Do Men Have Authority Over Women?

[Michiah-Imla]

I have read most of the posts in this thread, and the venom (figuratively speaking) coming out of people is just astounding

Nothing worse than these:

“Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?” (Matthew 23:33) - Jesus.

“O full of all subtilty and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord?” (Acts 13:10) - Paul

 

[VictoryinJesus]

And I am Christian! Your veiled accusations that I am not are not going to go unnoticed by me.

Makes me think of
2 Corinthians 10:7-8 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's. [8] For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:

Aside from all the debating and arguing, I’ve seen too many marriages and the outcome of the mindset presented mostly in this thread. In fact, what you presented as an alternative I’ve rarely seen if ever. Maybe it is my limited perspective but I’ve witnessed in daily life men talking about their wives as if they are crap, and women talking about their husbands in the same way. No speaking or sharing anything but a total disregard for each other while calling it a marriage. I’ve seen hatred, bitterness, disconnection, loneliness, no conversations or agreement. I’m not saying this is all marriages but only what I’ve seen from my limited perspective of growing up. growing up surrounded by a Baptist mindset of men as the authority and women the weaker vessel. I’ve been to funerals and listened to the pastor speak on the relationship and then having in my head also what I seen of the relationship of marriage behind closed doors. I’m left always wondering “is this what God intended marriage to be?” Two people that say they are in a union while acting separate and single..the outcome resentment and coldness. We call certain relationships mockeries…like two men marrying by deflection. What is mockery if not taking something claimed to be such an honorable thing where the word says a woman is the glory of man …to then slice and cut it down to some snide backroom joke when no one is watching? Of course this is all opinion but …I’m thankful for your sharing another perspective. As negative as I can be though, stuck in a mindset, I’m wondering how long have you two have been married? And also I’m wondering what your wife would say of the marriage if asked because I’ve seen, like here, men deceived into thinking a marriage is one way and it’s the other. for example “oh my wife is cared for. I’m a leader that doesn’t impose my will but I put others needs above my own” to …that being a fantasy they are totally convinced of. And what do we blame the increase in divorce on? Reality is actions speak louder than words…I think is what I’m getting at.

 

[Naomanos]

As negative as I can be though, stuck in a mindset, I’m wondering how long have you two have been married? And also I’m wondering what your wife would say of the marriage if asked because I’ve seen, like here, men deceived into thinking a marriage is one way and it’s the other. for example “oh my wife is cared for. I’m a leader that doesn’t impose my will but I put others needs above my own” to …that being a fantasy they are totally convinced of.

We were married for six years and together for seven.

I was no saint in the marriage. As I said, we argued constantly. In the beginning, it was me picking the fights, but then in the end it was mostly her as I no longer wanted to fight. The thing is, we were toxic to each other. There are just some relationships that should never be. I can honestly and confidently say that was us. The one thing that I didn't mention and when I read what I had written to my girlfriend she said I should be sure to mention is that my ex-wife also had put her hands on me on a few occasions. She slapped me once, punched me another time, and had her hands around my throat a third time. I can also honestly say that I never laid a hand on her. We should have never been married, but were coerced and manipulated into the marriage by her old pastor. God did not join us together, man did and that was very evident.

My fiance and I have a relationship that is a complete 180 from my marriage. This is the kind of relationship that is good and God-honoring. We rarely if ever argue over anything. We have the occasional disagreement, but mostly we have the same ideals, wants, and needs. So we are generally on the same page. When we do argue, it doesn't last long and we actually will talk about it and we haven't repeated those same arguments. We learn from each other and grow. We have learned from our past mistakes in other relationships and our previous marriage and carried that learning into this relationship.

If you were to talk to my fiance, she would absolutely tell you that “oh my wife is cared for. I’m a leader that doesn’t impose my will but I put others needs above my own” to …that being a fantasy they are totally convinced of. is not my way of doing things or being. As I said so many times in this thread, I don't want, need, or crave power or authority. It just isn't who I am.

 

[Lambano]

Brother @Naomanos, you just keep being who you are, who God called you to be.

 

[reformed1689]

This is because you are not reading scriptures as frequently and completely as you should:

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17)

And this is where the KJV fails you sir. The Greek word, artios, means complete, capable, proficient, it does not mean without blemish, cannot be improved. But what is interesting, if you actually lookup the word perfect in an English dictionary, you realize that makes sense:


perfect

■ adjective /ˈpəːfɪkt/
1 having all the required elements, qualities, or characteristics.


Catherine Soanes and Angus Stevenson, eds., Concise Oxford English Dictionary (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2004).

Modern translations, such as the ESV who say complete, etc, do a better job of conveying this verse.

 

[reformed1689]

So it’s not the Bible?

This is why “Christians” are so divided.

They come up with their own rules.

Who said anything about coming up with their own rules. Do you know what a statement of faith is? It is not sufficient to say "I believe the Bible." Do you know why that is not sufficient? Great, you believe the Bible, WHAT do you believe about the Bible?

 

[reformed1689]

Brother @Naomanos, you just keep being who you are, who God called you to be.

God calls us to follow Scripture. You should suggest that. Nobody should just "keep being who you are" because nobody on this earth is perfect. We should constantly strive to be better.

 

[reformed1689]

I would say they do have authority over them but like Jesus they should not Lord it over them. They should have a servant attitude and consider her needs above his in a marriage. Also this same attitude should be in the church as well. Its the servant /leader model Jesus displayed for us.

This is what I have been arguing from the start. Some people have gone off the deep end in this thread.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Modern translations, such as the ESV who say complete, etc, do a better job of conveying this verse.

Modern Bibles accomplish their spirits goal…

To prevent man from striving to achieve perfection.

As you were…

 

[Lambano]

God calls us to follow Scripture. You should suggest that. Nobody should just "keep being who you are" because nobody on this earth is perfect. We should constantly strive to be better.

I know there will be times when brother @Naomanos will have to lead his wife. There will be times when he has to submit to her. But we all have our individual gifts and talents; what's the point of calling a man to be a leader when he is not gifted for that? We don't all fit into these cookie-cutter molds. What is that to you?

 

[TLHKAJ]

The only earthly man who is to be head of me as a woman, is MY HUSBAND. Every man is NOT the head of every woman.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

It is not sufficient to say "I believe the Bible.

I’m sure the Pharisees had the same mindset…

 

[ChristisGod]

This is what I have been arguing from the start. Some people have gone off the deep end in this thread.

Yes it usually does brother.

 

[TLHKAJ]

This topic is older than the hills. All it accomplishes is strife, and most men taking scripture out of context. Paul attended house churches which were led by women. And there are Biblical examples of prophetesses. A prophet or prophetess cannot prophesy without speaking in a church. You need to balance ALL of scripture, not just pick some out that suit your preference. Paul said women should keep silence for a reason. There was a particular area where those particular converts had formerly worshiped the goddess Dianna. They had temple prostitutes and women dominated. When they came to Christ, they still carried some of those tendencies. Paul was bringing order, where women were used to running religious meetings in an inordinate way.

Lol .... I'm done. I'll keep doing what God leads regardless of if a man likes it or not. I answer to Christ and His ENTIRE WORD.

 

[ChristisGod]

1 Tim 2:11-15
11 A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. 12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve. 14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. 15 But women will be preserved through the bearing of children if they continue in faith and love and sanctity with self-restraint.


1 Corinthians 14:34
women are to be silent in the churches. They are not permitted to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says.


1 Corinthians 14:35
If they wish to inquire about something, they are to ask their own husbands at home; for it is dishonorable for a woman to speak in the church.

Titus 2:5
to be self-controlled, pure, managers of their households, kind, and subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be discredited.

1 Timothy 2:11
A woman must learn in quietness and full submissiveness.

1 Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet.

1 Peter 3:1
Wives, in the same way, submit yourselves to your husbands, so that even if they refuse to believe the word, they will be won over without words by the behavior of their wives

 

[reformed1689]

Modern Bibles accomplish their spirits goal…

To prevent man from striving to achieve perfection.

As you were…

That completely ignored everything I wrote.

 

[reformed1689]

This topic is older than the hills. All it accomplishes is strife, and most men taking scripture out of context. Paul attended house churches which were led by women. And there are Biblical examples of prophetesses. A prophet or prophetess cannot prophesy without speaking in a church. You need to balance ALL of scripture, not just pick some out that suit your preference. Paul said women should keep silence for a reason. There was a particular area where those particular converts had formerly worshiped the goddess Dianna. They had temple prostitutes and women dominated. When they came to Christ, they still carried some of those tendencies. Paul was bringing order, where women were used to running religious meetings in an inordinate way.

Lol .... I'm done. I'll keep doing what God leads regardless of if a man likes it or not. I answer to Christ and His ENTIRE WORD.

You make a lot of claims, then give no biblical backing.

 

[reformed1689]

Every man is NOT the head of every woman.

And who here has argued that?

 

[JunChosen]

1 Timothy 2:12
I do not permit a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man; she is to remain quiet

Does the above Scripture also apply to Matthew 28:19-20?

To God Be The Glory

 

[JunChosen]

Aside from all the debating and arguing, I’ve seen too many marriages and the outcome of the mindset presented mostly in this thread. In fact, what you presented as an alternative I’ve rarely seen if ever. Maybe it is my limited perspective but I’ve witnessed in daily life men talking about their wives as if they are crap, and women talking about their husbands in the same way. No speaking or sharing anything but a total disregard for each other while calling it a marriage. I’ve seen hatred, bitterness, disconnection, loneliness, no conversations or agreement. I’m not saying this is all marriages but only what I’ve seen from my limited perspective of growing up. growing up surrounded by a Baptist mindset of men as the authority and women the weaker vessel. I’ve been to funerals and listened to the pastor speak on the relationship and then having in my head also what I seen of the relationship of marriage behind closed doors. I’m left always wondering “is this what God intended marriage to be?” Two people that say they are in a union while acting separate and single..the outcome resentment and coldness. We call certain relationships mockeries…like two men marrying by deflection. What is mockery if not taking something claimed to be such an honorable thing where the word says a woman is the glory of man …to then slice and cut it down to some snide backroom joke when no one is watching? Of course this is all opinion but …

What you have described above is man's sinfulness.

If man and wife would only realize that the Holy Matrimony is sacred to God there will never be divorces. Yes, the union between man and woman has spiritual significance. The man is to love his bride and in return, she submits to her husband, just as God loves His bride and in return she obeys God in all things.

To God Be The Glory