Why do Catholics…

[Marymog]

It is strange, @Marymog does not SEE...
* you promoting FREEWILL to choose.
* she is promoting MUST follow the succession of preachers.

Good morning Taken,

So it appears you don't agree with "the succession of preachers" teaching that Scripture talks about? What Christianity has long called Apostolic Succession. Soooo riddle me this: Jesus chose 12 preachers and taught them the Truth. Those 12 preachers (minus Judas with Mathias replacing him) and preacher Paul then taught other preachers the Truth. I think it is safe to presume that those preachers (men who were students of the Apostles) then taught the Truth to other preachers. You know, like Scripture says in 2 Timothy 2:2??

Soooooo when did that "succession of preachers" teaching the Truth end? Maybe @Backlit and @amadeus can help you out since they "like" your lone wolf Christian mentality that teaches the teaching of the Truth ended at some point in our Christian history.

Curious Mary

IKTIAWOMTAYWGALA

 

[theefaith]

The kingdom was taken from Israel and given to the church


Prophecy of the new covenant church fulfilled in the apostolic union with Christ!

Matt 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, (Israel) and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

 

[Marymog]

Yes it does, and it must. We are free moral agents with individual relationships with our Lord. He speaks to us as individuals... Relates to us as individuals... And we will stand before Him in the judgement as individuals taking individual responsibility for our decisions and actions. The church... The Pope... Your local parish priest will have a difficult enough time standing for theory own cause and will not be holding your hand saying, I stuffed up Lord is not her fault, blame me.

Yup, each individual Christian gets to decide what the Truth is once they confirm that they have been given that Truth by the Holy Spirit. After all, that is what Scripture teaches

 

[Marymog]

All? LOL

Ex 20:
[4] Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Lev.26
[1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
Deut.4
[16] Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,
[23] Take heed unto yourselves, lest ye forget the covenant of the LORD your God, which he made with you, and make you a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, which the LORD thy God hath forbidden thee.
[25] When thou shalt beget children, and children's children, and ye shall have remained long in the land, and shall corrupt yourselves, and make a graven image, or the likeness of any thing, and shall do evil in the sight of the LORD thy God, to provoke him to anger:
Deut.5
[8] Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth:



Whoops Mary, another blunder...
Gods Word is clear, repeated, and without question.

And not surprising....you even attempt to Speak for God, what He did not say.

Silly boy! You do know what a graven image is? Don't you? If you did know you wouldn't continue your non-sensical ramblings.

Go in peace my friend....Mary

 

[Marymog]

I’ve observed your path, full of wild claims, conjectures and attributing those claims to Jesus....same thing you do to people.

Your ramblings make absolutely no sense Taken...

We preach Christ crucified. You don't. You don't adhere to Scripture. We do.

Not sure how that is a 'wild claim' or conjectures but none the less....Go in peace....Mary

 

[Marymog]

It is strange, @Marymog does not SEE...
* you promoting FREEWILL to choose.
* she is promoting MUST follow the succession of preachers.

She calls you prideful, for what you promote, as the ONLY way.
She excuses herself from “prideful” for what she promotes, the ONLY way.

The Fact IS....succession of preachers was First Established...BY God,
Appointing Arron...then succession to Arron’s sons.
Men failed.

The Fact IS...succession of preachers was Established....BY God, Appointing KING SAUL, that the people begged for a human king, (in the likeness as Gentiles appointments)
Men failed.

The Fact IS...the TWELVE TRIBES were Established....Specific LANDS, Specific Roaming Preachers to the LANDS, out of the same LEVI clan.
Men failed.

The Fact IS...a long silence from God...allowing “failed men”, to suffer the consequences of their “FREEWILL choice” failures.

The Fact IS....Jesus arrives....selecting men Freely choosing to Follow Him, Hear, Learn, Freely choosing to REMAIN WITH or DEFLECT FROM Him.
* Jesus’ MISSION...seek the lost JEWS.
* Jesus’ Disciples, to Apostles MISSION...continue seeking the lost JEWS...then other Tribesmen.

**** Here a conundrum...
The Apostles...preaching, some Gentiles lending an ear...”AND”...
The Apostles...(side-stepping JEWS as prominent CHURCH Leaders, to APPOINTING Gentiles as prominent CHURCH Leaders)...
Another fail of men.

”WHILE”...
*****The Lord IS Preparing Saul/Paul in the spirit, in Arabia...FOR the Lords MISSION, to bring in the FOLD of the Gentiles...
(Paul the most efficient choice, to travel, Lands occupied by BOTH, Gentiles AND Jews....He being, excellently proficient IN Jewish Law, Religion, and Jesus, and Paul having, duel heritage).

BIG PICTURE...has ALWAYS BEEN according to Gods established DIVISIONS, of men WITH Him, to BE the SERVANTS OF GOD, as “the whole world’s TEACHERS”...
Hebrews, Tribes, Jews, Jesus, Apostles 12 appointed as Gods Succession of His Divided and Apostle 1 appointed to Freely willing Gentiles desiring “ to be included WITH Gods People Divided UNTO God.

What Protestant man taught you this? Or are you self taught?

 

[amadeus]

Good morning Taken,

So it appears you don't agree with "the succession of preachers" teaching that Scripture talks about? What Christianity has long called Apostolic Succession. Soooo riddle me this: Jesus chose 12 preachers and taught them the Truth. Those 12 preachers (minus Judas with Mathias replacing him) and preacher Paul then taught other preachers the Truth. I think it is safe to presume that those preachers (men who were students of the Apostles) then taught the Truth to other preachers. You know, like Scripture says in 2 Timothy 2:2??

Soooooo when did that "succession of preachers" teaching the Truth end? Maybe @Backlit and @amadeus can help you out since they "like" your lone wolf Christian mentality that teaches the teaching of the Truth ended at some point in our Christian history.

Curious Mary

IKTIAWOMTAYWGALA

Look at these verses with particular attention to the parts I have underlined:

"One generation shall praise thy works to another, and shall declare thy mighty acts." Psalms 145:4

"The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day: the father to the children shall make known thy truth" Isaiah 38:19

"I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old: Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. We will not hide them from their children, showing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done." Psalm 78:2-4

"Only take heed to thyself, and keep thy soul diligently, lest thou forget the things which thine eyes have seen, and lest they depart from thy heart all the days of thy life: but teach them thy sons, and thy sons' sons;" Deut 4:9

We have heard with our ears, O God, our fathers have told us, what work thou didst in their days, in the times of old." Psalm 44:1

I believe that God has always had a father available to tell a son who would listen. Remember Elijah's declaration!

"And he said, I have been very jealous for the LORD God of hosts: for the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away." I Kings 19:10

And remember God's response!

"Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him." I Kings 19:18

Just as God has preserved His Word for all of us, even so I also believe that He always had someone who had not bowed "unto Baal"

This continuous existence of some believers is known by some as an unbroken "crimson [scarlet?] thread" of God's Truth within people and I certainly believe it as well...

"Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever." Psalm 119:160

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So, Ronald. Your men have taught you that all you have to do is have "faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus" and that faith saves you? Hmmmm....I wonder if Scripture agrees with your Protestant teachers:

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. Soooo if I don't have works, faith is dead!! Which means I MUST have works!

our ad-hominem aside we are saved apart from works, but saving faith will work!

Eph2:8-9 :
Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now if you wish to talk about teh transformation in a saved life- that is where works come in!.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost....... The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. Soooo I should come to repentance so I won't perish and if I don't repent I won't receive the Holy Spirit! Isn't repentance a sacrament?

No repentance is a change of mind! Only Romanism has a phobic need to call things sacraments.

Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. hmmm..sounds familiar! Water and Spirit? Where have I heard that before??? Oh, yeah. When I got baptized with water I received the gift of the Holy Spirit! Sooo I must be born of water and Spirit to be saved!

Read my 50 posts to theefaith to see water birth is not baptism.

Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;. Soooo I must also have the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost AND His mercy to be saved! I wonder if "washing of regeneration" means the water baptism I mentioned earlier?

Not even close!

Ephesians 5:26
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. Isn't anointing the sick with oil a sacrament Ronald? And Scripture tells us to fulfil that Sacrament Ronald....

Again romanism with sacraments. No it is a function that elders do!

Whoever confesses Me before men, him the Son of Man also will confess before the angels of God.....that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Sooooo looks like I have to confess before men with my mouth to be saved!!

Yes one time to be saved! that verb is singular! That comes from the work of faith and grace!

“This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.” 25 In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.” Oh no Ronald, is this another sacrament that YOU have been taught that is not necessary for salvation!!! YOU don't have to do what he told you to do to be saved?

Now if you only knew what ajesus was doing in that Passover Seder and which particular piece of bread and which particular cup of wine. You would understand He was explaining symbols and not transubstantiation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Your Protestant men have only taught you part of Scripture. You should read all of it on your own. See post #539

Does reading all the OT through at least 8 times and parts of it over 200 times, and all the new Testament at least 200 times as well as listening to both many times count???????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[theefaith]

Yes it does, and it must. We are free moral agents with individual relationships with our Lord. He speaks to us as individuals... Relates to us as individuals... And we will stand before Him in the judgement as individuals taking individual responsibility for our decisions and actions. The church... The Pope... Your local parish priest will have a difficult enough time standing for theory own cause and will not be holding your hand saying, I stuffed up Lord is not her fault, blame me.

what is a free moral agent?

what individual covenant do you have?

 

[Marymog]

Does reading all the OT through at least 8 times and parts of it over 200 times, and all the new Testament at least 200 times as well as listening to both many times count???????????????????????????????????????????????

Not when you still get it wrong....

 

[Marymog]

our ad-hominem aside we are saved apart from works, but saving faith will work!

Eph2:8-9 :
Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now if you wish to talk about teh transformation in a saved life- that is where works come in!.

Got it. All I have to do is have faith and I am saved. Do nothing else. Don't preach His word. Don't get baptized. Don't feed the hungry. Heck, I don't even have to be kind to anyone; just as long as I am not mean. If I find an injured person alongside the road I just look at them and say "It stinks to be you but I'm not a doctor so I can't help you and you would probably sue me if I did something wrong" and walk away. As long as I have my faith I am saved. Even though I am "created in Christ Jesus to do good works" (vs10), I don't have to do those works because I live by vs 8 and 9. I skip vs10! I have faith that God will give me by his grace if I don't do the works. Also, throw out the rest of Scripture on what it says I have to do to be saved. Just live and die by Ephesians 2:8-9 and I am good to go....

Oh goodness! What twisted things your men have taught you that have tickled your ears. But, Scripture said it would happen.

How about this scenario Ronald: A man goes to a church for bible study at the request of his friend. He's never pursued or been interested in the teachings of Christ. He then hears The Word and decides he is going to live by the teachings of Christ. He now has faith that Jesus is his Lord and Saviour. He wants to get baptized THAT DAY and THAT DAY signs up to work in the food kitchen sponsored by the church that serves the homeless in the community. They tell him baptisms are done on certain days (not that day) so they schedule a baptism a couple weeks out. They welcome him into the church and say that they will see him at the food kitchen in a few days. He's driving home. Crashes his car. Sadly, he dies. Is he saved? I would say, YES, he is saved by faith. He didn't have the opportunity to do the works.

OR he doesn't die in a car accident. Goes to work the food kitchen once, skips baptism because he is to busy, stops going to church after 6 months even though his attendance was sporadic..... but he is still a nice person and still believes Jesus is the Son of God and Saviour! Two years later he dies. He had the faith, but he didn't do the works.... Is he saved?

I look forward to your response....Mary

 

[Marymog]

Only Romanism has a phobic need to call things sacraments.

Again romanism with sacraments. No it is a function that elders do!.

Got it. Only the Catholic Church....of which you derogatorily call Romanism....is the only Christian institution that calls these things sacraments.

Well, except for all the Orthodox churches and the multiple Protestant denominations that call them sacrements....other than that....ONLY the Catholic Church has a phobic need to call things sacraments.

Keeping it real with facts instead of opinions....Mary

 

[Taken]

What a mighty God we serve my friend!

Yes Sir, don’t we know it. Amen!

Where He leads that is where we should always be following. But... men do so often have and insist on having their ways!

The most puzzling...is the ones saying, follow the successors (Gentiles ways primarily, in big picture) are often the same, against “Bible’ only, (the very source established for our Benefit!). Creative ploy, and
Generational advance to keep going. Not sure how or why you got out, but Praise God, Have known others that got out, were so damaged, became anti-religion.

 

[Taken]

Good morning Taken,

So it appears you don't agree with "the succession of preachers" teaching that Scripture talks about? What Christianity has long called Apostolic Succession. Soooo riddle me this: Jesus chose 12 preachers and taught them the Truth. Those 12 preachers (minus Judas with Mathias replacing him) and preacher Paul then taught other preachers the Truth. I think it is safe to presume that those preachers (men who were students of the Apostles) then taught the Truth to other preachers. You know, like Scripture says in 2 Timothy 2:2??

Soooooo when did that "succession of preachers" teaching the Truth end? Maybe @Backlit and @amadeus can help you out since they "like" your lone wolf Christian mentality that teaches the teaching of the Truth ended at some point in our Christian history.

Curious Mary

I absolutely agree succession continued....but not as was intended.
Jesus sought Jews, Tribes...Jewish Apostles appointed to continue...NOT to go among the Gentiles.......AND.....Decades after Apostle John died, the entire church was Gentiles....new doctrines, new traditions, blah, blah, blah. AND the Jews....bowed out.

You favor Gentile Secession...that was supposed to be JEWISH succession.....I favor who Jesus appointed for the Gentiles.

And no, no one has said or remotely implied teaching Christ ended...
Clearly some big churches have swayed off course from Jesus’ Doctrine.

@amadeus hardly a lone wolf, rather leaps and bounds above your knowledge and understanding and kind to you despite your name calling toward him.

 

[theefaith]

Yes Sir, don’t we know it. Amen!



The most puzzling...is the ones saying, follow the successors (Gentiles ways primarily, in big picture) are often the same, against “Bible’ only, (the very source established for our Benefit!). Creative ploy, and
Generational advance to keep going. Not sure how or why you got out, but Praise God, Have known others that got out, were so damaged, became anti-religion.

the “Bible alone” is a false doctrine, only the original manuscripts were inspired word of God! They don’t exist so there can be no doctrine of the “Bible alone “!

 

[Taken]

Silly boy! You do know what a graven image is? Don't you? If you did know you wouldn't continue your non-sensical ramblings.

Go in peace my friend....Mary

Was idol, graven image, standing image, stone, bow down unto it, male, female, any figure.....too vague, because it didn’t include plaster, porcelain, gold, steel, blah, blah, blah?

Silly? Pot calling kettle black.

Lev.26
[1] Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.
Deut.4
[16] Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

 

[Taken]

Your ramblings make absolutely no sense Taken...

Not supposed to make sense to you. Spiritual understanding is from the Spirit, not the minds logical figuring.

We preach Christ crucified. You don't. You don't adhere to Scripture. We do.

What a Burger KING Whopper LIE.
You know that crown is just cardboard? Eh?

 

[Taken]

What Protestant man taught you this? Or are you self taught?

Seriously Mary, you have repeatedly asked and been answered....
Jesus the SOURCE and HIS appointed....have always been my teachers....