Is same sex attraction lust driven?

[Hidden In Him]

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

Correct, Carl. This passage teaches that homosexuality is lust driven.

The translation you are using here actually masks it a little bit. Something like the NKJV makes it a little more obvious:

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Verse 24 reads:

Διὸ παρέδωκεν αὐτοὺς ὁ θεὸς ἐν ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις τῶν καρδιῶν αὐτῶν εἰς ἀκαθαρσίαν, which translated literally "God gave them up to uncleanness." when this word is used in the New Testament, it is a reference to spiritual uncleanness, i.e. the presence of unclean spirits.

So, too, verse 27 states:

ὁμοίως τε καὶ οἱ ἄρσενες ἀφέντες τὴν φυσικὴν χρῆσιν τῆς θηλείας ἐξεκαύθησαν ἐν τῇ ὀρέξει αὐτῶν εἰς ἀλλήλους = "In like manner also... the females were inflamed in their lust towards one another." This is yet again another allusion to demonically-inspired, demonically-driven passion.

The argument that homosexuality is like any other sin rather downplays the thrust of this passage. There is a demonic compulsion involved. The spirits of sexual perversion are the most grotesque in Satan's kingdom, which is why there is a certain repulsiveness in what homosexuals give themselves to. Are they nice people? Yes, some of them are. But the demonic spirits they are giving themselves to are not; they are enemies of their souls, and they are enemies of mankind, and they need to be resisted and exposed, not excused and masked over because "after all, we all sin, and you shouldn't judge."

 

[amigo de christo]

The gay couples I know have genuine affection for one another, just like straight couples. They’re not predators. I just don’t want to know what goes on in their bedrooms.

They have been given over unto what is known as a reprobate mind . And though reprobates do have emotions and etc
ITs still proof of a reprobate mind . I honestly wonder how paul would seem to this generation .
OR CHRIST himself . If paul had a man removed from the church , delivered over unto satan ,
for sleeping with his fathers wife . What do you suppose He would have said to two men or two women
who though they proffessed to know Christ were married . He would have said , IF any who claims to be a brother or a sister
be a .....................
The problem is not that the door of the church is open to all , ITS that the CHURCH wont correct anything that enters its chambers .
IT wont preach sound doctrine . I see more and more in gay marriage , FEELING quite comfortable in many churches .
Yet why is that . How come they are not convicted , how come they feel fine in sin . IT cause the leaders wont correct .
Nor will they even preach biblical sound doctrine . WHERE is the proof of the SPIRIT in all of this .
Cause the SPIRIT always convicts me when i err . AND it also has me to correct those who do err in the church .
SO where is the SPIRIT behind all of this seeker friendly .
As i said above , the problem is not in allowing people to come in , ITS not doing anything to help them once they have come in .
And this is why its being even accepted more and more . Leaven leavens my friend . WE must stick
to the original pattern that was given us by CHRIST and those apostels .
LOVE corrects . I tell us all LOVE would correct , for GOD desires not the death of the wicked but rather they would repent .
We must return to the pages of the bible and get that pattern engrained deep witihin our hearts and our minds .
IT truly is the only pattern that works .

 

[amigo de christo]

Correct, Carl. This passage teaches that homosexuality is lust driven.

The translation you are using here actually masks it a little bit. Something like the NKJV makes it a little more obvious:

24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.

Verse 24 reads:

Διὸ παρέδωκεν αὐτοὺς ὁ θεὸς ἐν ταῖς ἐπιθυμίαις τῶν καρδιῶν αὐτῶν εἰς ἀκαθαρσίαν, which translated literally "God gave them up to uncleanness." when this word is used in the New Testament, it is a reference to spiritual uncleanness, i.e. the presence of unclean spirits.

So, too, verse 27 states:

ὁμοίως τε καὶ οἱ ἄρσενες ἀφέντες τὴν φυσικὴν χρῆσιν τῆς θηλείας ἐξεκαύθησαν ἐν τῇ ὀρέξει αὐτῶν εἰς ἀλλήλους = "In like manner also... the females were inflamed in their lust towards one another." This is yet again another allusion to demonically-inspired, demonically-driven passion.

The argument that homosexuality is like any other sin rather downplays the thrust of this passage. There is a demonic compulsion involved. The spirits of sexual perversion are the most grotesque in Satan's kingdom, which is why there is a certain repulsiveness in what homosexuals give themselves to. Are they nice people? Yes, some of them are. But the demonic spirits they are giving themselves to are not; they are enemies of their souls, and they are enemies of mankind, and they need to be resisted and exposed, not excused and masked over because "after all, we all sin, and you shouldn't judge."

Very good reminders my friend . very good .

 

[amigo de christo]

Well I don't know about mentally wrong! I know for sure spiritually wrong that you have been given over to a darkened mind. It is always spiritual first.

Lately I have put it to prayer that it is possible, that children at a young age NOW, can actually be homosexual! Given our culture has been handed over by god, it is possible that children at a young age are also turned over. It is a dreadful thought, but I wonder.

Yes indeed children can sin and be tempted .
This has always been the case . And now its worse than ever due to the parents and the educators are pumping massive confusion
into their little minds . ITS confusing them to the very core .
We must arise and raise those children in the way that they should go .
If i was a child and robbing banks , and i said HEY i was born this way , WOULD that be accepted .
SO why does the they are born this way card work so well on the churches .
WE all did much evil . But it didnt mean it was RIGHT . We must raise those children in the way that they should go .
And as you KNOW , in this day and age its next to impossible to enroll those kids in public schools . ITS become a literal
nightmare for those poor children . They get told wicked things that cause confusion to fill their minds .

 

[Bob Estey]

Hi there,

Looking at Romans 1, I am reading that the factor that births same sex attraction is lust.

Here is the passage...

Unbelief and Its Consequences
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures.

24 Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, so that their bodies would be dishonored among them. 25 For they exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error.

28 And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper, 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, 30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; 32 and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

OK so this issue is at the heart of the conversion therapy laws because the law forbids prayer and ministry aimed at seeing a change in sexual 'orientation' which Romans seems to say is lust driven.

If this is correct, then the claim that it is something born with, does not hold.

But the Bill hinges on this same sex 'orientation' being immutable and therefore a no-go area for ministry, prayer and deliverance.

I believe in a healthy hetro-sexual relationship, lust is not and shouldn't be the driver.

Comments most welcome.

It seems like a rather general statement, but I'd say same-sex attraction is lust-driven.

 

[Lambano]

They have been given over unto what is known as a reprobate mind .

The entire human race has been given over to reprobate minds. In some people it shows up in their sexuality. In others, it may show up as “being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful…” Paul makes it clear that “there is none righteous, no not one”. The symptoms are different, but the root cause is the same. We all have it.

 

[JohnPaul]

Personally the LGBTs that I personally know are kind, loving people. That is all I care to know about them; that is all that counts.

No that's not all that matters, read the Bible and see what it says about such matters, God did not create you as a man to be attracted to another man or change your sex.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The bible says "even sinners love those who love them."

The word for love in this verse is agape...

The bible also says that the rain falls on the just and the unjust.

This means that common grace includes love in relationships among unbelievers.

However for those who choose un-natural relationships against God's order, the driver becomes lust.

How could God's love motivate anyone to contravene God's order?

 

[Lambano]

How could God's love motivate anyone to contravene God's order?

No that's not all that matters, read the Bible and see what it says about such matters, God did not create you as a man to be attracted to another man or change your sex.

Indeed. Yet Romans 1:18 - 3:19 quite clearly (and famously) states that God has imprisoned ALL of us in reprobate minds, and that includes God's people. Our fallenness often manifests itself in our sexuality (both hetero- and homo). In others, fallenness manifests itself in some of the other sins listed in Romans 1:28-31.

And if we complain about it?

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” On the contrary, who are you, you foolish person, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? (Romans 9:19-20)

You know what I love about this passage? Paul set up a strawman argument that he intended to strike down. But the strawman turned into a golem and came to life and started to win the argument, so Paul had to pull out the old 12-gauge of God's sovereignty...

Indeed, why did God do this? Maybe Romans 11:32 is the key.

So, 1603 years after Augustine had Pelagius excommunicated for heresy, here we are, still debating the paradox of God's sovereignty versus Man's responsibility.

 

[TLHKAJ]

You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” On the contrary, who are you, you foolish person, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? (Romans 9:19-20)

Brother, those verses (in context) are talking about vessels ....Jews and Gentiles ...righteousness by the law vs righteousness by faith... not homosexuality.

 

[amigo de christo]

The entire human race has been given over to reprobate minds. In some people it shows up in their sexuality. In others, it may show up as “being filled with all unrighteousness, wickedness, greed, evil; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, malice; they are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful…” Paul makes it clear that “there is none righteous, no not one”. The symptoms are different, but the root cause is the same. We all have it.

evil is in the heart of man . True that is .
I do not know your age . But i am fifty now .
And i have a good memory . I tell us all its never been like this .
Even when i was a lad most folks hid certain sins . TODAY its as sodom , its no longer hid
ITS EMBRACED and celebrated in the streets . Laws have changed and now if one warns against certain , CERTAIN , CERTAIN
let that word sink in , CERTAIN PC SINS , they are hunted down and shunned as was the baker of cakes .
THIS WORLD has CHANGED . BIG TIME . BIG TIME . say it with me , BIG TIME .
OH its always been evil , But the evil was not always defended nor celebrated nor honored as it NOW IS .
TIME IS RUNNING OUT . TIME IS RUNNING OUT . AND again is say TIS RUNNING OUT. Be encouraged my friend .

 

[amigo de christo]

No that's not all that matters, read the Bible and see what it says about such matters, God did not create you as a man to be attracted to another man or change your sex.

That is why JIM B turned on me . I was always kind and most folks would have thought me loving and kind .
Even our churches today would have thought me loving and good and saved , YET I WAS A DEVIL .
The worst of the worst , LIKE ME , can be kind , can do good , can appear to have love , YET BE LOST .
JIM does not know this . HE is going under the all inclusive seeker friendly lie .
And i desire life for JIM no matter how he despises me . But this is the way it is my friend .
I was in boyscotts once . Buddists , atheist , muslims , and you name it can all be kind and appear loving and nice .
BUT IT DONT MAKE THEM SAVED . PRAISE GOD HE truly drew me to CHRIST and truly changed me .
I HAVE NO GOODNESS < NO RIGHTEOUSENSS , BUT HIM . Too many folks are getting decieved
by an appearance . As i said , not only can gays , but so too can many false religoins appear to have love
YET IT AINT LOVE my friend . ITS of the world , tis the same love i had once . ITS deceptive too .
FOR it has good works , it has hugs and smiles too , but its false .
I had all of that , YET was STILL LOST . LOST . LOVED MY SIN , JUSTIFIED MY SIN , YET i could still
say JESUS saves . AND I KNOW i was not saved , so what makes us think they or any other religoin is saved
JUST cause they do kind things . WORKS DONT SAVE . JESUS DOES . and IF WE TRULY KNOW HIM
THEN WE ARE CHANGED and no longer embrace SIN . FOLKS are lost these days .

 

[JohnPaul]

That is why JIM B turned on me . I was always kind and most folks would have thought me loving and kind .
Even our churches today would have thought me loving and good and saved , YET I WAS A DEVIL .
The worst of the worst , LIKE ME , can be kind , can do good , can appear to have love , YET BE LOST .
JIM does not know this . HE is going under the all inclusive seeker friendly lie .
And i desire life for JIM no matter how he despises me . But this is the way it is my friend .
I was in boyscotts once . Buddists , atheist , muslims , and you name it can all be kind and appear loving and nice .
BUT IT DONT MAKE THEM SAVED . PRAISE GOD HE truly drew me to CHRIST and truly changed me .
I HAVE NO GOODNESS < NO RIGHTEOUSENSS , BUT HIM . Too many folks are getting decieved
by an appearance . As i said , not only can gays , but so too can many false religoins appear to have love
YET IT AINT LOVE my friend . ITS of the world , tis the same love i had once . ITS deceptive too .
FOR it has good works , it has hugs and smiles too , but its false .
I had all of that , YET was STILL LOST . LOST . LOVED MY SIN , JUSTIFIED MY SIN , YET i could still
say JESUS saves . AND I KNOW i was not saved , so what makes us think they or any other religoin is saved
JUST cause they do kind things . WORKS DONT SAVE . JESUS DOES . and IF WE TRULY KNOW HIM
THEN WE ARE CHANGED and no longer embrace SIN . FOLKS are lost these days .

Brother you are loving and good and saved. Jim B. is not right.

 

[Lambano]

Brother, those verses (in context) are talking about vessels ....Jews and Gentiles ...righteousness by the law vs righteousness by faith... not homosexuality.

The context is God's decision to harden the hearts of His people against their Messiah, and to graft in those who were not His people into His people. And all the questions about God's own faithfulness that this brings up in Paul's mind.

The gay people I've talked to say that they always had these desires; it wasn't their choice. So, we have been imprisoned in these depraved minds, and it had to have come from the One who created us. "The doctrine of Man's depravity is the one Christian dogma that is empirically verifiable." (G.K. Chesterton) The principle is that God can do whatever He wants, and if we consider it unjust, how will we enforce our judgment against God? By withholding our worship?

My own response to the Apostle is that sentient clay can and does talk back to the Potter. It won't do any good - but it's a very, very human thing to do.

 

[amigo de christo]

The context is God's decision to harden the hearts of His people against their Messiah, and to graft in those who were not His people into His people. And all the questions about God's own faithfulness that this brings up in Paul's mind.

In any case, we have been imprisoned in these depraved minds, and it had to have come from the One who created us. "The doctrine of Man's depravity is the one Christian dogma that is empirically verifiable." (G.K. Chesterton) The principle is that God can do whatever He wants, and if we consider it unjust, how will we enforce our judgment against God? By withholding our worship?

My own response to the Apostle is that sentient clay can and does talk back to the Potter. It won't do any good - but it's a very, very human thing to do.

Yeah blame GOD . GOD did not put it into our minds to do evil . MAN disobeyed GOD , which is EVIL and from that sprang a nightmare
unto all . GOD made man upright , HE made lucifer good . BUT just cause HE gives free will
dont make GOD to blame .
EVIL was found in satan . NOT cause GOD created HIM that way but because by HIS own free will
He decided to do what was only GOOD for GOD to do .
Does that last line confuse you .
Let me explain it better .
IS IT SIN FOR GOD to DESIRE WORSHIP ,
IS IT SIN FOR GOD to desire to be over the creation .
NO .
BUT IT IS SIN for the created to dare think such a thing .
SIN was found in satan , when HE desired to be as GOD .
YES GOD gave us free will and HE created us to have desire . ONLY OUR DESIRE SHOULD HAVE BEEN UNTO HE ALONE .
NOT FOR US . FOR HIM . I do praise GOD for JESUS . cause in us is no good and all have sinned .
BUT IN CHRIST WE CAN NOW WORSHIP GOD THE WAY HE DESIRES US TOO .
Repeat after me , ITS NOT SIN FOR GOD TO DESIRE LORDSHIP , WORSHIP , BUT IT IS FOR MANKIND TO DO SUCH A THING .
GOD IS GOD AND IS WORTHY OF ALL WORSHIP . And that is what lambs do , WE WORSHIP GOD and no longer worship self .

 

[Lambano]

Yeah blame GOD . GOD did not put it into our minds to do evil .

Mi Amigo, Romans contradicts you. Fallen Man is NOT good.

 

[amigo de christo]

Brother you are loving and good and saved. Jim B. is not right.

With whatever time i have left , LET US POINT TO CHRIST TO GOD . and expose all evil by the righteous light of Christ .
We are in a massive war for the souls of men . And i make no apologies for correction . FOR LOVE CORRECTS .
It exposes the evil and desires the wicked to repent and not to perish .
Folks have no idea what LOVE IS anymore . THEY have not been transformed . THEY Sit under men who teach lies .
WE must point to CHRIST and continue to do so while there STILL IS TIME TO DO SO .

 

[amigo de christo]

Mi Amigo, Romans contradicts you. Fallen Man is NOT good.

I never said FALLEN MAN IS GOOD . Did you even read what i wrote .

 

[Lambano]

I never said FALLEN MAN IS GOOD . Did you even read what i wrote .

Do you understand why Fallen Man CANNOT do good?

 

[amigo de christo]

IF i told this generation is robbing banks and murder good , most would say no .
YET if i dare to expose same sex as evil they call me evil .
Yall , we need a serious wake up call and fast .