It’s so painful to have to leave you guys to go work. I hope to have another long stretch of time to talk with you all this coming Tuesday again. Practice trust. It’s the way to all you desire and it’s the way to His will. Practice trust!
Let's discuss..cessation after death?
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Lambano, not what I have chosen, but what God have chosen and still waiting as to which direction I should go.
Blessings brother.
J.
It’s okay Johann. When you need to bite me I will just put my hand back out again. It doesn’t hurt me and it’s fine. And I know you more than you think.
...and holiness without which no man shall see God.
May our Lord Christ Jesus and the Holy Spirit continue to bless you in all spheres of your life, you and family.
J.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Ah. I suspected as much.
I hope you'll forgive me if I have trouble relating to your calling. It is very different from mine, though my own is still unfolding.
Blessings back to you also, my brother.
You cannot practice and learn holiness. The scriptures are for training in righteousness. We learn and grow in righteousness, the righteousness that comes to us by trust. We do not grow more and more holy. There is no more or less holy. There is either holy or not holy. Will you bite me again or say I think I know it all?
What gives you the impression that I was referring to you as a "know it all" or that I am "biting" you...this is going to to bring the "brothers" again with their snide remarks.
J.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
Okay, I did not send my completed post #550 that I intended - missed the last page. So it appeared that I was going to offer a bunce of scriptures to show that spiritual death in Matthew 25:46 is not corrective punishment/torment, but destruction. So here are the rest of the scriptures:
Let’s examine some popular verses that teach us about death that should be examined alongside Matthew 25:46 to determine what kind of punishment this is:
2 Thessalonian 1:9 “Who shall be punished with everlasting (age-lasting) destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power.”
>continued from post #550 - it was too much information.
Matthew 7:13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it.”
Matthew 10:28 ‘And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in Hell.” NKJV Here we see physical death compared to spiritual death – destruction of both soul and body. This is a key verse that explains exactly what God is going to do. Destroy both soul and body. Life, existence will cease!
Philippians 3:18-19 “For may walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: whose end is destruction …” The end of their existence, destruction.
John 3:36 “He who believes in the Son has everlasting (eternal) life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
Mark 2:29 “ But whoever may speak evil in regard to the Holy Spirit hath not forgiveness – to the age, but is in danger of the age-during judgment. “ YLT
We all know what destroy means: to utterly ruined, demolish, to put an end to. And when we add fire to that equation, we know what that means. I have shown the variations of meanings of the word aionios as it is applied to the physical realm and then to the spiritual. Age-lasting is not eternal!
Scripture supports scripture. You can't just hang on one to interpret it - you know that. Matthew 25:46 must harmonize with all these verses. The final judgment of death is the end of an individual, physically and spiritually.
"And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28
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Its okay. Just ignore snide remarks. We’ve all seen angry screeching like someone pounded nails into a mans hands by snide and snippy remarks. That kind of touchiness is one of the things He heals us of and then we glide through it unmoved either way. There’s great freedom in seeing yourself clearly enough to realize you have no reputation to protect. Yes, you have bitten me a few times. You approach in some openness and hope then you bite and retreat because it’s hard for you to trust me and that I don’t want to harm you.
I am being looked at with consternation and foot tapping. Gotta go. Love each other.
I sense you are not here to harm but to encourage and I admire you for that.
J.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Certainly not in the sense that I would say they should be involuntarily removed from membership. But then, I don't make those decisions, anyway.
But there's no doubt in my mind that some of our members do not emulate Christ.
(In varying degrees, of course, and religionists are everywhere. I don't have to tell you that, I'm sure. We can't expect to be free from them here, and sometimes the nature of interaction in a virtually anonymous community lends itself well to the religionist's cause.)
And we should be doing that everywhere we go.
And I don't do that all of the time.
I mean that sometimes I have to step back and ask myself (and God) "Are you doing more good than harm here or vice versa?"
That's why I say that sometimes I don't know if I belong here.
BarneyFife
Well-Known Member
Just my perception but I believe a lot of what you're talking about is simply due to fog from different language and culture.
Just my perception but I believe a lot of what you're talking about is simply due to fog from different language and culture.
I wondered about that.
Brakelite
Well-Known Member
You know what phrase amazes me every time I hear it? When someone says: scripture is very clear on this matter. I always think, well then, which is it? Always answer a fool according to his folly or never answer a fool according to his folly? The next thing I think is, the man who thinks he knows something does not yet know as he ought to.
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.
Do you remember when you first devoured His words and couldn’t stop, where your confusions were? My first big confusion was over why in one place it would suggest He removes the wicked and in another that He removes the righteous. It was such a puzzlement to me! Then when I read, now I will destroy the righteous along with the wicked, I think my head almost exploded…
It is the glory of God to conceal a matter; to search out a matter is the glory of kings.
Do you remember when you first devoured His words and couldn’t stop, where your confusions were? My first big confusion was over why in one place it would suggest He removes the wicked and in another that He removes the righteous. It was such a puzzlement to me! Then when I read, now I will destroy the righteous along with the wicked, I think my head almost exploded…
quietthinker
Well-Known Member
For me, understanding that the Prophets in many cases spoke from their own cultural perceptions which were skewed. So I ask myself, what can I rely on? ...the answer came from what transpired on the mount of transfiguration.
Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus in conversation. Both these guys were resurrected and were representative of the Law and the Prophets respectively; their words were the diet the disciples gre up and were familiar with yet what was important for the listening disciples and for us to know is what the voice out of the cloud said ie, this is my Son, listen to him.
I interpret that as meaning, what Jesus says trumps what the Law and the Prophets say. Jesus has the final word.
That has halted a lot of the mixed messages you mentioned @stunnedbygrace.
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