Who is Jesus to a Non-Trinitarian?

[Wrangler]

To minimize what God did in the flesh, as Jesus Christ

Nowhere is this in Scripture. On the contrary, Jesus said he has a God who is the only true God.

Given that Jesus did not teach the trinity, why do you?

 

[Wrangler]

And yet ANOTHER thread against the deity of Jesus Christ.

You are not required to post in threads that don't interest you. :cool:

 

[Rich R]

And yet ANOTHER thread against the deity of Jesus Christ.

No. I didn't mean to say Jesus wasn't divine. Nor would I say that that say all born again believers don't share in God's divinity. We do.

2 Pet 1:4,

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
​

Unless we are all God, then having a divine nature means something other than actually being God.

 

[Episkopos]

No. I didn't mean to say Jesus wasn't divine. Nor would I say that that say all born again believers don't share in God's divinity. We do.

2 Pet 1:4,

Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
​

Unless we are all God, then having a divine nature means something other than actually being God.

This is true of course. To escape from the carnal nature of the outer man requires being transported to be where God is. In His presence there is no sin.

The Father is a source of life....but so is the Son. The Son is not just a partaker of the divine nature but also a source of life...He is the way, the truth, and the life.

"For as the Father has life in himself; so has he given to the Son to have life in himself;" John 5:26

The Son can do nothing without the Father. The Son shares one Holy Spirit with the Father. The Father is greater than the Son...but they share one nature and character.

 

[Taken]

Making Jesus God simply minimizes the greatness of both God and His son. God became little more than a bully who did whatever He wanted to do despite man's free will, That would be a perfect description of all the other Ancient Near East gods, but it's an insult to the greatness of our God, YHWH.

Seems your beef is with JESUS.

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 14:
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

John 10:
[30] I and my Father are one.

The Jews claimed Jesus MADE Himself God.
Scripture claimed Jesus IS the MAKER of ALL things.

John 10:
[33] The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Guess you don’t believe Jesus, but that is your choice.
Same as it is my choice TO Believe Jesus, DID make Himself God.

 

[Taken]

​

Unless we are all God, then having a divine nature means something other than actually being God.

Converted men being MADE in Gods “LIKENESS” does NOT make men God, any more than God appearing in a Human mans “LIKENESS”, Made God a created Human man.

God IS Holy.
Gods POWER IS Holy.
Gods Holy POWER IS Gods Glory.
God gives HIS GLORY to no one.
Men do not Possess Gods Holy Power.
Scriptural knowledge clearly informs us Gods Holy Power IS Forever “WITH” a converted man.

 

[Rich R]

Seems your beef is with JESUS.

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Instead of simply substituting the word "Jesus" for "Word" why not do some research on what "Word" really is? It is Greek word "logos." It's not hard to find that it is something in someone's mind, a plan if you will. When capitalized, we are led to believe "Word" refers to a person. It does not. The original Greek text did not capitalize it. Man did that. God had a plan in mind. As Genesis says, God created all things. He did so with Jesus in mind, but Jesus did not create the heavens and the earth, YHWH did that.

John 14:
[9] Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

Jesus was God's perfect agent, just like Joseph was Pharaoh's perfect agent. In the ancient Jewish mind, an agent was considered to be equal to the one who sent him.

John 10:
[30] I and my Father are one.

Read a few verses later. You will find we are also one.

The Jews claimed Jesus MADE Himself God.
Scripture claimed Jesus IS the MAKER of ALL things.

John 10:
[33] The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

The Jews were wrong. Jesus always claimed to be the son of God.

John stated the reason he wrote his gospel.

John 20:30-31,

30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

He wrote, not that we would believe Jesus is God, but that Jesus is the anointed one and the son of God. We must read what's written without preconceived ideas.

Guess you don’t believe Jesus, but that is your choice.
Same as it is my choice TO Believe Jesus, DID make Himself God.

Perhaps the best gift God gave us is free will.

 

[Rich R]

Converted men being MADE in Gods “LIKENESS” does NOT make men God, any more than God appearing in a Human mans “LIKENESS”, Made God a created Human man.

2 Peter 1:4 says nothing about "likeness." It says we share His divine nature.

God IS Holy.
Gods POWER IS Holy.
Gods Holy POWER IS Gods Glory.
God gives HIS GLORY to no one.
Men do not Possess Gods Holy Power.
Scriptural knowledge clearly informs us Gods Holy Power IS Forever “WITH” a converted man.

Jesus gave us the ability to do everything he did. In fact, he said we'd do greater works.

John 14:12,

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
​

Eph 1:19,

And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power,
​

Since we have Christ in us (Col 1:27) it's not surprising we have tremendous power. Of course if we don't know about it, we can't use it. The devil has done a pretty good job of hiding this truth from many Christians.

 

[Taken]

Instead of simply substituting the word "Jesus" for "Word" why not do some research on what "Word" really is? It is Greek word "logos."

Greek speak does not trump, Gods Word that came forth out from Gods Mouth in Heaven and was revealed ON Earth in a body God Prepared, His Name is the Word of God.

Isa 55:11
Heb 10:5
Rev 19:3

Jesus was God's perfect agent,

God is His OWN counselor. God called Himself, “us and our”.
God Himself revealed His Thoughts, His Word, His Power, and called His Thoughts, His Word, His Power according to Gods Own Pleasure.

John 20:

31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.​

​

Already read what was written.
Already Believe what was written.
Already Confessed my Belief to the Lord.
Already have Life through His Name.

John 16:[23] And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Because ^ those days have passed.
Now the days that apply to me are;

John 16:
[26] At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[28] I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
[29] His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.
[30] Now are (I) we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

I followed according to Gods Order and Way.
And NOW I pray DIRECTLY to my Lord God Almighty.

He wrote, not that we would believe Jesus is God, but that Jesus is the anointed one and the son of God. We must read what's written without preconceived ideas.

Scripture is Gods Knowledge given me. I gave zero indication of a preconceived idea. (Ie MOOT comment).
Some people stop listening, hearing, learning what is revealed.
They, such as yourself, can speak for yourself, as do I.

Perhaps the best gift God gave us is free will.

Sure. And some people have reach “certain THAT days”, and others have not.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

2 Peter 1:4 says nothing about "likeness." It says we share His divine nature.

If you are trying to make the point, you will be God, I disagree.

 

[Taken]

To say this, you must not understand math.

100% + 100%....lol Sounds like modern banking math.

 

[ScottA]

Here again we have the logic of men by their own worldly terms declaring what they cannot fathom--because they just can't fathom it.

Meanwhile, even the story and example of the first man Adam made in God's image, does better than that. I mean, Eve who was the first example of the Bride of Christ, was and yet was not a separate person, but one with Adam, for she was first taken out of Him. And anyone who believes that Christ was Emanuel, born of a virgin, according to prophecy, should understand that He who's rightful Father is God the Father, did likewise first come out from and of Him.

But such is the logic from God, and that is not what many prefer. How foolish. How human. How worldly.

I would hate to take that before the throne of God and claim..."But..if He is your Son, how is He also God?"

But--if one has no idea...they have no idea.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

And yet ANOTHER thread against the deity of Jesus Christ.

Concur, seems as IF "there is NO fear" of What A Holy And Righteous God Has Said!:

How about all Unbelievers At This JUDGMENT (Rev 20:11-15):

"And I saw A Great White Throne, and Him That sat on it,
from Whose Face the earth and the heaven fled away; and
there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small
and great, stand before God;..."

May God Have Mercy, GRACE And Peace...

 

[GRACE ambassador]

The Son is not just a partaker of the divine nature but also a source of life

Surely you meant to say THE Source Of life, The Almighty God:

Who Made ALL things:

1) "All things were Made By Him; and Without Him
was not any thing made that was made. In Him
was Life; and The Life Was The Light of men."
(John_1:4; God In Genesis_1:1)​

2) "God's Dear SON (v.13)...In whom we have Redemption
Through His BLOOD, even the forgiveness of sins [Life]:...

...For By Him were all things created, that are in heaven,
and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be
thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things
were created By Him, and For Him: And He is before all things,
and by Him all things consist." (Colossians_1:14,16-17)

3) "Thou art Worthy, O LORD, to receive Glory and Honour and
Power: for Thou hast created all things, and for Thy Pleasure
they are and were created." (Revelation_4:11)

Note: The LORD God "Has NO pleasure in death!"
(Eze 18:32, 33:11)​

4) "That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might
Grace Reign Through Righteousness Unto Eternal Life
By JESUS CHRIST our LORD." (Romans_5:21)

5) "Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed
unto sin, but alive unto God Through JESUS CHRIST our LORD."
(Romans_6:11)​

et al. The LORD JESUS CHRIST Has Pleasure in the life of all! Amen?

Bible Answer To Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Wrangler]

John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
[2] The same was in the beginning with God.
[3] All things were made by him

Yes, God - not Jesus.

Jesus does not show up until v14.

 

[Wrangler]

His Name is the Word

Words are WHAT's not WHO's.

 

[Wrangler]

God called Himself, “us and our”.

That's a big league assumption on a verse or 2 there that does not offset the 1,000's of times God is referred to using singular pronouns.

 

[Wrangler]

John 16:[23] And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.

Proving again that the Father is the giver, Yahweh, God alone.

 

[Wrangler]

Here again we have the logic of men by their own worldly terms declaring what they cannot fathom--because they just can't fathom it.

You mean like, Jesus not being God?

 

[ScottA]

You mean like, Jesus not being God?

Yes, some believe (apparently) that because Jesus was a man, He is forever a man, and because He came as the Son of God He is not God (or something like that)...because they cannot fathom it.

And it makes sense.

For this reason, God said, “For as the heavens are higher than the earth, So are My ways higher than your ways, And My thoughts than your thoughts."