The many errors and contradictions found in Amillennialism.

[GEN2REV]

As you are aware, the Three concepts of thought, concerning "a thousand years" are: Amillenialism, Premillennialism and Postmillennialism.

It is evident, that we are definitely discussing only two concepts of thought here, of how "a thousand years" is to be interpreted and applied, being that of Premillennialism vs. Amillennialism.

For the sake of argument, I am only focussing on two of the three concepts of "a thousand years", which drives and directs our understanding for either of the two belief systems, for an understanding of what God means by "a thousand years".
Premillennialism
1. A literal period of a thousand years after Jesus returns, for Him to reign ON the earth WITH His chosen saints, OVER unsaved people.

Amillennialism:
2. A symbolic period of a thousand years before Jesus returns, for Him to reign WITHIN the earth of His chosen saints, AMONG unsaved people.

In concept #1, the book of Revelation is being applied, in order to interpret all the NT scriptures.

In concept #2, all the NT scriptures are being applied, in order to interpret the book of Revelation.

Yes.

Exactly.

 

[Timtofly]

This has been covered before. The 70th week was fulfilled by Jesus in His first appearance.
Here is the scripture challenge, whereby most Christians get derailed and begin fabricating speculations, all because of misinterpreting one word and it's application.
Daniel 9[27] And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

And when was this alledged 7 year period with an indefinite time gap? What is still desolate? What was desolate? What was restored? When was "what" restored? What was that one word?

It will be the 7th Trumpet that is a week of days. That is the one word that many get wrong. It has not happened yet, the 7th Trumpet. Many think a 7 year period has to happen, or did happen already. No! Just the 7th Trumpet. When it stops, so will the 70 weeks. Revelation 10:6-7.

"And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: (Daniel's 70 weeks) But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets."

If the week is not interrupted, the 7th Trumpet will stop and the 70th week will come to an end, out of time. If the week is interrupted, there will be 42 months of utter desolation and abomination. No more Atonement by grace through faith. No church running around hiding from some AC. No enduring until the end. The only escape is being beheaded. If you can show the 7th Trumpet, Second Coming, already happened and people got saved by loosing their heads any time in the past, then the 70th week was already over years ago. Not sure why we are still here in Adam's dead flesh after all that, and life goes on as normal since the Cross, but I am sure you have some explanation "covering up" of God's failure to remove all of Adam's corruption fully.

 

[Timtofly]

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

The earth in those verses is the only thing that does not dissolve. Heaven dissolves, all the stars leave the firmament and arrive as angels in human form. The works of the earth is the "also part" about the earth, not the earth. The firmament is actually rolled back like a curtain.

At the start of the Millennium will be a new firmament and star arrangement. At the Second Coming Jesus will establish a throne and temple. That will all be new and not the works of man. Jesus will restore the earth, and likely faster than it took in the days of Noah, waiting in the the ark. Except this time the church removed will only come back after the restoration, 1,000 years after the restoration, as the New Jerusalem. Revelation 20 is the Scripture that clearly states 1,000. No symbolism, ifs, or buts.

We do not see 1,000 "if" Satan is bound. Satan is definitely bound. We don't see 1,000 if there is a resurrection. There clearly is a resurrection. There are no stipulations hindering a 1,000 year reign. 1 Corinthians 15:25.

"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."

1,000 years. Then cometh the end.

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

This is when current creation totally disappears forever. After the 1,000 years are over. God sitting on the throne, not a Second Coming event, is when this creation no longer exists. Nothing about coming in flaming Fire. Not even when those humans earlier were consumed by fire from heaven. Fire came down, not Jesus. Satan was cast into the LOF, not bound in some pit. It was only the GWT and the LOF. Neither the GWT nor the LOF disappears, only heaven and earth, creation itself. If creation ceases at that point, would not time itself cease? There is no time during this judgment process. None of this takes place in current creation, nor the creation to come. Time is literally no more. At that point Death is cast into the LOF.

 

[Timtofly]

Israel = the remnant of Ephraim and Judah who believe in Jesus. Ephraim = the fullness of the Gentiles:

Genesis 48
17 When Joseph saw that his father placed his right hand on Ephraim's head, it displeased him. So he took his father's hand to move it from Ephraim's head to Manasseh's head.
18 Joseph said to his father, "Not so, my father, for this is the firstborn. Put your right hand on his head."
19 But his father refused and said, "I know, my son, I know. He too will become a nation and he too will become great. In spite of this, his younger brother will be even greater and his descendants will become the fullness of the Gentiles (Hebrew m'lo goy, translated into English Bibles as a multitude of nations)."

The "ten lost tribes of the house of Israel" is a.k.a "Ephraim" in prophetic scripture, which is a.k.a "the house of Israel" (the Jews are the house of Judah), and in Christ there is neither one nor the other.

This is not a replacement at all. It was talking about the Assyrians dispersing the 10 tribes across the earth. The return is not the fulness of the Gentiles. That is the NT church harvest. The return is Matthew 25 after the Second Coming.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:"

This has to happen before Armageddon. Sitting on this throne happens before Satan's 42 months. This is the throne and rule over those same nations (Revelation 13), that Jesus already sat in judgment over.

 

[Timtofly]

I didn't claim any of what you say here. Your entire post is a sham.

The passage is discussing the resurrection, not who belongs to Christ.

Yeah, Christ was the first fruits.

Those who are resurrected at His coming are not those who "are alive and remain."

In verse 23, there is no comma after Christ. He IS the firstfruits, regardless of who else was resurrected at that time.
1 Corinthians 15:23

The only semi colon is after firstfruits - meaning that the rest are later "at His coming", at His return. Just like it says.

As usual, you have to twist, distort and mangle Scripture to force it to say what you want it to ... and it still doesn't work.

Your intentions with the Bible aren't sincere in the least.

So your intentions have no order, as Paul stated, but one big happy event. The Cross, Second Coming, and GWT happens all at the same time for you. You refuse to separate them into 3 different events.

 

[Zao is life]

Of course! That is what I said.
We all need to reflect and examine of WHO it is exactly that we are learning and teaching FROM.

Yes I agree. Including me. Including you. But my point about Truth 7t7's post was correct. Wrongly delivered, but correct. Unfortunately wrongly delivered = incorrect (1 Corinthians 13:1-2). And that's your point, isn't it?

 

[GEN2REV]

So your intentions have no order, as Paul stated, but one big happy event. The Cross, Second Coming, and GWT happens all at the same time for you. You refuse to separate them into 3 different events.

The Bible doesn't separate them either.

Only those who wrestle and twist Scripture claim that Revelation, a book with zero chronological consistency whatsoever, separates them.

Believe what you like. Scripture is clear to those with the ability to understand it. It's not cryptic in the least. All of your man-made, modern, doctrines require an extra-biblical guide book, if not a corrupt seminary education, to make sense of what they teach. Even then, they don't align with plain Scripture.

Revelation 22:11

 

[Davy]

You've made it obvious now that you are the one who's adding through conjecture saints from other epochs or ages. But I don't do that. I stick to the text. The text does not say anything that suggests we need to go using conjecture and other scripture talking about different things or other saints in other epochs to the narrative.

Well, it's obvious you don't know what 'rightly dividing' God's Word is about, nor how to apply common sense from His Word.

Does Jesus gather ALIVE saints FROM THE EARTH when He comes after the tribulation??? They must NOT have been BEHEADED then, duh....!

 

[Zao is life]

Well, it's obvious you don't know what 'rightly dividing' God's Word is about, nor how to apply common sense from His Word.

Does Jesus gather ALIVE saints FROM THE EARTH when He comes after the tribulation??? They must NOT have been BEHEADED then, duh....!

So you think that when they are raised they won't be raised with their heads and they will walk around like headless chickens for all eternity?

You don't have much confidence in the power of God if this is what you think 'resurrection' means.

It's a bodily resurrection. It's not the soul getting raised. It's the body that died being raised again but as a non-flesh-and-blood, incorruptible, immortal body.

@Davy Your 'resurrection' = eternal death, the same death which is God's enemy and one of the main reasons why Christ died and rose again. The other reason was to deal with the sin that causes the death in the first place.

 

[Davy]

If all the church is on earth for 1,000 years, who comes down as the Bride in the New Jerusalem?


"And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

You answered your own question, but then turned around and denied it.

Rev 21:2
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
KJV

Rev 21:9-11
9 And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, "Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
KJV

Per Revelation 21, the BRIDE is that "great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God".

So... you might want to re-think the traditions of men you have been listening to instead of staying in God's Word for yourself.

 

[Truth7t7]

copy @ewq1938 for info

@ewq1938 Sorry. I see now you already posted the same thing.

The word is poimaínō: to tend as a shepherd of (figuratively, superviser):--feed (cattle), rule.

Revelation 2:27 And he will rule [poimaínō] them with a rod of iron, as the vessels of a potter they will be broken to pieces, even as I received from My Father.

Revelation 12:5 And she bore a son, a male, who is going to rule [poimaínō] all nations with a rod of iron. And her child was caught up to God and to His throne.

Revelation 19:15 And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will rule [poimaínō] them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.

It speaks of someone who breaks the rebellion of people, and then shepherds them with a rod of iron (i.e takes no nonsense), and it fulfills God's promise to Him, and God's purpose for the Son of man:

Psalm 2
7 I will declare the decree of the LORD. He has said to Me, You are My Son; today I have begotten You.
8 Ask of Me, and I shall give the nations for Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth for Your possession.
9 You shall break them with a rod of iron; You shall dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

Genesis 1:26
"And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after our likeness.
And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea,
and over the fowl of the heavens, and over the cattle,
and over all the earth, and over all the creepers creeping on the earth.”

Psalm 8:3-9
"When I look at Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars which You have established;
what is man that You are mindful of him, and the son of man, that You visit him?
For You have made him a little lower than the angels, and have crowned him with glory and honor.
You made him rule over the works of Your hands; You have put all things under his feet:
all sheep and oxen, yes, and the beasts of the field;
the birds of the heavens, and the fish of the sea, and all that pass through the paths of the seas.
O Jehovah, our Lord, how excellent is Your name in all the earth!"

Psalm 2:7-8
“I will declare the decree of the LORD. He has said to Me, You are My Son; today I have begotten You. Ask of Me, and I shall give the nations for Your inheritance; and the uttermost parts of the earth for Your possession.”

Psalm 110
1 A Psalm of David. The LORD said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand until I place Your enemies as Your footstool.
2 The LORD shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion; rule in the midst of Your enemies.
3 Your people shall be willing in the day of Your power, in holy adornment from the womb of the morning: You have the dew of Your youth.
4 The LORD has sworn, and will not repent, You are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
5 The Lord at Your right hand shall strike through kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations, He shall fill them with dead bodies; He shall shatter heads over much of the earth.
7 He shall drink of the brook in the way; therefore He shall lift up the head.

Revelation 19
17 And I saw one angel standing in the sun. And he cried with a great voice, saying to all the birds that fly in mid-heaven, Come and gather together to the supper of the great God,
18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of commanders, and the flesh of strong ones, and the flesh of horses, and those sitting on them, and the flesh of all, both free and slave, both small and great.
19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth and their armies, being gathered to make war against Him who sat on the horse, and against His army.

Revelation 19:15 And out of His mouth goes a sharp sword, so that with it He should strike the nations. And He will rule [poimaínō] them with a rod of iron. And He treads the winepress of the wine of the anger and of the wrath of Almighty God.

It speaks of someone who breaks the rebellion of people, and then shepherds them with a rod of iron (i.e takes no nonsense), and it fulfills God's promise to Him, and God's purpose for the Son of man.

It speaks of the Lord Jesus destroying the wicked with a "Rod of Iron" at his return, just as a Potter destroys his clay vessels

 

[Truth7t7]

Metaphor, simile and hyperbole in Apocalyptic literature:

Simile: As rust is to iron, so is idleness to the soul.
Metaphor: Idleness is the rust of the soul.
Hyperbole: "You've told me that a million times."
Simile: Genesis 15:5; Genesis 22:17
Metaphor: Genesis 37:9-10; Revelation 12:1

Whereas truth is light,
(John 14:6).

the sun and the moon,
our rulers of might
(Genesis 1:16; Psalm 89:35-37 Genesis 37:9-10; Revelation 12:1).

When summer is at is height
and the sun is shining bright,
it's reflection in the moon
comes into sight,
and wise and faithful saints
like the stars, are shining as is right
(Genesis 22:17; Daniel 12:3).

Being "in the heavens",
they shine in the earth
(Colossians 3:1-4; Ephesians 1:3; Ephesians 2:6),
and as "the abundance of the sea",
blessing upon blessing do they birth
(Isaiah 60:5).

"From heaven" for righteousness and truth,
"the stars in their courses fight"
(Judges 4:6-7; Judges 5:18-20),

and the blood of Christ is their might
(Revelation 12:11).

But when calamity comes,
and the stars fall from the heavens
(Daniel 8:9-10; Revelation 6:12-13),

False prophets and false teachers abound,
rivers and fountains of water are made bitter.
Their teaching is not sound.
(John 7:37-39; Revelation 8:10-12; Revelation 16:4-7)

and when the sun becomes darkened,
and the moon too, loses her might,
she reflects not the sun's light.

When the moon turns the color of blood
and the sun is hiding its face,
(Matthew 24:29),
and the social and political order is being removed,
then "the earth is being moved out of its place,
and the heavens and earth are shaking"
(Isaiah 13:9-13; Revelation 6:12-17).

and the kingdom of wickedness is being defeated.
(Revelation 19:11-21)

The Lord Jesus Christ remains Victorious,
on the throne of God He is seated
(Revelation 21:1-22:21).
​

Some of the scriptures you quote in your post above referred to the destruction of ancient Babylon, and you're mixing them up with New Testament prophecy, in which the New Testament remains 100% consistent with the use of the same metaphor, hyperbole, simile and symbolism employed in the Old Testament when describing God's judgment coming for example upon Babylon or upon Jerusalem.

So as your post above shows, you've conflated lots of things, maybe because of your lack of knowledge and understanding of the Bible's Apocalyptic literature. It seems as though you are completely incapable of distinguishing between the literal and the metaphorical in scripture. If you ignore metaphor and conflate prophetic passages speaking about different peoples living in different epochs then you have no hope of understanding more than very little of Revelation, the millennium, or much else.

"Sure"

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah was symbolic hyperbole in metaphor

2 Peter 2:6KJV
6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

 

[Davy]

Nah. I never said that Paul taught that it's our flesh that is raised, ....

Well, yes you DID point to it being our FLESH BODY that is made incorruptible, in your post 354, you said:

I think Paul made it abundantly clear that this flesh body will be sown in corruption and raised an incorruptible body.

... so another false implication on your part that I said something I did not. Everyone else can see me referring to the body that is raised as a non-flesh-and-blood body, multiple times. So I never bothered reading anything else you said. Too many false implications about what I'm saying in your posts.

You claim to know what you're talking about, but you do not. What is it that you don't understand about John 3:6 where Jesus said 'that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit'?

Right there, with that one statement in John 3:6, Lord Jesus showed that you cannot get 'spirit' from flesh, not flesh from spirit. He showed they are two totally SEPARATE operations.

So as long as you believe men's theories 'loosely' based on The Bible, you will never grasp what Jesus meant there with showing Nicodemus the difference between this earthly dimension and the heavenly dimension, which are two totally distinct and separate dimensions of existence! Understanding about those two different and separate dimensions is even DEPENDENT UPON UNDERSTANDING the Hebrews 11:3 verse 'proof' of God's existence!

Thus, Apostle Paul said this about the future glorious body of the world to come, for that reason...

1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

What's the "image of the heavenly"? A body like the angels of God in Heaven, which Jesus even pointed to in Mark 12:25 about the resurrection.

 

[Timtofly]

The Bible doesn't separate them either.

Only those who wrestle and twist Scripture claim that Revelation, a book with zero chronological consistency whatsoever, separates them.

Believe what you like. Scripture is clear to those with the ability to understand it. It's not cryptic in the least. All of your man-made, modern, doctrines require an extra-biblical guide book, if not a corrupt seminary education, to make sense of what they teach. Even then, they don't align with plain Scripture.

Revelation 22:11

This argument may have worked if the date was 30AD. It is 2022AD. There have been 1992 years between the Cross and a Second Coming. It is not one single event.

If you think Paul was not talking about the Cross, when he wrote Christ the firstfruits, what did Paul mean?

Do you think Paul was claiming the end already happened at the Cross, even the GWT was already past in Paul's day? This is not twisting Scripture. This is determining what Paul actually meant. From Paul's other letters the Second Coming had not happened yet, but obviously the Cross had. Are we talking about a resurrection or are we talking about Jesus gathering humanity in a certain order because of the Resurrection?

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:"

You avoid the actual words in Scripture, and complain about theology. Well that is my point; to toss out theology and look at what Scripture actually says. So tossing man's opinion out the window is my goal as well. But if you toss yourself out the window without explanation, that is fine as well.

We are not arguing over any single resurrection, although resurrection is part of the process. Paul stated "made alive", and did not specifically state a resurrection. So you, in your opinion, wrestle with the Scripture about specific resurrections, when Paul was talking about being "made alive". Being made alive has been an ongoing phenomenon for 1992 years, and not just about a resurrection. Why does there even have to be a resurrection prior to or at the GWT if being made alive is not about physical death specifically? Are those cast into the LOF made alive prior to being cast into the LOF? How does that even define being made alive, when it is also called the Second Death? So explain it by:

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order:"

Is there only one single event where we are made alive? Did that happen before Genesis 1 even? Still does not explain away nor rule out 3 different points of Jesus presenting to God, "made alive" humans. Because Paul does not base these directly with a resurrection at all. You do, and the opinion of all Amil. Paul ends, not with a resurrection, but:

"And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all."

Amil are stuck in a resurrection rut, when Paul moved on from being the Resurrection and the Life to being fully the Life and subjecting all creation and then turning the Word, the foundation of all creation, back over to God.

So no one is "inventing" a future 1,000 year reign. Paul pointed out that Christ as Prince reigns from the Cross until the GWT. Jesus presents humanity on an ongoing basis, starting with the Cross, and then handing the kingdom back to God. John just happens to point out the last part of the process is 1,000 years in length.

But no! Amil want to twist and turn Scripture and pretend God invented something within the last 100 years contrary to His Word. Obviously it was all stated in black and white even in the first century. Theology has tried to explain since the very beginning. Only after events happen, will human opinion finally understand looking back, as that is the easiest opinion to defend, unless of course no one agrees on history either. Then God re-writes history to create correct modern eschatological views. Because obviously only the current generation living knows all the answers, not God.

 

[Truth7t7]

The earth in those verses is the only thing that does not dissolve. Heaven dissolves, all the stars leave the firmament and arrive as angels in human form. The works of the earth is the "also part" about the earth, not the earth. The firmament is actually rolled back like a curtain.

At the start of the Millennium will be a new firmament and star arrangement. At the Second Coming Jesus will establish a throne and temple. That will all be new and not the works of man. Jesus will restore the earth, and likely faster than it took in the days of Noah, waiting in the the ark. Except this time the church removed will only come back after the restoration, 1,000 years after the restoration, as the New Jerusalem. Revelation 20 is the Scripture that clearly states 1,000. No symbolism, ifs, or buts.

We do not see 1,000 "if" Satan is bound. Satan is definitely bound. We don't see 1,000 if there is a resurrection. There clearly is a resurrection. There are no stipulations hindering a 1,000 year reign. 1 Corinthians 15:25.

"For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet."

1,000 years. Then cometh the end.

"And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them."

This is when current creation totally disappears forever. After the 1,000 years are over. God sitting on the throne, not a Second Coming event, is when this creation no longer exists. Nothing about coming in flaming Fire. Not even when those humans earlier were consumed by fire from heaven. Fire came down, not Jesus. Satan was cast into the LOF, not bound in some pit. It was only the GWT and the LOF. Neither the GWT nor the LOF disappears, only heaven and earth, creation itself. If creation ceases at that point, would not time itself cease? There is no time during this judgment process. None of this takes place in current creation, nor the creation to come. Time is literally no more. At that point Death is cast into the LOF.

Your beliefs are so far away from historical orthodoxy I refrain from response, Aesops fables

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Truth7t7]

Except you promote their doctrine.

Please explain the verse below, waiting?

Nahum 1:5KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.

 

[Davy]

Nah. I never said that Paul taught that it's our flesh that is raised, ....

What you, (and many with you who can't understand the heavenly dimension), rely upon, is the Luke 24:39 verse of Jesus appearing to His disciples after His resurrection.

Here is what you bypass...

1 Cor 15:45-47
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
KJV

John 4:24 says that "God is a Spirit". He has no flesh body. A flesh body CANNOT enter into the Heavenly dimension. Even when the one in 2 Corinthians 12 was caught up to Paradise, Paul said he didn't know if he was in the body, or out of the body. I assure you, he was out of the body, because Paul was most likely speaking of himself when he was once stoned by the Jews and left for dead, pointing to a near-death-experience, similar to this one...

Paul showed Jesus was made "a quickening spirit". Makes sense, since Lord Jesus before He was born through woman's womb was a Spirit, since He is part of The Godhead.

Thus Jesus' flesh body was transfigured to "a quickening spirit", retaining the marks of His crucifixion as a remembrance forever.

But OUR flesh is NOT transfigured. Our flesh body is simply cast off, we're done with it at flesh death. This is why Apostle Paul taught in 2 Corinthians 5 that we have TWO bodies at present, a flesh body which is of this earthly dimension, and another body from God, not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens, meaning of the heavenly dimension. We have BOTH today will alive on earth today. And when we die, or go through the 'change' at the "last trump" if we are still here when Jesus comes, our flesh is simply cast off to reveal our 'already existing' "spiritual body" that was inside... our flesh.

It is NOT the flesh body that has mind. It ought to be evident when we see someone die. Something leaves... their flesh. Their dead flesh body is then completely LIFELESS, and immediately begins to decay, going back to the earthly elements where it came from. Our flesh has NO intelligence of its own. Our flesh body does not work simply because it is made of material matter.

 

[Truth7t7]

Well, yes you DID point to it being our FLESH BODY that is made incorruptible, in your post 354, you said:





You claim to know what you're talking about, but you do not. What is it that you don't understand about John 3:6 where Jesus said 'that which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of The Spirit is spirit'?

Right there, with that one statement in John 3:6, Lord Jesus showed that you cannot get 'spirit' from flesh, not flesh from spirit. He showed they are two totally SEPARATE operations.

So as long as you believe men's theories 'loosely' based on The Bible, you will never grasp what Jesus meant there with showing Nicodemus the difference between this earthly dimension and the heavenly dimension, which are two totally distinct and separate dimensions of existence! Understanding about those two different and separate dimensions is even DEPENDENT UPON UNDERSTANDING the Hebrews 11:3 verse 'proof' of God's existence!

Thus, Apostle Paul said this about the future glorious body of the world to come, for that reason...

1 Cor 15:48-50
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
KJV

What's the "image of the heavenly"? A body like the angels of God in Heaven, which Jesus even pointed to in Mark 12:25 about the resurrection.

Scripture clearly teaches the believer will receive a tangible body of flesh and bone just as Jesus Christ maintained after his resurrection, Jesus being the first fruit

1 John 3:2KJV
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

 

[Davy]

That is why the Second Coming is the 6th Seal, before the final harvest, not at the end of a harvest remotely carried out from heaven.

You deny Jesus and the angels are literally here during the final harvest even though Matthew 13 declares just that. Armageddon is 42 months after the final harvest, not the start of the final harvest.

We are to endure until we physically die. We are not told to endure until the battle of Armageddon. How can those 100 years ago be saved if they had to endure until the battle of Armageddon? Was only one generation told to endure or the whole NT church from Stephen until now?

Nope, the time of Christ's coming and gathering of His Church is on the 'latter part' of the 6th Seal, AND on the 7th Trumpet, and 7th Vial. Thus the 7th Seal acts as a pause, or selah like the Pslams, to show the prophecies for this present world are finished.

And that timing is about His coming on the "day of the Lord", "as a thief" like He and Apostles Paul and Peter showed.

 

[Truth7t7]

What you, (and many with you who can't understand the heavenly dimension), rely upon, is the Luke 24:39 verse of Jesus appearing to His disciples after His resurrection.

Here is what you bypass...

1 Cor 15:45-47
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
KJV

John 4:24 says that "God is a Spirit". He has no flesh body. A flesh body CANNOT enter into the Heavenly dimension. Even when the one in 2 Corinthians 12 was caught up to Paradise, Paul said he didn't know if he was in the body, or out of the body. I assure you, he was out of the body, because Paul was most likely speaking of himself when he was once stoned by the Jews and left for dead, pointing to a near-death-experience, similar to this one...

Paul showed Jesus was made "a quickening spirit". Makes sense, since Lord Jesus before He was born through woman's womb was a Spirit, since He is part of The Godhead.

Thus Jesus' flesh body was transfigured to "a quickening spirit", retaining the marks of His crucifixion as a remembrance forever.

But OUR flesh is NOT transfigured. Our flesh body is simply cast off, we're done with it at flesh death. This is why Apostle Paul taught in 2 Corinthians 5 that we have TWO bodies at present, a flesh body which is of this earthly dimension, and another body from God, not made with hands, but eternal in the heavens, meaning of the heavenly dimension. We have BOTH today will alive on earth today. And when we die, or go through the 'change' at the "last trump" if we are still here when Jesus comes, our flesh is simply cast off to reveal our 'already existing' "spiritual body" that was inside... our flesh.

It is NOT the flesh body that has mind. It ought to be evident when we see someone die. Something leaves... their flesh. Their dead flesh body is then completely LIFELESS, and immediately begins to decay, going back to the earthly elements where it came from. Our flesh has NO intelligence of its own. Our flesh body does not work simply because it is made of material matter.

Jesus maintains a tangible body of flesh and bone, nothing in scripture teaches that this body changed at the ascension as you claim