The Deity of Jesus under attack on this forum.

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TLHKAJ

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Of course, just as the Father.

Now, if you want any respect at all from me as a teacher of Scripture, then you can try answering some simple challenges about your jehovah:

1. Jesus has made all things, and nothing is ever made without Him. And the LORD God of Israel is our Maker. (John 1)(Is 45)

2. They say the word was with God, and the word was a god. This perversion of the Greek becomes a direct contradiction to the LORD God declaring there is no god with Him, and concludes that all gods that have not made heaven and earth will perish. (Deut 32)(Jerem 10)

The false christ is made a god, that was never with the LORD, and will perish with all other gods.

3. Your jehovah has never fulfilled any promised prophesy the LORD made of Himself on earth. Scripture shows Jesus has and will.

4. Jesus Christ is the Word of life and eternal life manifested on earth. The true God is that eternal life, the Son Jesus Christ. (I John 1, 5)

5. Jesus is the name above every name that is ever named by God in Scripture, including His name Yehovah. (Eph 1)(Phillip 2)

6. The Son is to be honored as the Father, and if not, then neither the Father nor the Son is being honored as God. (John 5)

So far none of your others fellows have tried at all.

Pick any one of them or all, and show me what you have.
Honestly, if you're a teacher, then you need to be clear in your teaching. And you are attacking me for some reason based on a notion you have in your head. In order to answer your question/s, you're going to need to approach me in humility and truth, based on what I have posted. You popped up out of the blue with strange accusations that have no bearing on what I believe. I have posted scripture after scripture and they are truth. Argue with Him if you must. I'm not entertaining this.

And btw ....all the scriptures you have posted above, I agree with. I don't see the problem.
 

robert derrick

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Romans 14:11-12
[11]For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[12]So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

Philippians 2:10-11
[10]That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
[11]And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Revelation 5:11-14
[11]And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
[12]Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
[13]And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
[14]And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.
God said

"THIS
IS
MY
SON"


He didn't say this is God or the father or anything else. God meant exactly what he said
God said

"THIS
IS
MY
SON"

Any attempt to twist that is against Gods words

Unless I am mistaken, you teach Jesus is not God. He is not the true God and eternal life. Thomas was mistaken, when he called Him his Lord and God.
 

Episkopos

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People like binary arguments...because it is easy to pick one side and ignore the other.

The Bible is full of "both-ands" which puts the carnal mind at a severe disadvantage. The carnal mind gravitates to one pole in any given polarity. That's how we know what is carnal and what is coming from a deeper spiritual understanding.

So we have a binary set of choices: Either Jesus is God or He is not. The Bible is full of statements that seemingly support each view...that's why people will gravitate to one or the other. And this is by design. It takes wisdom and discernment to include ALL the verses before jumping to conclusions.

On the "side" of Jesus being God we have a further complication of Him having to be co-equal with the Father if you want to agree with a pre-determined stance....that of adding 1 plus 1 and getting 3.

But we are set free in Christ to see the truth without opting for one extreme view or the other. We don't have to choose what is offered to us by religious tradition. The truth is too nuanced for the carnal mind...so either one extreme or the other is agreed upon...by mental assent.

The truth that the Father is over all is lost to those who MUST believe that Father and Son are co-equal. Consequently, the statement ...the Head of Christ is God...is ONLY accepted by those who deny the divinity of Christ. And yet one statement in the Bible does not negate another. Is it not possible that the Father is greater and that Jesus is also God? A smaller part of a greater whole?

So then based on our carnal perceptions, we divide over what is true.

And that is also by design. God does not want us all agreeing on the same error. Babylon is the result of missing the truth.

We are meant to agree by being of ONE Spirit...not one opinion. Until then we will quibble over which verses carry more weight than others...always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.
 

TLHKAJ

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Titus 2:13-15
[13]Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
[14]Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
[15]These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.

Here, Jesus Christ is called our Great God and Savior. If there is any doubt, read the following verses which say that He (Jesus Christ) redeemed us unto Himself by His own blood which He gave for us!
 

robert derrick

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People like binary arguments...because it is easy to pick one side and ignore the other.

The Bible is full of "both-ands" which puts the carnal mind at a severe disadvantage. The carnal mind gravitates to one pole in any given polarity. That's how we know what is carnal and what is coming from a deeper spiritual understanding.

So we have a binary set of choices: Either Jesus is God or He is not. The Bible is full of statements that seemingly support each view...that's why people will gravitate to one or the other. And this is by design. It takes wisdom and discernment to include ALL the verses before jumping to conclusions.

On the "side" of Jesus being God we have a further complication of Him having to be co-equal with the Father if you want to agree with a pre-determined stance....that of adding 1 plus 1 and getting 3.

But we are set free in Christ to see the truth without opting for one extreme view or the other. We don't have to choose what is offered to us by religious tradition. The truth is too nuanced for the carnal mind...so either one extreme or the other is agreed upon...by mental assent.

The truth that the Father is over all is lost to those who MUST believe that Father and Son are co-equal. Consequently, the statement ...the Head of Christ is God...is ONLY accepted by those who deny the divinity of Christ. And yet one statement in the Bible does not negate another. Is it not possible that the Father is greater and that Jesus is also God? A smaller part of a greater whole?

So then based on our carnal perceptions, we divide over what is true.

And that is also by design. God does not want us all agreeing on the same error. Babylon is the result of missing the truth.

We are meant to agree by being of ONE Spirit...not one opinion. Until then we will quibble over which verses carry more weight than others...always learning but never coming to the knowledge of the truth.
God loves binary arguments, because the truth is binary. Philosophers love binary arguments made more complicated than they are:

This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


Debating about the relationship of God the Father with God the Son is one thing, but pushing a son of God as a god of heroics worthy of deification is paganism 101.

Now, so far as there a 'smaller part' of a greater whole is a carnal view of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost being one in the Godhead.

Neither of them are 'smaller', because there is no God that is smaller than God.

And so far as the Father or the Son being greater than the other, that was only while the Son was a man on earth in obedience to every pleasure of the Father, Which is the example He set for us who would become sons of God.

But now, since the Son is highly exalted above every principality and power, which includes the power of God, then it is now the Son that is greater than the Father, because the Son sits on the right hand of the Father in His throne, and the Father sits on the Son's left hand in His throne.

And that throne will be the eternal throne of God and the Lamb: no more the Father and the Son, but only God and the Lamb, The Lamb being forever distinguished and honored with God.

And your 1+1=3 mathematics is also carnal: There is no God + God in Scripture.

There is however the spiritual truth of infinite analysis: 1 and 1 and 1 is Three.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


Both the Father and the Son. Not Father plus the Son.

The pint is that the truth is always black and white, dark and light. To say otherwise, is the philosophic man trying to was spiritual.

Jesus was and is God, or He was and is not. And if so, then God the Word was and is God the Son.

There is no maybe God nor partly God nor smaller God. (Notwithstanding the movie titled, 'Children of a Lesser God')

God is either God, or He is no god at all, and so the Son is either also God or He is not God at all.

jehovah idolators have made Him to be a pagan god, and so is no god at all, and will be destroyed with all such gods that were never with Him in the beginning.
 

Johann

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Of course, just as the Father.

Now, if you want any respect at all from me as a teacher of Scripture, then you can try answering some simple challenges about your jehovah:

1. Jesus has made all things, and nothing is ever made without Him. And the LORD God of Israel is our Maker. (John 1)(Is 45)

2. They say the word was with God, and the word was a god. This perversion of the Greek becomes a direct contradiction to the LORD God declaring there is no god with Him, and concludes that all gods that have not made heaven and earth will perish. (Deut 32)(Jerem 10)

The false christ is made a god, that was never with the LORD, and will perish with all other gods.

3. Your jehovah has never fulfilled any promised prophesy the LORD made of Himself on earth. Scripture shows Jesus has and will.

4. Jesus Christ is the Word of life and eternal life manifested on earth. The true God is that eternal life, the Son Jesus Christ. (I John 1, 5)

5. Jesus is the name above every name that is ever named by God in Scripture, including His name Yehovah. (Eph 1)(Phillip 2)

6. The Son is to be honored as the Father, and if not, then neither the Father nor the Son is being honored as God. (John 5)

So far none of your others fellows have tried at all.

Pick any one of them or all, and show me what you have.

Kind of straightforward guy aren't you, but I like that.
J.
 

TLHKAJ

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Kind of straightforward guy aren't you, but I like that.
J.
Not me. I'd rather see straightforwardness from someone who teaches the truth. Otherwise, all you get is pride. He's not my teacher, nor does he have my respect.

I do respect ones such as yourself and @Fullness of the Gentiles who are teaching and expounding on the truth of the scriptures, who don't twist and wrest the scriptures, but let them say exactly what they say.
 

Johann

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Not me. I'd rather see straightforwardness from someone who teaches the truth. Otherwise, all you get is pride. He's not my teacher, nor does he have my respect.

I do respect ones such as yourself and @Fullness of the Gentiles who are teaching and expounding on the truth of the scriptures, who don't twist and wrest the scriptures, but let them say exactly what they say.

Correct there, hence the Imperative..

1Jn_4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.


Believe not every spirit (mē panti pneumati pisteuete). “Stop believing,” as some were clearly carried away by the spirits of error rampant among them, both Docetic and Cerinthian Gnostics.

Credulity means gullibility and some believers fall easy victims to the latest fads in spiritualistic humbuggery.


Prove the spirits (dokimazete ta pneumata). Put them to the acid test of truth as the metallurgist does his metals. If it stands the test like a coin, it is acceptable (dokimos, 2Co_10:18), otherwise it is rejected (adokimos, 1Co_9:27; 2Co_13:5-7).
Robertson
J.
 
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Johann

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Not me. I'd rather see straightforwardness from someone who teaches the truth. Otherwise, all you get is pride. He's not my teacher, nor does he have my respect.

I do respect ones such as yourself and @Fullness of the Gentiles who are teaching and expounding on the truth of the scriptures, who don't twist and wrest the scriptures, but let them say exactly what they say.

Don't do yourself short @TLHKAJ, you are doing a sterling work for the Lord Christ Jesus here and it would really seem that you and I are in one accord.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


Rom_13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

2Co_6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

Eph_6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Eph_6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand

...after having done all, to stand, the weapons of our warfare both offensive and defensive, not yielding an inch.

Shalom to you and precious family
J.
 
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TLHKAJ

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Don't do yourself short @TLHKAJ, you are doing a sterling work for the Lord Christ Jesus here and it would really seem that you and I are in one accord.

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.


Rom_13:12 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.

2Co_6:7 By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

Eph_6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Eph_6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand

...after having done all, to stand, the weapons of our warfare both offensive and defensive, not yielding an inch.

Shalom to you and precious family
J.
Bless you ....thank you for this!
 
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theefaith

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Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

Paul was a servant of Jesus Christ who is the most high God! Acts 9:16
 
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marks

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The truth that the Father is over all is lost to those who MUST believe that Father and Son are co-equal. Consequently, the statement ...the Head of Christ is God...is ONLY accepted by those who deny the divinity of Christ. And yet one statement in the Bible does not negate another. Is it not possible that the Father is greater and that Jesus is also God? A smaller part of a greater whole?
I don't know that I'd say "a smaller part of a greater whole". I like what you've written here.

It takes wisdom and discernment to include ALL the verses before jumping to conclusions.

And I find this to be very true. Any time there seems to be any inconsistency between passages, in an open and honest reading, it signifies we haven't understood.

Much love!
 
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theefaith

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I don't know that I'd say "a smaller part of a greater whole". I like what you've written here.



And I find this to be very true. Any time there seems to be any inconsistency between passages, in an open and honest reading, it signifies we haven't understood.

Much love!

Husband and wife are equal but have different roles, so the husband is the head of the wife!