The Deity of Jesus under attack on this forum.

[Brakelite]

Are you saying that believing Jesus is NOT God is a threat to one's Salvation?

If so, I agree.

No, what I am saying is that salvation is all about Who Jesus is... Not about Who He isn't. Many recognize their need of a Savior and also recognize that only through faith in the blood of the Lamb can salvation be found. Who is Jesus? He is merciful, gracious, long-suffering, full of goodness z and truth. They also recognize He is born of God. Do we reduce His desire to save on account that some do not quite understand the theology of His relationship to His Father? I'm not so sure... I'm certainly not about to condemn anyone on that account. If they call upon the name of the Lord, do you really believe He will ignore them on account of their misunderstanding of the Godhead?
Are we saved by grace or by our theological expertise?

 

[stephen64]

Are we saved by grace or by our theological expertise?

Great point

 

[stephen64]

His name is Jesus. Christ means Messiah. He is God the Son but he is not God the Father or God the Holy Spirit.

I thought you weren't chatting to me anymore:

The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will they leave it. I will write on them the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on them my new name rev3:12
The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, who is to be praised forever, knows that I am not lying. 2Cor11:31
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ 2cor1:3
Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ 1Peter1:3
You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.” Heb1:9

Christ, Paul, Peter and God all state God is the God of Christ

So, who is the God of the one true omnipotent God?

 

[GEN2REV]

No, what I am saying is that salvation is all about Who Jesus is... Not about Who He isn't. Many recognize their need of a Savior and also recognize that only through faith in the blood of the Lamb can salvation be found. Who is Jesus? He is merciful, gracious, long-suffering, full of goodness z and truth. They also recognize He is born of God. Do we reduce His desire to save on account that some do not quite understand the theology of His relationship to His Father? I'm not so sure... I'm certainly not about to condemn anyone on that account. If they call upon the name of the Lord, do you really believe He will ignore them on account of their misunderstanding of the Godhead?
Are we saved by grace or by our theological expertise?

Yeah, I disagree.

How can Jesus save anybody if He's not God (Divine)?

And believing that God is something completely different than He is - for certain threatens one's Salvation.

You must believe in the TRUE God.

If God is ONE, as the entire Bible says He is, then believing in a counterfeit representation that presents him as 3 is exactly the same as believing in a False god; an Idol.

You can't just fundamentally change the nature and construct of God and say, "Eh, believe in one, believe in the other, what difference does it make? You'll still go to heaven."

That is preposterous.

Take these 3 examples from one single page of the OT about who/what God is. If God is 3 persons, in ANY way, shape or form, this would've been the prime opportunity for the writer to comment upon that. Just prior to these verses, in verse 12, the multiple gods of other religions are mentioned. In contrast to that, the writer describes the singular nature of God Almighty.

None of these verses can be twisted to coincide with the concept of God as 3 persons.

"... thou art the God, ... thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth; ..."
2 Kings 19:15
"... thou art the Lord God, ... thou only."
2 Kings 19:19
"... the Holy ONE of Israel."
2 Kings 19:22

Those who latch on, like a pit bull, to the trinity doctrine, and refuse to even consider any other possibility, are brainwashed and spiritually snared due to their lack of love for the Truth - and they will NOT be saved.
Hosea 4:6
2 Thessalonians 2:10

The trinity is a doctrine of men and the Holy Bible, the Word of God Almighty, teaches NOTHING of the sort.

 

[APAK]

How will you resolve the above in light of Romans 3:10-11?

To God Be The Glory

If you don't believe, you don't believe.[/QUOTE]
Pearl, Romans 3:10-11 is speaking to the fact that when we come into this word without the light, the truth, and the salvation from God an his Son, no one is righteous and no one understands or seeks God to want this righteousness. The light shines into the darkness to bring the righteousness of God through his Son, and the darkness of the fallen natural world did not understand it to even recognize it. (John 1:10 - He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.)

And then as you asked in you r later post with @GodsGrace, in Romans 1:19-22: The Law did not bring righteousness, it made folks aware of their sin and unrighteousness that separated them from God. The true faith to believe in the Son of God, Yahshua/ Jesus the Messiah, in their heart, brings righteousness and a renewal of life of the light of God.

 

[APAK]

I consider that God flows from a singular power, the Father. The Son and the Holy Ghost are part of God.

About 75 % there Devin...imo ..

my riddle hint: the HS is only source and of one of the two you mentioned and the other one shares it or is in it.

 

[stephen64]

About 75 % there Devin...imo ..

my riddle hint: the HS is only source and of one of the two you mentioned and the other one shares it or is in it.

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John17:20-23

Would you agree, the Holy Spirit is the link that brings the above all together?

 

[APAK]

My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and you in me—so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. John17:20-23

Would you agree, the Holy Spirit is the link that brings the above all together?

Copy that Stephen with a big AMEN. And the scripture you wrote I had in mind....and others ,"...to be all in all....

 

[stephen64]

Copy that Stephen with a big AMEN. And the scripture you wrote I had in mind....and others ,"...to be all in all....

You are very knowledgeable in the faith my friend. I enjoy reading your posts, I know I can learn from them
God Bless

 

[GodsGrace]

It's a US thing and a Spirit of truth thing imo Pearl

Thanks for adding IN YOUR OPINION.

I don't quite understand how a person could deny what Chistianity believes.

If a person wants to call themselves a Christian, they must accept Christian tenets.

This post is for anyone that does not agree with Christianity...

 

[GodsGrace]

How do you reconcile Romans 3,10 to 11
With Romans 1,19 to about 21??

Not sure what you're saying here @GodsGrace[/QUOTE]
Need my computer...later.

 

[stephen64]

Thanks for adding IN YOUR OPINION.

I don't quite understand how a person could deny what Chistianity believes.

If a person wants to call themselves a Christian, they must accept Christian tenets.

This post is for anyone that does not agree with Christianity...

It may help if you state where these tenets come from for a person to call themself a christian. Councils long after the Bible was written, or the bible itself?

 

[GodsGrace]

If you don't believe, you don't believe.
Pearl, Romans 3:10-11 is speaking to the fact that when we come into this word without the light, the truth, and the salvation from God an his Son, no one is righteous and no one understands or seeks God to want this righteousness. The light shines into the darkness to bring the righteousness of God through his Son, and the darkness of the fallen natural world did not understand it to even recognize it. (John 1:10 - He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him.)

And then as you asked in you r later post with @GodsGrace, in Romans 1:19-22: The Law did not bring righteousness, it made folks aware of their sin and unrighteousness that separated them from God. The true faith to believe in the Son of God, Yahshua/ Jesus the Messiah, in their heart, brings righteousness and a renewal of life of the light of God.

You can believe Jesus is the annointed One sent by God. I'm not one of those that declares damnation on anyone that doesn't adhere 100% to our Christian faith...

I just don't believe we should be arguing this.
It's an argument that should be had Outside of Christianity,,,not within.

 

[GodsGrace]

God made man in His image. That means we have a mind, will, emotions, and our spirit; the essence of His invisible attributes that animals do not have. When we are born again, we begin to conform to His righteousness and we do have access to His power, knowledge, wisdom, healing. We begin to exhibit fruit of the Spirit. Obviously we can't speak things into existence but realize this, He also says if you have faith of a mustard seed, you can move mountains!
We are conformed to Jesus who is God. A Jesus who is not God is no different than any other prophet.
We cannot have a correct and healthy perslective and belief in Christ without His spiritual nature, which is that He is God. That was the whole point, God became flesh and dwelt among us, so that we can know God and be transformed into His likeness. Immanuel means God with us.

Again, I agree up to a point.

It sounds like you're saying that we can be like God,,,the creator of the universe that had no beginning and no end.

God created us with some of His attributes , but we cannot be God.

 

[GodsGrace]

It may help if you state where these tenets come from for a person to call themself a christian. Councils long after the Bible was written, or the bible itself?

Both.

Arianism was addressed at the Council of Nicea.

Are you telling me some on this thread no more than the Early Fathers understsmding of the NT??

You must surely know that some were students of John or Paul or Peter.

I tend to trust them.

And the references in the bible to

THE SPIRIT
THE SON
GOD

Who are these Persons written about from Genesis to Revelation?

 

[APAK]

You are very knowledgeable in the faith my friend. I enjoy reading your posts, I know I can learn from them
God Bless

I'm attracted to like minds and of the same spirit, and it's not a coincidence. There are others on here from the UK, OZ, NZ, Canada and the US and other places that share this very similar spiritual view, and again no coincidence.

Bless you in your work here and in life

 

[stephen64]

Both.

Arianism was addressed at the Council of Nicea.

Are you telling me some on this thread no more than the Early Fathers understsmding of the NT??

You must surely know that some were students of John or Paul or Peter.

I tend to trust them.

And the references in the bible to

THE SPIRIT
THE SON
GOD

Who are these Persons written about from Genesis to Revelation?

The bible is my bottom line, not scholars and theologians who spent their lives pouring over the scriptures. The greatest power and most rapid growth of the church was before their emergence, not after. I would agree, if anyone did not accept biblical tenets related to salvation they should not call themself a christian

 

[GEN2REV]

Still waiting for a response to these points; from anybody who wants to answer for @stephen64 or @APAK

@APAK @stephen64

I wanted to back up a bit to your claim that Jesus is an angel since He claimed to be 'I AM' and 'I AM' spoke from the burning bush.

You are claiming:
1. God/Jesus cannot speak through others; angels, prophets, etc.
2. God/Jesus IS all the prophets, literally IS them, because He spoke through them.

Did God not speak through His most faithful servants many, many times throughout history?

Does that then make God His servants, including the angels?

Sounds like you two have something to answer for in these claims.

Pulling the hide and run card will be an admission of the absurdity of your mutual claims.

It appears you have no answer for this.

Has your doctrine of Jesus is not God fully run its course?

 

[GodsGrace]

I told a fib, I forgot something. I did go to one church where a young assistant Pastor, fresh out of theological college stated Christ was God and everyone should believe it, apart from that, neither me, or others I have checked with have ever heard it stated from trinitarian pulpits, Christ is the one true God.
I can tell you, in all truth, I told two trinitarian ministers people on the internet kept repeating you can only be a Christian if you believe Christ is God himself. One shook his head and smiled, the other shook his head and laughed

This is why Christianity is in trouble....
Weird ministers.

 

[stephen64]

This is why Christianity is in trouble....
Weird ministers.

No, it is spiritual maturity