Did Jesus die on Friday?

[Wrangler]

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No less than eleven passages in the New Testament attest that Jesus'
crucified dead body was restored to life during the third day rather than
after the third day was completely over and done with.

» Matt 16:21
» Matt 20:17-19
» Matt 17:22-23
» Mark 9:31
» Luke 9:22
» Luke 18:31-33
» Luke 24:1-8
» Luke 24:12-21
» Luke 24:41-46
» Acts 10:39-41
» 1Cor 15:4
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Except the verses you cite do not quite support what you claim.

Matthew 16:21
The Voice

21 Then Jesus began to tell the disciples about what would happen to Him. He saidHe would have to go to Jerusalem. There the elders, chief priests, and scribes would meet Him; He would suffer at their hands; and He would be killed. But three days later, He would be raised to new life.

 

[Webers_Home]

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Matthew 16:21

Hover your mouse pointer over the reference above and compare the
language and grammar of the ASV text that appears with the language and
grammar of the VOICE's text below.

21 Then Jesus began to tell the disciples about what would happen to Him.
He said He would have to go to Jerusalem. There the elders, chief priests,
and scribes would meet Him; He would suffer at their hands; and He would
be killed. But three days later, He would be raised to new life.

The words "new life" are a paraphrase rather than a translation of the Greek
word egertheénai, which has to do with restoring someone's life rather than
improving their quality of life, viz: resurrections per the gospels returned the
dead to consciousness as if rousing them from sleep; for example Lazarus'
awakening at John 11:11.
_

 

[Wrangler]

The words "new life" are a paraphrase rather than a translation of the Greek
word egertheénai, which has to do with restoring someone's life rather than
improving their quality of life

That's really irrelevant to the point of AFTER or during 3 days.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So you know when Babylon existed? I agree that the Talmud is silly in many ways. Extremely silly. However, the ruling elite in the Pharisees used it extensively. The traditions that Jesus corrected during his advent came from the Talmud. Thus, you have information from the Talmud referenced in the NT. There is NO criticism found in the NT for the referenced from the Talmud of a "High Sabbath".

You're being ridiculous.

Actually it was information from the Gomera and Tanakh. The Babylonian Talmud did not come in to existence until the 6th century AD and there is no reference anywhere through the time of Jesus that refers tro teh days of holy convocation as High Sabbaths, nor the days of rest for a feast as a high Sabbath.

But even if there was it would not fly grammatically in any language:

Look at the verse with your contention:

31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the HIGH SABBATH DAY, (for that HIGH SABBATH DAY was an HIGH SABBATH day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Is that what you believe God intneded to inspire? He is the God who created grammar so we could communicate.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Paul told you that there is no Jew that isn't one inwardly. Those who have experienced the new birth. Those are joint-heir with the ONLY heir of Abraham. Jesus Christ.

Believe the Scriptures.

Well we are co-heirs with Jesus so that point of yours is wrong!

and all the Jews that God will deal with are saved Jews. The Bible specifically and unambiguously says that during the trib, 2/3 of all Jews will be saved, but the 1/3 remaining will be saved!

See I do believe the Scriptures.

And Paul constantly refers to national Israel as Israel. So I will to. If you are interested I will post a link to show the Jew in NT thought.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Actually it was information from the Gomera and Tanakh. The Babylonian Talmud did not come in to existence until the 6th century AD and there is no reference anywhere through the time of Jesus that refers tro teh days of holy convocation as High Sabbaths, nor the days of rest for a feast as a high Sabbath.

But even if there was it would not fly grammatically in any language:

Look at the verse with your contention:

31 The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the HIGH SABBATH DAY, (for that HIGH SABBATH DAY was an HIGH SABBATH day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.

Is that what you believe God intneded to inspire? He is the God who created grammar so we could communicate.

You keep saying that something is wrong with the grammar. I don't see anything wrong with the grammar in your example. Repeating something isn't a grammar problem. It might be a logical problem, but it isn't a grammar problem.

More importantly, your example isn't a correct interpretation of our view. You continue to purposefully and intentionally change the meaning of what we say, effectively erecting a strawman for you to push over. I'm beginning to wonder why you would do that. Why would you do that?

You believe that Sabbath must always refer to Saturday. I don't believe that. Your example is deceptive because it assumes that I do. Why would you do that? I proved to you, from scripture, that the term Sabbath doesn't always refer to the end of the week. Why don't the scriptures convince you?

I don't understand how Christians can be deceptive with one another?

 

[CadyandZoe]

That's really irrelevant to the point of AFTER or during 3 days.

Friday to Sunday is two days later.

 

[Grailhunter]

You keep saying that something is wrong with the grammar. I don't see anything wrong with the grammar in your example. Repeating something isn't a grammar problem. It might be a logical problem, but it isn't a grammar problem.

More importantly, your example isn't a correct interpretation of our view. You continue to purposefully and intentionally change the meaning of what we say, effectively erecting a strawman for you to push over. I'm beginning to wonder why you would do that. Why would you do that?

You believe that Sabbath must always refer to Saturday. I don't believe that. Your example is deceptive because it assumes that I do. Why would you do that? I proved to you, from scripture, that the term Sabbath doesn't always refer to the end of the week. Why don't the scriptures convince you?

I don't understand how Christians can be deceptive with one another?

Hey guys....Hopefully I am not off topic...The weekly Jewish Sabbath is always Saturday....biblically and in modern times.
Sabbath can refer to different holidays loosely. It can basically refer to any Jewish holiday. But the Commandment “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God …Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. Exodus 20:8-10,... Is referring to the Saturday Jewish Sabbath specifically.

The event where Christ is crucified occurs over Passover where their Passover happens to occur on the Jewish Sabbath which is always on Saturday. But Passover does not always occur on Saturday but always occurs on the full moon because that is how it is calculated. The first full moon after the Vernal Equinox.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hey guys....Hopefully I am not off topic...The weekly Jewish Sabbath is always Saturday....biblically and in modern times.
Sabbath can refer to different holidays loosely. It can basically refer to any Jewish holiday. But the Commandment “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God …Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. Exodus 20:8-10,... Is referring to the Saturday Jewish Sabbath specifically.

The event where Christ is crucified occurs over Passover where their Passover happens to occur on the Jewish Sabbath which is always on Saturday. But Passover does not always occur on Saturday but always occurs on the full moon because that is how it is calculated. The first full moon after the Vernal Equinox.

Since the Passover does not always occur on a Saturday, then we must prove that it did. If it did occur on a Saturday, then Jesus was wrong about being in the tomb the same amount of time that Jonah was in the whale.

 

[Grailhunter]

Since the Passover does not always occur on a Saturday, then we must prove that it did. If it did occur on a Saturday, then Jesus was wrong about being in the tomb the same amount of time that Jonah was in the whale.

I proved that it did....mystery solved! Post 123 and 124. Calculations of the Lunar cycle to that date, so scriptures and the lunar calculations prove the date and the day, very precisely. So the scriptures prove that it was a duel holiday and Christ was crucified the day before on Friday. Thursday night / Friday morning, the Apostles were still intending to eat the actual Passover meal. Christ's body had to be removed from the cross before dusk...the beginning of Passover / Sabbath.

 

[CadyandZoe]

I proved that it did....mystery solved! Post 123 and 124. Calculations of the Lunar cycle to that date, so scriptures and the lunar calculations prove the date and the day, very precisely.

Negative. Your calculations assume the answer you are trying to prove.

 

[Wrangler]

Friday to Sunday is two days later.

Agreed but again, not relevant to what I was saying is irrevelant.

That's really irrelevant to the point of AFTER or during 3 days.

The words "new life" are a paraphrase rather than a translation of the Greek
word egertheénai, which has to do with restoring someone's life rather than improving their quality of life

Regardless of "new life" or [the Greek word egertheénai, which has to do with restoring someone's life rather than improving their quality of life], it is alignment with 3 days that matter.

 

[Grailhunter]

Negative. Your calculations assume the answer you are trying to prove.

What you are accusing me of could not be more wrong. Formal education for most of my life and all I am looking for is the truth.

If you study the Bible with a belief and try to prove it with the scriptures you are wasting your time. That is one of many reasons that most people, that is most people do not understand the Bible.

I do not care.....I do not care what the truth is. I do not have a belief or doctrine to defend. I am only interested in the truth.

So if you have a question about the truth, I will try to explain it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You keep saying that something is wrong with the grammar. I don't see anything wrong with the grammar in your example. Repeating something isn't a grammar problem. It might be a logical problem, but it isn't a grammar problem.

More importantly, your example isn't a correct interpretation of our view. You continue to purposefully and intentionally change the meaning of what we say, effectively erecting a strawman for you to push over. I'm beginning to wonder why you would do that. Why would you do that?

You believe that Sabbath must always refer to Saturday. I don't believe that. Your example is deceptive because it assumes that I do. Why would you do that? I proved to you, from scripture, that the term Sabbath doesn't always refer to the end of the week. Why don't the scriptures convince you?

I don't understand how Christians can be deceptive with one another?

It is but you are unintererseted in finding out your concept of twhat that passage says is totally illogical and ungrammatical. I can't do any more toe help you.

 

[CadyandZoe]

It is but you are unintererseted in finding out your concept of twhat that passage says is totally illogical and ungrammatical. I can't do any more toe help you.

I disagree. You are the one uninterested in my interpretation of what John said. Rather than consider my view, if only to understand it, you would rather make up another view to criticize -- a view that I don't hold. Why would you do that? Why would you rather make up a view to critique rather than understand mine?

 

[CadyandZoe]

What you are accusing me of could not be more wrong. Formal education for most of my life and all I am looking for is the truth.

If you study the Bible with a belief and try to prove it with the scriptures you are wasting your time. That is one of many reasons that most people, that is most people do not understand the Bible.

I do not care.....I do not care what the truth is. I do not have a belief or doctrine to defend. I am only interested in the truth.

So if you have a question about the truth, I will try to explain it.

I accused you of assuming your premise as the basis for your proof. I didn't go into detail, which was unfair of me. I apologize for that.

I am confident in my accusation that you have assumed your conclusion as the basis of your proof because the process itself is impossible apart from having the correct interpretation of the relevant Biblical passages already in hand before the process can begin. The process depends on clues from the Biblical text, which if misunderstood, can lead to incorrect conclusions with regard to calendar dates. One can not prove the Biblical text from the Calendar; one must rely on a correctly understood Biblical text in order to deduce the calendar date.

How might one determine the specific calendar date associated with a particular event in the New Testament since it includes no explicit time references? One must deduce the calendar date from the time based clues in the text. If one has interpreted the New Testament clues correctly, one can deduce the calendar date to a fair degree of accuracy. On the other hand, if one has misunderstood the Biblical text, the calendar is unable to emend the text or correct our understanding of the text.

In other words, one must not say, "My interpretation of a particular text is correct because I found a calendar date associated with my interpretation." Rather one must say, "If my interpretation of the Biblical text is correct, I can deduce the calendar date of the event." One is able to work out a calendar date for any particular interpretation of the Biblical text, but the locus of salient question is always centered on clues from the Bible which must be correctly interpreted. In order to work out the correct calendar date, one must begin with CORRECT interpretations of the clues. One is not able to use the calendar as an exegetical tool. And one can not use the calendar to correct an erroneous exegesis.

 

[Grailhunter]

I am confident in my accusation that you have assumed your conclusion as the basis of your proof because the process itself is impossible apart from having the correct interpretation of the relevant Biblical passages already in hand before the process can begin. The process depends on clues from the Biblical text, which if misunderstood, can lead to incorrect conclusions with regard to calendar dates. One can not prove the Biblical text from the Calendar; one must rely on a correctly understood Biblical text in order to deduce the calendar date.

There is plenty of information in the scriptures that will lead to dates that can be anchored in time .

As far as correct interpretation of the scriptures.....I read from the manuscripts and these scriptures are pretty simple.

How might one determine the specific calendar date associated with a particular event in the New Testament since it includes no explicit time references? One must deduce the calendar date from the time based clues in the text. If one has interpreted the New Testament clues correctly, one can deduce the calendar date to a fair degree of accuracy. On the other hand, if one has misunderstood the Biblical text, the calendar is unable to emend the text or correct our understanding of the text.

This was all explained in detail in posts 123 and 124. The Bible gives us the time frame....history helps with that to a degree. Exact possible dates are pin pointed by the lunar cycle....Christ is crucified on the day of preparation....that is the day before Passover. Passover always occurs on a full moon.

There are historical time references. The Bible records Herod's death and history records that date, March 12th 4 BC. Christ had to be born before that date for the events of the Magi and the killing of innocence, and Christ plight to Egypt to occur. Like I said, exact possible dates are pin pointed by the lunar cycle....The Passover involves a full moon....always and this particular event occurs on a Sabbath which is Saturday. The Passover does not always occur on the Sabbath. So you are looking for those times in which it does. So here is a list of times were Passover occurs on Saturday and the crucifixion precedes it.

These are the four possible dates for the crucifixion.

Friday 11 April 27 AD

Friday 7 April 30 AD

Friday 3 April 33 AD

Friday 28 March 36 AD

April 27 would cut his ministry down to just months.

April 30, is the is the correct date

April 33 would make his ministry 6 year long and He would be 36 years old.

April 36 would make his ministry 9 years long and He would be 39 years old.

In other words, one must not say, "My interpretation of a particular text is correct because I found a calendar date associated with my interpretation." Rather one must say, "If my interpretation of the Biblical text is correct, I can deduce the calendar date of the event." One is able to work out a calendar date for any particular interpretation of the Biblical text, but the locus of salient question is always centered on clues from the Bible which must be correctly interpreted. In order to work out the correct calendar date, one must begin with CORRECT interpretations of the clues. One is not able to use the calendar as an exegetical tool. And one can not use the calendar to correct an erroneous exegesis.

None of this is relevant because the dates do have anchors and I do have the correct interpretation of the scriptures and the facts. There is no opinion here.

It is ok to be a critic but at least be specific. All the facts are there for someone that is paying attention.

 

[CadyandZoe]

There is plenty of information in the scriptures that will lead to dates that can be anchored in time .

As far as correct interpretation of the scriptures.....I read from the manuscripts and these scriptures are pretty simple.



This was all explained in detail in posts 123 and 124. The Bible gives us the time frame....history helps with that to a degree. Exact possible dates are pin pointed by the lunar cycle....Christ is crucified on the day of preparation....that is the day before Passover. Passover always occurs on a full moon.

There are historical time references. The Bible records Herod's death and history records that date, March 12th 4 BC. Christ had to be born before that date for the events of the Magi and the killing of innocence, and Christ plight to Egypt to occur. Like I said, exact possible dates are pin pointed by the lunar cycle....The Passover involves a full moon....always and this particular event occurs on a Sabbath which is Saturday. The Passover does not always occur on the Sabbath. So you are looking for those times in which it does. So here is a list of times were Passover occurs on Saturday and the crucifixion precedes it.

These are the four possible dates for the crucifixion.

Friday 11 April 27 AD

Friday 7 April 30 AD

Friday 3 April 33 AD

Friday 28 March 36 AD

April 27 would cut his ministry down to just months.

April 30, is the is the correct date

April 33 would make his ministry 6 year long and He would be 36 years old.

April 36 would make his ministry 9 years long and He would be 39 years old.

In other words, one must not say, "My interpretation of a particular text is correct because I found a calendar date associated with my interpretation." Rather one must say, "If my interpretation of the Biblical text is correct, I can deduce the calendar date of the event." One is able to work out a calendar date for any particular interpretation of the Biblical text, but the locus of salient question is always centered on clues from the Bible which must be correctly interpreted. In order to work out the correct calendar date, one must begin with CORRECT interpretations of the clues. One is not able to use the calendar as an exegetical tool. And one can not use the calendar to correct an erroneous exegesis.

None of this is relevant because the dates do have anchors and I do have the correct interpretation of the scriptures and the facts. There is no opinion here.

It is ok to be a critic but at least be specific. All the facts are there for someone that is paying attention.

Again, your calculations are based on your interpretation of the scriptures. If your interpretation is wrong, and it is, your calculations are also wrong. Do you understand?

 

[Grailhunter]

Again, your calculations are based on your interpretation of the scriptures.

You are wrong. My calculations are correct and my interpretations are correct. Now if you want to question one of them, have at it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I disagree. You are the one uninterested in my interpretation of what John said. Rather than consider my view, if only to understand it, you would rather make up another view to criticize -- a view that I don't hold. Why would you do that? Why would you rather make up a view to critique rather than understand mine?

It is not that I was disinterested, it is just plain wrong for the reasons I pointed out many times now!

If I didn't know how Jews reckoned time colloquially, and what Sabbath meant and that the term High Sabbath did not occur until after Jesus, it would make a lot of sense. but facts always get in the way of faulty hypotheses.