Who is Jesus to a Non-Trinitarian?

[Rich R]

As a believer in the true oneness of God, thereby denying the trinity, I'm called many rather unsavory names. Perhaps "rank heretic" is most common.

So who is Jesus to a "rank heretic?"

1. In Genesis he is the promised seed of the woman.
2. In Exodus he is the Passover lamb.
3. In Leviticus he is the High Priest.
4. In Numbers he is the star to rise out of Jacob.
5. In Deuteronomy he is the two laws: Love God and love your neighbor.
6. In Joshua he is the captain of the Lord of Hosts.
7. In Judges he is the covenant angel named Wonderful.
8. In Ruth he is the kinsman redeemer.
9. In Samuel he is the root and offspring of David.
10. In Kings he is the greater than the Temple.
11. In Chronicles he is the King's son.
12. In Ezra & Nehemiah he is the rebuilder.
13. In Esther he is the savior of God's people.
14. In Job he is the daysman.
15. In Psalms he is the song.
16. In Proverbs he is the wisdom of God.
17. In Ecclesiastes he is the one among a thousand.
18. In The Song of Solomon he is the bridegroom of the bride.
19. In Isaiah he is Jacob's branch.
20. In Jeremiah he is our righteousness.
21. In Lamentations he is the unbelievers' judgement.
22. In Ezekiel he is the true shepherd.
23. In Daniel he is the stone that became the head of the corner.
24. In Hosea he is the latter rain.
25. In Joel he is God's dwelling in Zion.
26. In Amos he is the raiser of David's tabernacle.
27. In Obadiah he is the deliverer on Mount Zion.
28. In Jonah he is our salvation.
29. In Micah he is the Lord of kings.
30. In Nahum he is the stronghold in the time of trouble.
31. In Habakkuk he is our joy and confidence.
32. In Zephaniah he is our mighty Lord.
33. In Haggai he is the desire of the nations.
34. In Zechariah he is our servant The Branch.
35. In Malachi he is the son of Righteousness.
36. In Matthew he is Jehovah's Messiah.
37. In Mark he is Jehovah's servant.
38. In Luke he is Jehovah's man.
39. In John he is Jehovah's Son.
40. In Acts he is the gift of holy spirit.
41. In Romans he is the believers' justification.
42. In Corinthians he is the believers' sanctification.
43. In Galatians he is the believers' righteousness.
44. In Ephesians he is the believers' heavenly standing.
45. In Philippians he is the believers' self adequacy.
46. In Colossians he is the believers' completeness.
47. In Thessalonians he is the believers' soon glorification.
48. In Timothy he is the faithful men.
49. In Titus he is the fellow-laborer.
50. In Philemon he is the love of a believer.
51. In Hebrews he is the High Priest for sin.
52. In James he is the royal law.
53. In Peter he is the pastor.
54. In John he is as we are.
55. In Jude he is the beloved.
56. In Revelation he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.

I think this is a much higher view than simply thinking God always somehow managed to obey Himself, and also went so far as to believe Himself that He'd raise Himself from the dead. God is much bigger than that.

God managed to come up with a plan (the actual logos of John 1) so that a man with free will, tempted in all points as us, could believe enough to follow that plan to perfection. God was a genius for coning up with the plan and Jesus was a hero of heroes for carrying out the plan despite the grave consequences he had to experience.

Making Jesus God simply minimizes the greatness of both God and His son. God became little more than a bully who did whatever He wanted to do despite man's free will, That would be a perfect description of all the other Ancient Near East gods, but it's an insult to the greatness of our God, YHWH.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

• In Zephaniah he is our mighty Lord.

• In Revelation he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.

Why Overlook? 160 Reasons/500 Scriptures, Such As:

22. JESUS Is LORD of the Sabbath - Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5.
31. JESUS Is LORD of the living and the dead - Romans 14:9.

47. JESUS Is Called LORD Of lords - 1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 19:16.
God Is Called LORD Of lords - Deuteronomy 10:17. Since True:

"For The LORD your God is God of gods, and LORD of lords, A Great God,
a Mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:"

Then, JESUS Is God. Correct?

154. JESUS Is LORD OF ALL - Acts 10:36.

155. The LORD God Sent HIS angel to John - Revelation 22:6. It Is
JESUS Who Sent HIS angel - Revelation 22:16. JESUS Is The LORD God.

156. JESUS Is Called The "LORD Of Glory" - 1 Corinthians 2:8.
JESUS is YHWH God - Psalms 24:8-10.

Thus, the only Reasonable Conclusion we know of, is to find More
Than These 10 Plain And Clear Scriptures That Teach That:

there is The Father, The ONLY God, Who Is LORD over The LORD Of lords,
so that Every One Of These "can be Nullified And Are Shown As False!"
Correct???

 

[stephen64]

As a believer in the true oneness of God, thereby denying the trinity, I'm called many rather unsavory names. Perhaps "rank heretic" is most common.

So who is Jesus to a "rank heretic?"

1. In Genesis he is the promised seed of the woman.
2. In Exodus he is the Passover lamb.
3. In Leviticus he is the High Priest.
4. In Numbers he is the star to rise out of Jacob.
5. In Deuteronomy he is the two laws: Love God and love your neighbor.
6. In Joshua he is the captain of the Lord of Hosts.
7. In Judges he is the covenant angel named Wonderful.
8. In Ruth he is the kinsman redeemer.
9. In Samuel he is the root and offspring of David.
10. In Kings he is the greater than the Temple.
11. In Chronicles he is the King's son.
12. In Ezra & Nehemiah he is the rebuilder.
13. In Esther he is the savior of God's people.
14. In Job he is the daysman.
15. In Psalms he is the song.
16. In Proverbs he is the wisdom of God.
17. In Ecclesiastes he is the one among a thousand.
18. In The Song of Solomon he is the bridegroom of the bride.
19. In Isaiah he is Jacob's branch.
20. In Jeremiah he is our righteousness.
21. In Lamentations he is the unbelievers' judgement.
22. In Ezekiel he is the true shepherd.
23. In Daniel he is the stone that became the head of the corner.
24. In Hosea he is the latter rain.
25. In Joel he is God's dwelling in Zion.
26. In Amos he is the raiser of David's tabernacle.
27. In Obadiah he is the deliverer on Mount Zion.
28. In Jonah he is our salvation.
29. In Micah he is the Lord of kings.
30. In Nahum he is the stronghold in the time of trouble.
31. In Habakkuk he is our joy and confidence.
32. In Zephaniah he is our mighty Lord.
33. In Haggai he is the desire of the nations.
34. In Zechariah he is our servant The Branch.
35. In Malachi he is the son of Righteousness.
36. In Matthew he is Jehovah's Messiah.
37. In Mark he is Jehovah's servant.
38. In Luke he is Jehovah's man.
39. In John he is Jehovah's Son.
40. In Acts he is the gift of holy spirit.
41. In Romans he is the believers' justification.
42. In Corinthians he is the believers' sanctification.
43. In Galatians he is the believers' righteousness.
44. In Ephesians he is the believers' heavenly standing.
45. In Philippians he is the believers' self adequacy.
46. In Colossians he is the believers' completeness.
47. In Thessalonians he is the believers' soon glorification.
48. In Timothy he is the faithful men.
49. In Titus he is the fellow-laborer.
50. In Philemon he is the love of a believer.
51. In Hebrews he is the High Priest for sin.
52. In James he is the royal law.
53. In Peter he is the pastor.
54. In John he is as we are.
55. In Jude he is the beloved.
56. In Revelation he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.

I think this is a much higher view than simply thinking God always somehow managed to obey Himself, and also went so far as to believe Himself that He'd raise Himself from the dead. God is much bigger than that.

God managed to come up with a plan (the actual logos of John 1) so that a man with free will, tempted in all points as us, could believe enough to follow that plan to perfection. God was a genius for coning up with the plan and Jesus was a hero of heroes for carrying out the plan despite the grave consequences he had to experience.

Making Jesus God simply minimizes the greatness of both God and His son. God became little more than a bully who did whatever He wanted to do despite man's free will, That would be a perfect description of all the other Ancient Near East gods, but it's an insult to the greatness of our God, YHWH.

Is rank heretic the worst thing said to you? I've been called far worse than that!

 

[Rich R]

Is rank heretic the worst thing said to you? I've been called far worse than that!

Oh gosh, no. That was just something I've been called the other day. I'm just glad burning "heretics" at the stake is out of fashion!

 

[robert derrick]

As a believer in the true oneness of God, thereby denying the trinity, I'm called many rather unsavory names. Perhaps "rank heretic" is most common.

There are no rank heretics, only heretics. And only heretics burn dissenters.

As a believer in the true oneness of God, thereby denying the trinity, I'm called many rather unsavory names. Perhaps "rank heretic" is most common..

There is also man's philosophy rather than doctrine of Christ: The oneness of Scripture is of perfect unity, not being one person alone, whether it was the army of Israel being as one man In Judges, or is the Father, the Son, and the body of Christ in John 17.

You see, dismissing a heretic in Scripture is for a reason: it simply means to try once or twice to correct someone with sound reading of Scripture, and if they refuse, then leave them alone to themselves:

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

You're not a heretic because you worship your own jehovah rather than Jesus Christ. You're a heretic, because you mishandle Scripture on purpose in order to worship your own jehovah rather than Jesus Christ.

Idolatry is simply the natural end of all heretics that repent not.

You see, your true oneness of God is not Scriptural, and so you're not worshipping the one true God, Who is both the Father and the Son:

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

In Matthew he is Jehovah's Messiah.

1. In Mark he is Jehovah's servant.
2. In Luke he is Jehovah's man.
3. In John he is Jehovah's Son.

The name of Yehovah never appears in Scripture as LORD after Malachi. Only the name of Jesus, which is now above every name ever named by God and man.

The Lord Jesus on earth was the Father's servant. Not Yehovah's. You see once again, how as a heretic you purposely mishandle Scripture in order to continue in your idolatry?

I've learned something about the real root of all fringe heretics: knowledge pride. They really think they are special, because they imagine they have hit upon some really great and deep dark secret, that the average reading schlub needs desperately to be informed of. And so they go out of your away like all proselytizers to publish their too obvious twisting of Scripture to do it.

I.e. the only thing rank about you, is your grade-school level ignorance of the Book, being trumpeted as something really ingenious and unique: you insult the intelligence of the average reader that comprehends what is plainly written.

And so, it's not so much your heresy and idolatry that is offensive to man (you an answer to the Lamb for that), but it's the rank stupidity of your teaching. I mean, once someone tries to say the Word was not God, when the Book plainly says the Word was God, we know we are not dealing with a serious person, but only a clown who can't even get his face painted right.

In Acts he is the gift of holy spirit.

Scripture of course declares He sends the Holy Spirit, Spirit of truth, and Comforter to His people.

Being an heretic is one thing, but you could at least not be so obvious about it.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is power to become sons of God:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

1. In James he is the royal law.

Case in point: God is not His law. God is not the law. God is the Word, Who is the Lawgiver.

1. In Revelation he is the King of kings and the Lord of lords.

And so, the KING of KINGS and the LORD of LORDS is Jesus Christ, who named Himself Yehovah, before coming down from heaven by commandment of the Father to become the Son named Jesus.

I think this is a much higher view

As I said: special knowledge pride. Really really high up there stuff.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

than simply thinking God always somehow managed to obey Himself, and also went so far as to believe Himself that He'd raise Himself from the dead. God is much bigger than that.

And then you go from proclaiming yourself really high up there, back down to your grade-school level snickering at what you do not understand.

In the end, your idolatry is simply cover for your unrenewed carnal mind, that is blind to the true things of God simply written in Scripture.

And like all such childish little snickerers, you need to degrade the intelligence of others, in order to think so highly of yourself.

In Scripture, it's called 'jesting': accusations under the cover of joking mockery.

The true God Yehovah obeyed the commandment of the Father to be made flesh on earth, and by faith through the eternal Spirit offered Himself upon the cross, and when it was finished, He became the quickening Spirit for man's rebirth and resurrection, and departed from His own mortal body to preach to the spirits in prison, and with all power resurrected His dead body from the grave, and ascended to return to the Father and sit on their throne together at His right hand.

They both now sit on the same throne side by side: the Father on the left, and the Son on the right, Which in turn places the Son in position of authority on the throne, Having taken upon Himself the form of a servant on earth, now He is exalted high above all authority and power on the throne of God with His Father.

Simple.

God managed to come up with a plan (the actual logos of John 1) so that a man with free will, tempted in all points as us, could believe enough to follow that plan to perfection. God was a genius for coning up with the plan and Jesus was a hero of heroes for carrying out the plan despite the grave consequences he had to experience.

Perfect! I have been saying that the jehovah idolators were making Jesus into just another new pagan hero cult! He's the new Herakles deified to be with the gods, after having lived such a heroic life on earth, having been born of the King of Gods Father Zeus!

Thanks much for confirming that. You are not just an idolator, but a pagan one: your jehovah is not the cult afterall, but Jesus is!

You idolize your Zeus-jehovah, while cult worshipping his son Herakles-christ!

And so, it was your forefathers of pagan Greece and Rome that burned the heretic Christians for rejecting the gods, and declaring Jesus to be Son and God.

You, of course, have not their spunk. You just like to idolaize yourself really smart.

Grave consequences: I always think it's cute when people like you try to dignify your heresy with 'grave' words, to show how really really sincere and grave you are about it. Really really cute.

Making Jesus God simply minimizes the greatness of both God and His son.

Jesus is not made God. Making Jesus not God and a god is pagan hero worship.

God became little more than a bully who did whatever He wanted to do despite man's free will, That would be a perfect description of all the other Ancient Near East gods, but it's an insult to the greatness of our God, YHWH.

This makes no sense, but obviously comes from an offended pagan's hurt feelings. So now Judas was the one sent by your jehovah? Actually, that makes perfect sense.

Judas Iscariot is son of jehovah-Zeus.

In any case, when speaking of your god jehovah, speak for yourself. There is no 'we' here. It's always the same with every proselytizer wanting to compel a 'we' into everything, as though by the mere word it would make others agree they are already part of it.

Not only are you an idolator, but also a pagan one, as well as a rank amateur of boorish knowledge and silly psychology.

And remember, it has nothing to do with neighborliness, which many pagans of history were quite neighborly. I just get quickly fed up with having my intelligence insulted by preening children playing stupid games with Scripture:

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts.

 

[Rich R]

There are no rank heretics, only heretics. And only heretics burn dissenters.

There is also man's philosophy rather than doctrine of Christ: The oneness of Scripture is of perfect unity, not being one person alone, whether it was the army of Israel being as one man In Judges, or is the Father, the Son, and the body of Christ in John 17.

You see, dismissing a heretic in Scripture is for a reason: it simply means to try once or twice to correct someone with sound reading of Scripture, and if they refuse, then leave them alone to themselves:

Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

You're not a heretic because you worship your own jehovah rather than Jesus Christ. You're a heretic, because you mishandle Scripture on purpose in order to worship your own jehovah rather than Jesus Christ.

Idolatry is simply the natural end of all heretics that repent not.

You see, your true oneness of God is not Scriptural, and so you're not worshipping the one true God, Who is both the Father and the Son:

And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The name of Yehovah never appears in Scripture as LORD after Malachi. Only the name of Jesus, which is now above every name ever named by God and man.

The Lord Jesus on earth was the Father's servant. Not Yehovah's. You see once again, how as a heretic you purposely mishandle Scripture in order to continue in your idolatry?

I've learned something about the real root of all fringe heretics: knowledge pride. They really think they are special, because they imagine they have hit upon some really great and deep dark secret, that the average reading schlub needs desperately to be informed of. And so they go out of your away like all proselytizers to publish their too obvious twisting of Scripture to do it.

I.e. the only thing rank about you, is your grade-school level ignorance of the Book, being trumpeted as something really ingenious and unique: you insult the intelligence of the average reader that comprehends what is plainly written.

And so, it's not so much your heresy and idolatry that is offensive to man (you an answer to the Lamb for that), but it's the rank stupidity of your teaching. I mean, once someone tries to say the Word was not God, when the Book plainly says the Word was God, we know we are not dealing with a serious person, but only a clown who can't even get his face painted right.

Scripture of course declares He sends the Holy Spirit, Spirit of truth, and Comforter to His people.

Being an heretic is one thing, but you could at least not be so obvious about it.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is power to become sons of God:

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Case in point: God is not His law. God is not the law. God is the Word, Who is the Lawgiver.

And so, the KING of KINGS and the LORD of LORDS is Jesus Christ, who named Himself Yehovah, before coming down from heaven by commandment of the Father to become the Son named Jesus.

As I said: special knowledge pride. Really really high up there stuff.

For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

And then you go from proclaiming yourself really high up there, back down to your grade-school level snickering at what you do not understand.

In the end, your idolatry is simply cover for your unrenewed carnal mind, that is blind to the true things of God simply written in Scripture.

And like all such childish little snickerers, you need to degrade the intelligence of others, in order to think so highly of yourself.

In Scripture, it's called 'jesting': accusations under the cover of joking mockery.

The true God Yehovah obeyed the commandment of the Father to be made flesh on earth, and by faith through the eternal Spirit offered Himself upon the cross, and when it was finished, He became the quickening Spirit for man's rebirth and resurrection, and departed from His own mortal body to preach to the spirits in prison, and with all power resurrected His dead body from the grave, and ascended to return to the Father and sit on their throne together at His right hand.

They both now sit on the same throne side by side: the Father on the left, and the Son on the right, Which in turn places the Son in position of authority on the throne, Having taken upon Himself the form of a servant on earth, now He is exalted high above all authority and power on the throne of God with His Father.

Simple.

Perfect! I have been saying that the jehovah idolators were making Jesus into just another new pagan hero cult! He's the new Herakles deified to be with the gods, after having lived such a heroic life on earth, having been born of the King of Gods Father Zeus!

Thanks much for confirming that. You are not just an idolator, but a pagan one: your jehovah is not the cult afterall, but Jesus is!

You idolize your Zeus-jehovah, while cult worshipping his son Herakles-christ!

Grave consequences: I always think it's cute when people like you try to dignify your heresy with 'grave' words, to show how really really sincere and grave you are about it. Really really cute.

Jesus is not made God. Making Jesus not God and a god is pagan hero worship.

This makes no sense, but obviously comes from an offended pagan's hurt feelings. So now Judas was the one sent by your jehovah? Actually, that makes perfect sense.

Judas Iscariot is son of jehovah-Zeus.

In any case, when speaking of your god jehovah, speak for yourself. There is no 'we' here. It's always the same with every proselytizer wanting to compel a 'we' into everything, as though by the mere word it would make others agree they are already part of it.

Not only are you an idolator, but also a pagan one, as well as a rank amateur of boorish knowledge and silly psychology.

And remember, it has nothing to do with neighborliness, which many pagans of history were quite neighborly. I just get quickly fed up with having my intelligence insulted by preening children playing stupid games with Scripture:

For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

Glad your not my judge.

 

[robert derrick]

Glad your not my judge.

You're a pagan. So what? There's plenty of pagans still in the world. It's a rising fad again. And like most pagans of history, you just have your own special little cult. And you've confirmed that's what you jehovah idolizers are with the name of 'Jesus'.

I mean, you're the one teaching it about the son being a god, and created to be a great hero on earth and deified with the gods in heaven.

Grow up. I know, you are childish in your Scriptural antics, but you ought at least be a man about what you are.

Like I said, I don't have any personal problems with heretic pagans, other than using the name of Jesus for their cult worship. I'm sure you're quite neighborly.

Although, adults deceiving themselves about who and what they are is silly to me.

If we were neighbors, and you kept your cult to yourself, and I kept my worship to my house, then I'm sure we'd get along just fine. Just as neighbors only, not as brethren in the Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ.

You disagree with my faith from the heart, and I disagree with your faith from the heart, and so we're not brothers in the faith.

No big deal to me. Just stop saying 'we' in the faith, and there's no problem at all.

 

[Rich R]

Why Overlook? 160 Reasons/500 Scriptures, Such As:

I think there is a limit as to the allowed size of the posts (10,000 characters?). So there would be no way I could write enough to extol the greatness of Jesus.

22. JESUS Is LORD of the Sabbath - Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5.
31. JESUS Is LORD of the living and the dead - Romans 14:9.

47. JESUS Is Called LORD Of lords - 1 Timothy 6:15; Revelation 19:16.
God Is Called LORD Of lords - Deuteronomy 10:17. Since True:

"For The LORD your God is God of gods, and LORD of lords, A Great God,
a Mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:"

Then, JESUS Is God. Correct?

154. JESUS Is LORD OF ALL - Acts 10:36.

155. The LORD God Sent HIS angel to John - Revelation 22:6. It Is
JESUS Who Sent HIS angel - Revelation 22:16. JESUS Is The LORD God.

156. JESUS Is Called The "LORD Of Glory" - 1 Corinthians 2:8.
JESUS is YHWH God - Psalms 24:8-10.

Thus, the only Reasonable Conclusion we know of, is to find More
Than These 10 Plain And Clear Scriptures That Teach That:

there is The Father, The ONLY God, Who Is LORD over The LORD Of lords,
so that Every One Of These "can be Nullified And Are Shown As False!"
Correct???

I'm not sure who you are talking about when you say LORD (all caps). In the OT KJV it means "YHWH" but I've not seen it used that way in the NT, including the several verses from the NT you quoted. God didn't tell anyone to use all caps, so it's probably not best to use it as a proof text for anything.

In any case, as 1 Cor 8:5 says, there are many lords. They're obviously not all YHWH though.

 

[Rich R]

You disagree with my faith from the heart, and I disagree with your faith from the heart, and so we're not brothers in the faith.

No big deal to me. Just stop saying 'we' in the faith, and there's no problem at all.

Having the same father makes two sons brothers. It has nothing to do with what those sons believe. If I'm born again (I am) and you're born again (I'm guessing you are), then we are brothers.

 

[Wrangler]

God managed to come up with a plan (the actual logos of John 1) so that a man with free will, tempted in all points as us, could believe enough to follow that plan to perfection. God was a genius for coning up with the plan and Jesus was a hero of heroes for carrying out the plan despite the grave consequences he had to experience.

Making Jesus God simply minimizes the greatness of both God and His son.

So many golden nuggets in a few sentences!

1st, The absurdity of pretending John 1's logos is God is the quicksand of trinitarianism. But then again, they have no real Scriptural support, so they are forced to desperate reaches. They falsely suppose our all powerful Creator is unable to express himself except through Jesus, which is demonstrably untrue.

2nd, the theological significance of Jesus NOT being God cannot be overstated. If God took on the form of a man and merely appeared to die, it has no theological meaning since God is all powerful and can do anything. The penalty for sin is death, really dead, true and completely dead and an eternal, unchanging God cannot pay this price.* Enter the hero, the suffering servant of God.

That Jesus is the servant of God is explicit in Acts 3:13.

True heroic action involves risk, real risk. And the highest heroic acts involves risking it all, risking what is of greatest value, one's own life. The man Jesus gave the last full measure of devotion to his God (John 20:17), he actually gave more than Abraham was willing. That God rewarded Jesus with:

1. Resurrecting him into a glorified, incorruptible, eternal body. Acts 17:31.
2. Giving him all authority in heaven and Earth. Matthew 28:18

Is a consequence of the man's heroic devotion, sacrifice and love.


* The logic abandoning mystical dualists have capability backwards by asserting death is a thing to be capable of when it is living that is the capability; death is the inability to stay alive. In other words, it is not that God is incapable of dying but he is capable of immortality. The logical consequence is inescapable. Someone other than God had to take on the substitutionary punishment of the sins of the world, our sins, which is death (full, total and complete) in order for God's redemptive plan to be fulfilled.

 

[Rich R]

If we were neighbors, and you kept your cult to yourself, and I kept my worship to my house, then I'm sure we'd get along just fine. Just as neighbors only, not as brethren in the Lord God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Well, aren't you special! You can tolerate your neighbor even if they disagree with you. Very laudable!

How about loving and giving of yourself to your neighbor instead of just getting along just fine. Of course that would only work if I followed your dictate to keep to myself. That sounds like much closer to hate than love. Have you even bothered to say a prayer for me? I prayed for you. Not that you'd come over to my side, but just that God would bless you in some way. It's a little thing, but I'm pretty sure that is how God wants His children to treat each other.

Did I tell you about a brother who hates another brother...that they are walking in darkness? I think I did and yet you ignored it and persist in spewing vitriol in the name of God. As such, why would you think your judgment mean anything to me? It only hurts yourself.

Look, I'm really sorry to say these things to you, but maybe it'll ring true with you one of these days. You'll feel much better if and when you do.

 

[Rich R]

So many golden nuggets in a few sentences!

1st, The absurdity of pretending John 1's logos is God is the quicksand of trinitarianism. But then again, they have no real Scriptural support, so they are forced to desperate reaches. They falsely suppose our all powerful Creator is unable to express himself except through Jesus, which is demonstrably untrue.

2nd, the theological significance of Jesus NOT being God cannot be overstated. If God took on the form of a man and merely appeared to die, it has no theological meaning since God is all powerful and can do anything. The penalty for sin is death, really dead, true and completely dead and an eternal, unchanging God cannot pay this price.* Enter the hero, the suffering servant of God.

That Jesus is the servant of God is explicit in Acts 3:13.

True heroic action involves risk, real risk. And the highest heroic acts involves risking it all, risking what is of greatest value, one's own life. The man Jesus gave the last full measure of devotion to his God (John 20:17), he actually gave more than Abraham was willing. That God rewarded Jesus with:

1. Resurrecting him into a glorified, incorruptible, eternal body. Acts 17:31.
2. Giving him all authority in heaven and Earth. Matthew 28:18

Is a consequence of the man's heroic devotion, sacrifice and love.


* The logic abandoning mystical dualists have capability backwards by asserting death is a thing to be capable of when it is living that is the capability; death is the inability to stay alive. In other words, it is not that God is incapable of dying but he is capable of immortality. The logical consequence is inescapable. Someone other than God had to take on the substitutionary punishment of the sins of the world, our sins, which is death (full, total and complete) in order for God's redemptive plan to be fulfilled.

If you want some amusing reading, Google (or DuckDuckGo) the reasons that people give for why God waited 4,000 years before "assuming flesh" and coming down to save us. Never would occur to them that the reason it 4,000 years is that it took that long to convince enough free will people to receive and carry out God's plan of redemption. How could anyone say enough about the love, patience, resourcefulness, and genius of God in being able to convince a bunch of lost sheep to do what had to be done. I'm surprised it only took 4,000 years!

 

[Episkopos]

I consider myself to be a spiritual Christian...unaffected by man-made doctrinal statements that boil down mysteries to something that is easy to memorize and repeat. As such I see the Trinity theory to be man-made...a way of trying to understand something spiritual in layman terms. I think it is not necessary to do so and can bring great error. Most people will never go deep enough for this theory to hurt them. But great harm can come with error when pursued to its ultimate end.

Jesus Christ is God...the God of Israel who has been given all authority by the Father....who is infinitely great. The Father has given MORE glory and authority to His Son. And Jesus wants to take some of us with Him...to rule and reign with Him.

It is the Father who decides who that will be.

I am more of a Binatarian...if labels must be attached to everything.

The GodHead is made up of Father and Son ...united in One Holy Spirit. And are called into that same Oneness.

Jesus and the Father are One. Not in stature, but in character and nature.

 

[robert derrick]

Having the same father makes two sons brothers. It has nothing to do with what those sons believe. If I'm born again (I am) and you're born again (I'm guessing you are), then we are brothers.

No. we're not. My Father is not called jehovah.

My Lord named Himself Yehovah, before the Father called Him Jesus on earth.

We have neither the same Father nor Son, who are to be honored the same as One Another:

That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

I'm a Jesus lover. You are a lover of your cult with Jesus' name.

We are not brothers. Period. Neighborly neighbors? Why not.

Don't try to keep attaching your cult to my worship, and I will not try to force my worship into your cult.

Grow up and quit trying to have it both ways.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

I think there is a limit as to the allowed size of the posts (10,000 characters?). So there would be no way I could write enough to extol the greatness of Jesus.

I'm not sure who you are talking about when you say LORD (all caps). In the OT KJV it means "YHWH" but I've not seen it used that way in the NT, including the several verses from the NT you quoted. God didn't tell anyone to use all caps, so it's probably not best to use it as a proof text for anything.

In any case, as 1 Cor 8:5 says, there are many lords. They're obviously not all YHWH though.

Since JESUS Is YHWH God Almighty, just seems respectful to me to "honor Both
The Father And The SON" (LORD of all, LORD of lords) (John_5:22-23). Amen.

GRACE, Peace, and JOY!

 

[robert derrick]

How about loving and giving of yourself to your neighbor instead of just getting along just fine. Of course that would only work if I followed your dictate to keep to myself. That sounds like much closer to hate than love. Have you even bothered to say a prayer for me? I prayed for you. Not that you'd come over to my side, but just that God would bless you in some way. It's a little thing, but I'm pretty sure that is how God wants His children to treat each other.

Neighborly includes laying one's body down, if necessary. I have already given of my heart and soul to you, to correct your cultism and hero worship of Jesus' name, and you reject it out of hand without so much as an honest counterpoint to anything I said.

And so, we can only love some as much as allowed, and my loving you as a neighbor would not include preaching against your cult in one another's homes, nor would it include your preaching your cult to me.

If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Have you even bothered to say a prayer for me? I prayed for you. Not that you'd come over to my side, but just that God would bless you in some way. It's a little thing, but I'm pretty sure that is how God wants His children to treat each other.

Praying that you have good things in this life while it lasts for you is no problem at all, after all God cares about the crows as well as any other living creature of His on earth. And since you mentioned it, and God laid it on my heart to do so, I have. Sincerely. If all people want from God is this life, then He doesn't begrudge it.

But praying for your unbelieving soul is not Scriptural. I ceased wasting my time trying to do that long ago. I am not an 'evangelical proselytizer'. I live and let live, which concludes believe and let believe, so long as people remain neighborly, then so do I, which includes Christians, pagans, homosexuals, Islamists, even liberals, if that were possible. (They're the phoniest 3$ Bills to ever come down the pike)

But, if you're going to come out in public and preach your cult of Jesus for doctrine of Christ, then I'm more than glad to expose it for the rubbish it is. If you get your feelings hurt, then go where your fellow idolators love your idol jehovah likewise.

Did I tell you about a brother who hates another brother...that they are walking in darkness? I think I did and yet you ignored it and persist in spewing vitriol in the name of God. As such, why would you think your judgment mean anything to me? It only hurts yourself.

Look, I'm really sorry to say these things to you, but maybe it'll ring true with you one of these days. You'll feel much better if and when you do.

If you did, I didn't see it. But since we're not brothers, then it doesn't apply to me. Also, I've been quite clear that I don't hate you personally, nor do I hate any pagan idolator. Not do I mind it when they still to their own religion, such as that of Herakles or Augustus. But I do hate your lying ideology about Jesus' name, especially with it being so grade-school sneering against God the Word and Son, while thinking yourself to be so high in Cloudcuckooland.

What pagans say about hate and love matters nothing to me.

You just can't get over yourself, when being confronted with someone who gives your preening vanity with the Book any respect. At all.

You're a third-rate pseudo-theologian of the Bible to mask your pagan idolatry. Period.

 

[Rich R]

Since JESUS Is YHWH God Almighty, just seems respectful to me to "honor Both
The Father And The SON" (LORD of all, LORD of lords) (John_5:22-23). Amen.

GRACE and Peace!

Who deserves the most honor?

A man with free will, tempted just like you and I, who followed God's will to perfection, including a most horrendous death.
would not deserve honor? He had to be YHWH to get that honor? Would God have had a choice to obey Himself or not? Would God have doubted that He would raise Himself from the dead? As I've said many times, making Jesus God minimizes both the resourcefulness of God and the heroism of the man Jesus. If you want to honer them, give each their due.

God didn't force Adam to obey, nor did He force Jesus to obey. How would you have solved the problem, knowing that man had dominion and free will? Would you just have come down and made it right regardless of what the people wanted? Would you take back the dominion you gave man and just do whatever you wanted? That might be a typical solution of men, but God is much bigger.

 

[Rich R]

Also, I've been quite clear that I don't hate you personally

Well, I guess I believe you, but you didn't do a very good job of communicating that.

 

[robert derrick]

I consider myself to be a spiritual Christian...unaffected by man-made doctrinal statements that boil down mysteries to something that is easy to memorize and repeat. As such I see the Trinity theory to be man-made...a way of trying to understand something spiritual in layman terms. I think it is not necessary to do so and can bring great error. Most people will never go deep enough for this theory to hurt them. But great harm can come with error when pursued to its ultimate end.

Jesus Christ is God...the God of Israel who has been given all authority by the Father....who is infinitely great. The Father has given MORE glory and authority to His Son. And Jesus wants to take some of us with Him...to rule and reign with Him.

It is the Father who decides who that will be.

I am more of a Binatarian...if labels must be attached to everything.

The GodHead is made up of Father and Son ...united in One Holy Spirit. And are called into that same Oneness.

Jesus and the Father are One. Not in stature, but in character and nature.

Trying to find some happy medium between Jesus being God or a god, doesn't work.

The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one. Not two united in one.

God is not called by God. The Son was called Jesus on earth and still is. He was also called as a boy out of Egypt, and a man as Redeemer out of Sion.

God is one in stature, character, and nature, and each one of the Godhead is God in Himself. The 'trinity' is the name given to the truth of the Godhead: these three are each God and the three are one in perfect unity, stature, character, and nature.

If any One has more 'stature' in the Godhead now, it would be the Son who sits on the right hand of the Father, while the Father now sits on the left hand of the Son.

The right hand scripturally is that of greater stature and authority.

 

[Rich R]

Neighborly includes laying one's body down, if necessary. I have already given of my heart and soul to you, to correct your cultism and hero worship of Jesus' name, and you reject it out of hand without so much as an honest counterpoint to anything I said.

And so, we can only love some as much as allowed, and my loving you as a neighbor would not include preaching against your cult in one another's homes, nor would it include your preaching your cult to me.

If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.



Praying that you have good things in this life while it lasts for you is no problem at all, after all God cares about the crows as well as any other living creature of His on earth. And since you mentioned it, and God laid it on my heart to do so, I have. Sincerely. If all people want from God is this life, then He doesn't begrudge it.

But praying for your unbelieving soul is not Scriptural. I ceased wasting my time trying to do that long ago. I am not an 'evangelical proselytizer'. I live and let live, which concludes believe and let believe, so long as people remain neighborly, then so do I, which includes Christians, pagans, homosexuals, Islamists, even liberals, if that were possible. (They're the phoniest 3$ Bills to ever come down the pike)

But, if you're going to come out in public and preach your cult of Jesus for doctrine of Christ, then I'm more than glad to expose it for the rubbish it is. If you get your feelings hurt, then go where your fellow idolators love your idol jehovah likewise.


If you did, I didn't see it. But since we're not brothers, then it doesn't apply to me. Also, I've been quite clear that I don't hate you personally, nor do I hate any pagan idolator. Not do I mind it when they still to their own religion, such as that of Herakles or Augustus. But I do hate your lying ideology about Jesus' name, especially with it being so grade-school sneering against God the Word and Son, while thinking yourself to be so high in Cloudcuckooland.

What pagans say about hate and love matters nothing to me.

You just can't get over yourself, when being confronted with someone who gives your preening vanity with the Book any respect. At all.

You're a third-rate pseudo-theologian of the Bible to mask your pagan idolatry. Period.

Maybe consider a course in diplomacy? As it is, I just see rage. Hard to take very seriously.