How to go to Hell. Pt 1

[Behold]

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Are all the born again "the Temple of the Holy Spirit"?
Is not the power of God the Holy Spirit's power?
Is not the Holy Spirit's power the power of God?
So, As God as in all the born again, they have the Holy Spirit, and so they have the power of God.

How could God be in the born again, and they not have access to all that God has, and all that God is ???
How can a born again believer be an "heir of God, and a "joint heir with JESUS"< and not have all they have, right now?

The reason that Christians have no power, is not because of God, its because they do not understand that they have the power.
A.) They dont believe it.
B.) No Faith, no power
In other words they have no genuine revelation of "who they have become, in Christ".
They have not seen this verse with their spiritual eyes..

>"As JESUS IS.......so are the born again....>IN THIS WORLD".

 

[theefaith]

Uh, no...

"2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you." 1 Corinthians 15:2​

The verbs are in the present tense. Everybody who is presently holding fast to the gospel message, believing, is presently saved.

redemption is implied!!

Matt 24:13 endures to the end.

Mark 13:13
And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Rev 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

1. Romans 11:22 – God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness

2. Colossians 1:21-23 – holy and blameless, if you continue in the faith"

3. The race of faith: the example of Paul

4. Hebrews 12:22-25: "we shall not escape if we turn away from Him"

5. Hebrews 4:1-3, 9-12: "strive to enter the rest of God"

6.Hebrews 6:4-9 – those who became partakers of the holy spirit and fell away

7. Hebrews 10:23-29, 35-39: "if we sin willfully", "if anyone draws back".

8. Matthew 24:13: He that endures to the end, the same shall be saved

9. Hebrews 3:4-6: Holding fast our confidence firm until the end

10. Matthew 24:13: "But the one who endures to the end will be saved"

11. 1 John 2:24-25 – "if what you heard from the beginning abides in you"

12. 2 John 8-9 : to "everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ

13. 2 Peter 1:5-11 : "Make every effort to supplement your faith"

14. Philippians 2:12-16: "work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

15. 1 Timothy 6:10-16: the love of money

16. Galatians 5:2-4 "Severed from Christ"

17. 2 Timothy 2:11-13: "if we deny him, he will also deny us"

18. James 5:19-20: the wandered brother

19. Some will abandon the faith

20. 1 Timothy 5:8: "he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever"

22. The real family of Jesus: "Those who hear the Word of God and do it"

23. 1 Corinthians 5:5: "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord"

24. Peter 2: "It would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness"

25. Jude: "Turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness" - a much relevant warning

26. 1 Cor. 9:27 ....Lest I myself might become a castaway

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

 

[Behold]

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

SALVATiON : is Jesus on the Cross. 2000 yrs ago

Faith is not on the Cross, so Faith is not Salvation.

Faith is accepted by God and He then applies the Salvation for the World that Christ died to offer, to "all who believe".

 

[Ferris Bueller]

So salvation by “faith alone” is completely false and impossible!

I don't think you know what "righteousness apart from works" means. I think that's the main reason you don't get it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Im not posting anything about your obsession with OSAS, unless you bring it up.

You're the one who's been bringing it up, lol. You're so OSAS focused you see that potential argument in everything. I have no interest in talking about something that doesn't matter in the Christian life. So what if someone thinks a true believer can or can't stop believing? It doesn't change what really matters which is that you are really a believer in the first place and continue to be one to the very end. There's nothing OSAS, either way, about that. And it's right out of the Bible. Only believing people are saved. So it's quite irrelevant where you came from to your unbelief - former believer, never a believer - the outcome of that unbelief is the same. Focus on what actually matters! Build in such a way as to receive a reward!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You are certainly supposed to Do what Jude says..>"contend for the real faith", and as Paul says.>>"test yourself to see that you are in the Faith".

= This is Faith in Christ, not faith in Faith.
You failed the faith test, because you are ignorant of the Gospel, and the Grace of God.

Wonderful. Now go back to the passage we were discussing and show me where it says what you say it says, and I'll show you (again) where it says what I'm saying it says.

 

[Behold]

I don't think you know what "righteousness apart from works" means. I think that's the main reason you don't get it.

And you dont seem to "get" that Born again, can't be undone by you.

 

[Behold]

--------

 

[Behold]

Wonderful. Now go back to the passage we were discussing and show me where it says what you say it says, and I'll show you (again) where it says what I'm saying it says.

I'll respond to your last 2 posts in this one...

I never bring up OSAS.
People like you, exit on forums to bring it up.
You brought it up on My Thread., and not just this one.

Also. I pointed out to you that if you are """"seated in heavenly places in ChrIst"", then, if you believe later, or not.....you are still there.

Your response?

SILENCE.....of course.

Now.....Let me help you with your flawed faith.

1) Once you are born again, then "Jesus becomes the author and finisher of your faith". (do you need the chapter and verse ?)
So, that is one of the reasons why how you THINK later, or if you have dead faith later, does not matter.
See, Jesus is the FINISHER of your faith, not you.
Read the verse again, and believe it.

2.) You've read the NT verse that says whatever is not of faith is sin?
Know that one?
So, if you lose your faith, isnt that a SIN?
BUT...didnt Jesus die for all your sin, or are you one of those backwards cultist's who teach.....>"Jesus died for the old sins, but the new ones, i have to confess so that God will save me again, 1234,5679 more times ??
Is that you?
You've been saved 300 or 400 times have you?
Arn't you one of those Legalists who teaches that you confess sin to STAy SAVED, because you dont believe that JESUS KEEPS YOU SAVED?
That's you, isn't it?

Let me guess........>More SILENCE ??

3.) Read Romans 4:8, as it teaches YOU that God does not charge the born again with their SIN.
NOT EVER.
Why?
Because Jesus has died for them all, already on the Cross.
So, what does that tell you? It tells you that if you lost your faith, and if that was a sin, then Jesus has already died for that sin 2000 yrs ago, and God does not charge that sin to you because Christ paid for that one ALSO.

Think on all that, if you can.

 

[Behold]

True faith sticks with you. Throughout your whole life. It is tested.
Storytime....a few years ago, i was tripping out mentally due to Schizophrenic issues. I ended up going to jail and when I got I was forced to move.
I ended up moving in with my schizophrenic mother and a month later i was kicked out of there by her landlord.
I checked myself into a mental hospital....having no support from anybody, or a license or a vehicle in a small town.
My faith kept my demeanor cheery on the outside, although I was terrified. I remember thinking and crying out to God for a solution. I had nowhere to go, nobody to help me. I was flat broke and nowhere to turn. My thoughts the prior months while I was in schizo trip was focused on God, but now was the big test for me.
Well a social worker ended up telling me about a homeless shelter and helped me get my ID so I could work. I started working at McDonalds and I am still working there. This is 2 1/2 years ago. While I was at the homeless shelter working and saving up money, about 2 months staying there. A random guy shows up at the homeless shelter and offers people a room. Being unsocial, i was reluctant to accept, but after some pushing from other homeless people there telling the dude I would be a good fit, because i was holding a job. I ended up renting a room of him. Especially because it was within walking distance of where I worked.

The guy in particular turned out not to be a nice guy at all, and has had problems with the law. But God gave me an open door in the form of a homeless shelter and then a room to rent. Guiding me from place to place. I ended up renting that room for over a year. I wasn't happy with the company that I was keeping, but I was grateful to have somewhere to stay. When it started to become unbearable for me and my mental health started to slip, another opportunity came up in the form of my co-workers offering me a place. I've been here for a couple months now, and I am much happier. Especially since these guy Im living with, we all work together. All 4 of us.

I endured hardships and have felt helpless, but God was always in my thoughts during my dark times. And when you endure, he will bring you through if you just keep holding onto him in whatever way you can. The faith and gratitude that comes from it, is well....hard to put in words.

Faith changes a person. It makes a room in their heart and doesn't go away. It stays there. Many people can say they believe, or got had an emotional event that makes them temporarily believe.
In my experience, to actually experience fruit of the gift of Faith, one must do the required work to care for the seed that was planted.

This is a nice Testimony.

 

[Behold]

Some of us are so desperate for love, we take things a bit too far. Or too literal.

There is nothing unusual about what you said, or what you are thinking.
"Love" is the universal desire that God placed in us.

"Its not good for man to be alone", and 'man" is not just the man..... its all of us.
Everyone want somebody to love., and God wants us to want that.......tho in special cases, some are gifted as "eunuchs" who are quite happy being single and dont suffer, in this regard.
That would not be a Catholic Priest.

Peter and some of the Apostle's were married.
Paul was single.

 

[amigo de christo]

no the church is an extension of Christ and has authority from him to teach all nations Matt 28:19

Christ and his church are inseparable!

Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1


Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Christ and HIS CHURCH are inseperable . The CC aint that church my friend . I keep trying to tell you this .

 

[amigo de christo]

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

And it aint found in the CC . I am just trying to help you my friend . Many folks can parrot words and yet
know not the TRUTH nor the aurthor of Truth .

 

[amigo de christo]

eternal life yes!
Saved no!

eternal life is the life of God!
And the life of God in us is grace!

so yes we have grace or eternal life but not salvation

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

if one has not eternal life , one is not been saved either . Ye cannot seperate the two no matter what the popes say .

 

[Robert Gwin]

Whatever the exact nature of hell is, isn't it more important that we talk about how to not go to hell? Believing in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin and continuing to believe in it is how a person doesn't go to hell and the lake of fire. And we know that we are doing that believing that delivers from damnation by if we have the life changing Holy Spirit in us in a converted life. That is what we need to talk about. But that is rarely a topic of discussion because that is considered to be 'judging'.

You cannot prevent it Ferris, people who die go there, that is what the Bible really teaches. So the only way not to go there is not to die, and if you can solve that, you will be a very rich man sir.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

I'll respond to your last 2 posts in this one...

I never bring up OSAS.
People like you, exit on forums to bring it up.
You brought it up on My Thread., and not just this one.

No, I just say what the Bible says, that the word must remain in you in order for the Father and the Son and the promise of eternal life to remain in you.

"24As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life." 1 John 2:24-25​

Whatever OSAS argument, for or against, you want to derive from that truth is between you and God. The important thing is that a person understand that they must continue to believe in order to remain in the Son and the Father and have eternal life. Whether or not a real believer can or can't stop believing doesn't change that fundamental truth that you have to keep believing in order to be saved.

 

[theefaith]

Are all the born again "the Temple of the Holy Spirit"?
Is not the power of God the Holy Spirit's power?
Is not the Holy Spirit's power the power of God?
So, As God as in all the born again, they have the Holy Spirit, and so they have the power of God.

How could God be in the born again, and they not have access to all that God has, and all that God is ???
How can a born again believer be an "heir of God, and a "joint heir with JESUS"< and not have all they have, right now?

The reason that Christians have no power, is not because of God, its because they do not understand that they have the power.
A.) They dont believe it.
B.) No Faith, no power
In other words they have no genuine revelation of "who they have become, in Christ".
They have not seen this verse with their spiritual eyes..

>"As JESUS IS.......so are the born again....>IN THIS WORLD".

All Christians are in God thru grace and in the royal priesthood but not all are in the priesthood of Christ or are they all apostles who care for our souls!

Hierarchical authority:

There is a big difference between the people, and the priesthood of Christ and the apostles!

Matthew 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Matt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you. And Jn 17:18 I send you!

(The apostles with the same mission, power, and authority)

The apostles received the kingdom.
Lk 22:29

The apostles administer the kingdom. Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

The apostles govern the church.
Matt 28:19-20

The apostles hold office.
Acts 1:15-20

The apostles have authority to forgive sins. Jn 20:23

Apostles are the light of the world!
The church is an extension of Christ in time and space. Matt 5:14

The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!

Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!

The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!

Three fold ministry,

Teaching:
Sanctification:
Governing:

Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments, forgiving sins.

God established order and peace and knowledge of truth in a hierarchical authority of Peter and the apostles!

There is a hierarchical authority in all that God has ordained!

The angelic kingdom!
The civil kingdom!
The church kingdom!
The family!

All are ordered with hierarchical and jurisdictional authority!

 

[theefaith]

SALVATiON : is Jesus on the Cross. 2000 yrs ago

Faith is not on the Cross, so Faith is not Salvation.

Faith is accepted by God and He then applies the Salvation for the World that Christ died to offer, to "all who believe".

faith and the sacraments in the church!

NEVER “faith alone”!

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[theefaith]

I don't think you know what "righteousness apart from works" means. I think that's the main reason you don't get it.

why do you skip sanctification?

Paul does not!

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, even yoursanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

why bother with abstinence if you are already saved? Why resist sin unto the shedding of blood?

Hebrews 12:4
Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.



Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

(Redemption is not Salvation)
Rom 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.


Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Justification and salvation are not the same rom 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

 

[theefaith]

Christ and HIS CHURCH are inseperable . The CC aint that church my friend . I keep trying to tell you this .

Evidence??? Prove it!

 

[theefaith]

Only one church has the keys of jurisdictional authority of Jesus Christ!