a-po'-sto-los) n.
1. a delegate.
2. (specially) an ambassador of the Gospel.
3. (officially) a commissioner of Christ, “apostle” (with miraculous powers).​

Paul said many times that he was an apostle sent by God.

1 Cor 1:1,

Paul, [a] called apostle of Jesus Christ, by God's will, and Sosthenes the brother,
​

2 Cor 1:1,

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
​

Gal 1:1,

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
​

There's more places where he unambiguously claims to be sent by God.

Do any of the Church Fathers make the same claim? References would be most helpful.

Thanks!

Barnabas is also called an apostle in the New Testament, but as far as NT referring to anyone else an apostle, Paul and Barnabas were the last. Church Fathers after the death of John made many mistakes.

Edit: Jesus is the one who appoints offices in the Church. He can speak to us today from the Holy Spirit and appoint these offices too. But the apostles received revelations that became scriptures. Appointed pastors and teachers merely rightly divide the Word of God written by the apostles that wrote canonized scripture. Personally, I believe that the Epistle of Barnabas is also scripture and was read in all the early churches as such. Seeing as Hebrews isn't signed by Paul, it is thought that Barnabas wrote Hebrews. I certainly got a lot out of it. And The Epistle of Barnabas was quoted in the Didache, The Teachings of the Twelve Apostles.

 

[Rich R]

Barnabas is also called an apostle in the New Testament, but as far as NT referring to anyone else an apostle, Paul and Barnabas were the last. Church Fathers after the death of John made many mistakes.

I forgot about Barnabas. I think it fair to say Barnabas, like Paul, never contradicted the scriptures as did the Church Fathers.

Thanks for the reminder!

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I forgot about Barnabas. I think it fair to say Barnabas, like Paul, never contradicted the scriptures as did the Church Fathers.

Thanks for the reminder!

I edited my post, please go back and read the edit.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Ha good question, it is known in Mormonism there is the “12 apostles “ … however Joseph Smith, in the first thirty pages of his making of the Book of Mormon it had rail against the Bible being false and not be trusted.

Dangerous place to be rich. To not trust the Bible as reliable

I do not know much about the early church fathers.

Actual "Mormon" here: ^ This is not accurate. Yes, LDS Christians have twelve apostles like in olden times, but that's not because the Bible isn't the word of God.

----

As to the actual OP here about the Early Church Fathers: after Paul & Barnabas, in the early years there were some person whom claimed the title, but were quickly killed. Christian structural organization in the ~200's was really really messy with persecution from all sides, including within as many views were considered heresies by others.

The "Early Church Fathers" time period starts up after Christianity is adopted as the religion of the Roman empire and continues for the next millinumn. It's an era with more formal organization & theological study. A lot of their work is foundational to modern Creedal Christianity, including writing of the Creeds.

As to my personal view of them: I totally acknowledge that they were men striving their best to follow God & what they thought was right, but I do believe they drifted off course.

 

[BarneyFife]

Strong's Concordance definition of Apostle:

G652 ἀπόστολος apostolos (a-po'-sto-los) n.
1. a delegate.
2. (specially) an ambassador of the Gospel.
3. (officially) a commissioner of Christ, “apostle” (with miraculous powers).​

Paul said many times that he was an apostle sent by God.

1 Cor 1:1,

Paul, [a] called apostle of Jesus Christ, by God's will, and Sosthenes the brother,
​

2 Cor 1:1,

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
​

Gal 1:1,

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
​

There's more places where he unambiguously claims to be sent by God.

Do any of the Church Fathers make the same claim? References would be most helpful.

Thanks!

I think it might be a mistake to make too much of the word "apostle" apart from the original twelve.

After all, isn't the great Great Gospel Commission applicable to all believers? Does it not "send" us all? I'm sure the Catholic tradition would disagree, of course, and understandably so, I think, as a natural product of, as so many have, a lifetime of belief.

Very nice thread and OP, btw.

 

[BarneyFife]

Strong's Concordance definition of Apostle:

G652 ἀπόστολος apostolos (a-po'-sto-los) n.
1. a delegate.
2. (specially) an ambassador of the Gospel.
3. (officially) a commissioner of Christ, “apostle” (with miraculous powers).​

Paul said many times that he was an apostle sent by God.

1 Cor 1:1,

Paul, [a] called apostle of Jesus Christ, by God's will, and Sosthenes the brother,
​

2 Cor 1:1,

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy [our] brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
​

Gal 1:1,

Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead
​

There's more places where he unambiguously claims to be sent by God.

Do any of the Church Fathers make the same claim? References would be most helpful.

Thanks!

Oh, by the way, as touching the main point of your thread, I would have to testify that the "Church Fathers" are authoritative only insofar as they are in harmony with the Word which, unfortunately, is not interpreted objectively and in unity throughout Christianity, as a whole. IOW, I have no confidence in the doctrine of apostolic succession.

No help at all, right? Stating the obvious and predictable...

 

[Rich R]

Barnabas is also called an apostle in the New Testament, but as far as NT referring to anyone else an apostle, Paul and Barnabas were the last. Church Fathers after the death of John made many mistakes.

Edit: Jesus is the one who appoints offices in the Church. He can speak to us today from the Holy Spirit and appoint these offices too. But the apostles received revelations that became scriptures. Appointed pastors and teachers merely rightly divide the Word of God written by the apostles that wrote canonized scripture. Personally, I believe that the Epistle of Barnabas is also scripture and was read in all the early churches as such. Seeing as Hebrews isn't signed by Paul, it is thought that Barnabas wrote Hebrews. I certainly got a lot out of it. And The Epistle of Barnabas was quoted in the Didache, The Teachings of the Twelve Apostles.

I'll go with anything anybody says so long as it does not contradict the scriptures.

For example, Athenasius says we must believe in the trinity to be saved. There is nowhere in the scriptures that says that. There are several places where the scriptures say how to be saved, but none come even close to saying we must believe the trinity.

How are we to know who God sent and who came on their own? I'm sure you know Paul warned the early church about false teachers. He even said everyone in Asia Minor turned against him. Surely we can't just believe anyone who says they are sent from God just because they say so. We must compare what others say against the scriptures to see if what they say is true or not, just as the Bereans did in Acts 17. They didn't even believe what Paul told them without searching the scriptures to verify.

 

[Rich R]

I think it might be a mistake to make too much of the word "apostle" apart from the original twelve.

After all, isn't the great Great Gospel Commission applicable to all believers? Does it not "send" us all? I'm sure the Catholic tradition would disagree, of course, and understandably so, I think, as a natural product of, as so many have, a lifetime of belief.

Very nice thread and OP, btw.

Yes, Good point. God did actually commission all of us to preach the Good News.

I guess the standard is whether or not what anybody says agrees with the scriptures or not. I suppose it would be wrong to summarily discount everything the Church Fathers said without verifying from the scriptures if they spoke the truth or not. After all, it'd be strange for any sincere child of God to say the wrong thing 100% of the time.

 

[Rich R]

Oh, by the way, as touching the main point of your thread, I would have to testify that the "Church Fathers" are authoritative only insofar as they are in harmony with the Word which, unfortunately, is not interpreted objectively and in unity throughout Christianity, as a whole. IOW, I have no confidence in the doctrine of apostolic succession.

No help at all, right? Stating the obvious and predictable...

I think it does help, even though it's obvious. That's what the Bereans did in Acts 17.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

The only “church fathers” I concern myself with are those in the Bible.

Everyone else are just men who must be tested by scripture alone.

 

[Enoch111]

Do any of the Church Fathers make the same claim?

The Church Fathers never claimed to be either apostles or prophets. They were pastors and teachers. They said many good things, but they also managed to include erroneous ideas into their writings. So one must evaluate everything in the light of Scripture.

 

[ScottA]

The twelve were only the first of many sent by Christ...and one of them was a devil.

Nonetheless, as many as receive the Holy Spirit are sent:

Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38​

 

[BarneyFife]

Yes, Good point. God did actually commission all of us to preach the Good News.

I guess the standard is whether or not what anybody says agrees with the scriptures or not. I suppose it would be wrong to summarily discount everything the Church Fathers said without verifying from the scriptures if they spoke the truth or not. After all, it'd be strange for any sincere child of God to say the wrong thing 100% of the time.

I think it does help, even though it's obvious. That's what the Bereans did in Acts 17.

Agree, 100%

Nice avatar picture. I picked some apples in your neck of the woods back in the 70s when I lived in San Diego.

 

[Waiting on him]

Yes, Good point. God did actually commission all of us to preach the Good News.

Please give scripture supporting this.

 

[Rich R]

Please give scripture supporting this.

Technically, I was wrong to say we are commissioned. I may have been a bit loose in choosing my words. Good catch!

However there is this:

Acts 8:3-4,

3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison.

4 Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
​

Rom 1:8,

First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for you all, that your faith is spoken of throughout the whole world.​

Phil 1:14,

And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.​

1 Pet 3:15,

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and [be] ready always to [give] an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
​

Ps 96:1-3,

1 O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth.

2 Sing unto the LORD, bless his name; shew forth his salvation from day to day.

3 Declare his glory among the heathen, his wonders among all people.
​

I'm pretty sure all of these were written to or about regular Christians. Let me know if you see something I'm missing. With verses please.

 

[Rich R]

Agree, 100%

Nice avatar picture. I picked some apples in your neck of the woods back in the 70s when I lived in San Diego.

Thanks. That's our back yard.

We still have plenty of apples up here.

 

[Pearl]

Do any of the Church Fathers make the same claim?

Who do you mean by the Church Fathers?