Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[Johann]

I often hear those who see themselves as "holier than thou" cite Hebrews 12:14 and imply this means that if we are not "holy enough" (in of ourselves, like them) "in addition" to have placed our faith in Christ for salvation, then we won't be saved. The NASB reads - Pursue peace with all men, and the sanctification without which no one will see the Lord.

Those who are sanctified have been set apart/made holy in standing before God positionally in Christ. 1 Corinthians 6:11 - Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God. 1 Corinthians 1:2 - To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus..

Correct, applicable for the genuine believers in Christ Jesus.
J.

 

[Behold]

#1. God's Grace Through Faith in Jesus Christ as the Savior
(Initial Salvation, and or Foundational Salvation).

There is only "the Gift of Salvation".........there is no such thing as Initial, or Progressive, or Intermittent.

Salvation is JESUS ON THE CROSS.
He finished it.
Its not "initial"...its DONE......>He said. "IT is FINISHED".
He should know.

 

[Episkopos]

I'll show you a mystery that is a Spiritual Truth.

There is No sin "in Christ".
And all the born again, are "in Christ".
If you learn that mystery that is THE revelation regarding being "Made Righteous", by GOD...then you have found some Light, indeed.

You have understood half the mystery...but you are missing a fundamental, if subtle, difference between being in Christ and abiding in Christ. Those who are in Christ can still be rejected...not so those who abide in Christ.

Notice these verses...

John 15:1 "I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he takes away: and every branch that bears fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
(Notice here that a person can be in Christ yet still be taken away...not all produce the right kind of fruit.)
3 Now you are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
5 I am the vine, you are the branches: He that abides in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing."

Those who ABIDE in Christ always bear fruit.

The subtlety of that distinction becomes an overwhelming factor when considering if we will be accepted By God or else..."go away, I never knew you"

Notice this verse..

"As JESUS IS......so are the born again, in this world"....

Ask yourself....>"can i have any sin, and be Seated in Heavenly places, in Christ"?

Ahhhhh.

We are only seated with Christ in Zion when we abide in Him...and this is very rare compared to those who are only "in" Christ.

Being "born again" puts us in Christ...yes...but a new birth is NOT ENOUGH in itself to fulfill the whole will of God. For that we need to go to the cross and be crucified in the outer man. THEN we can be translated into the kingdom realm to be where Jesus is...and walk as He walked here on earth. We need to go to Him to remain in Him. In Him (abiding) is no sin. As He is....so are we in this world. Again that is about abiding in Christ...not just being born again at one time.

Being born again is the exact EQUIVALENT of being as Israelite in the wilderness. They were chosen by birthright into the race of faith at that time. And we are born again into a spiritual birthright...into the wilderness of our own souls. The spiritual war is over our souls. Those who claim the battle is over when the race is just begun are seen as the foolish ones in the NT.

 

[Johann]

There is only "the Gift of Salvation".........there is no such thing as Initial, or Progressive, or Intermittent.

Salvation is JESUS ON THE CROSS.
He finished it.
Its not "initial"...its DONE......>He said. "IT is FINISHED".
He should know.

Nicely done, stick to biblical terminologies.
J.

 

[mailmandan]

There is only "the Gift of Salvation".........there is no such thing as Initial, or Progressive, or Intermittent.

Salvation is JESUS ON THE CROSS.
He finished it.
Its not "initial"...its DONE......>He said. "IT is FINISHED".
He should know.

From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. "Final salvation" is a term that is typically used by those who peddle "type 2 works salvation."

 

[Robert Gwin]

There are two types of sin aren't there. Sin you will not wilfully and with premeditation set out to commit, but sin you are going to commit in your everyday life simply because in your body of flesh you will never perfectly obey the letter of the law/commandments, none of us will. I think you hold the law to the pinnacle it has been set at, and do not dumb it down. That is why you know you constantly fall short in obedience to that level. Then there is sin that is committed that is wilfull and premeditated. They are two completely different things. Many people join churches and leave because others like to insinuate they either do not commit sin, or they are nigh on sinless. Those who believe them and are sincere of heart, in far too many cases walk away crushed. It is much better to be humble and honest, rather than give a false impression of oneself, that may crush your brother
God bless, and thank you for your humility and honesty

Thanks sir for your kind comment, I agree with your analogy of sin. Many people don't even think about what constitutes sin, for instance, an employee who violates their employers rules is sinning, if one takes a break that is unauthorized, in reality that is theft. Most don't realize that we are subject to the laws of the country we live in, if they do not conflict with God's laws, we are to be obedient to them, if we are not, then we are sinning. The list is basically endless. I sin every single time I drive, ever tried never to exceed the speed limit in which you had no say so in the law? I tried it once, made it for a while, but couldn't take it anymore, and in reality I was endangering others by forcing them to pass. Yes, the world is designed to keep us sinning.

 

[Behold]

Humans come from dust of the Earth.

Humans come from their Mother's womb.
So, """if you came from dust""", you must be from Mars.

You will die, and your body will return to dirt......but that is not the same as being born a human.

 

[ChristisGod]

Thank you for the post. Good point, Paul said he was not perfect. As an aside, it's strange, but many who lay great stress on holy living to a very high degree, consider Paul was speaking of his christian life in rom 7:14-24.

And many think its when he was a pharisee under the law.

next

 

[Robert Gwin]

If you know you sin everyday, all I can say is why? If there is something in the world that you are addicted to - stop. Put evil away from you. If it is a television, take it to the dump. If it is porn on this computer you use for the forums, then quit the forums and take your computer to the dump. Believing that you will finally overcome sin after you die, sorry, but that is too late. Revelation 22:11.

I've talked to many JW's who live righteously. You can too. The one's I've talked to know that we must be indwelt by the Holy Spirit to have His power to kill the sin nature. Just ask. Pray.

Luke 11:9-13
9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? 13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!”

Like everyone else maam, I believe I am living righteously Pro 21:2. That is why I have dedicated my life to Jehovah, and have chosen to be one of His witnesses. Jehovah's witnesses are not immune to sin, and none of us do not sin daily, as far as I know. One thing I do know is that God is not unrighteous, so if I am dead in my sin, that is the way it has to be Heb 6:10

 

[Episkopos]

There is only "the Gift of Salvation".........there is no such thing as Initial, or Progressive, or Intermittent.

Salvation is JESUS ON THE CROSS.
He finished it.
Its not "initial"...its DONE......>He said. "IT is FINISHED".
He should know.

This is just plain wrong..and you are missing what saves the soul. You are mixing up spirit and soul.

Salvation is NOT Jesus on the cross. It is Jesus resurrected. There is a big difference between a religion of death...that SO many cling to....and the spiritual resurrection walk that is according to eternal life.

What Jesus finished and perfected was the WAY of holiness...that's the "it"...that all who ABIDE in Him walk in...without sin. When we put on Christ we put on HIS perfection.

What Jesus did not accomplish was for religious posturers, speculators, and assumers, claiming His righteousness as their own for a mere mental assent...without any power over sin, the devil and this world.

To those who OVERCOME as Jesus did will He grant to rule and reign with Him.

 

[Episkopos]

Like everyone else maam, I believe I am living righteously Pro 21:2. That is why I have dedicated my life to Jehovah, and have chosen to be one of His witnesses. Jehovah's witnesses are not immune to sin, and none of us do not sin daily, as far as I know. One thing I do know is that God is not unrighteous, so if I am dead in my sin, that is the way it has to be Heb 6:10

We don't decide to be a witness of God...He does. Imagine volunteering to be a witness in a trial. Now, you will be asked what you have seen. If you answer, "well, I just wanted to be a witness..although I have seen nothing."

What kind of witness would that make you?

"You shall not bear false witness"

 

[Robert Gwin]

I have never heard one person say they were without sin.
There is a difference between without sin and committing sin.
You say you sin everyday. <— That is committing sin.

All humans are naturally born in sin.
A person Converted IN Christ, is not without sin.
A person Converted IN Christ, has forgiven sin.
A person Converted IN Christ, has covered sin.
The Covering is the Light of the Spirit of God IN a Converted person. That Light makes the mans sin so God can not anymore see that mans sin, and no more remembers that mans sin.
A person Converted IN Christ, sins no more, they Can’t.
A person Converted IN Christ, occupies Jesus’ risen body.

How be it that you are Converted, Have Gods Spirit IN You, and Continue to Sin?
Do you speak against God? Deny God? Deny Christ the Lord Jesus? Encourage people to be against the Lord God?
What are the sins you commit every day AGAINST the Lord God?

Are you Jewish, under the Law?

Puzzled you sin everyday while the Lord Gods Spirit is IN you...and you are occupying Jesus’ sinless risen body.

Expound please.
Taken

It shocked me as well Taken, it was only recently that I heard it myself, check out some of the responses in this thread. Since I have had a few since then that I have talked to that believe that, then either I just never picked up on it before, or it may be a new understanding of some faiths.

 

[Behold]

1 John 2
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Your verses have a context, and that context is not Salvation...as Salvation is not you keeping commandments.
Salvation is God on the Cross giving you "The Gift of Righteousness".

So, the CONTEXT of your verses that you dont understand... is this..


John 8:31.

A.) DISCIPLESHIP

 

[ChristisGod]

Your verses have a context, and that context is not Salvation...as Salvation is not you keeping commandments.
Salvation is God on the Cross giving you "The Gift of Righteousness".

So, the CONTEXT of your verses that you dont understand... is this..


John 8:31.

A.) DISCIPLESHIP

the whole bible is about salvation and its addressed to believers.

discipleship or being a disciple is the starting point, the beginning.

see Matthew 28:18-20
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[Johann]

And many think its when he was a pharisee under the law.

next

That aside, you think Paul claimed sinless perfection?
J.

 

[ChristisGod]

That aside, you think Paul claimed sinless perfection?
J.

no

 

[Episkopos]

Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. 12 It is not up in heaven, so that you have to ask, “Who will ascend into heaven to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 13 Nor is it beyond the sea, so that you have to ask, “Who will cross the sea to get it and proclaim it to us so we may obey it?” 14 No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

15 See, I set before you today life and prosperity, death and destruction. 16 For I command you today to love the Lord your God, to walk in obedience to him, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the Lord your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess. Deut30:11-15

I'm responding to this post because it is honest and a good comparison. We don't see such clear thinking very often here. :)

The OT is about righteousness...doing what is right with what we have been given. God doesn't judge us against what we have not been given. Now each of us has a will in the inner man, that can take a stand for God. Even though we will never do this perfectly...because of human weakness, we can still line up our ways with God's ways (albeit imperfectly)'

So then we can be righteous according to our weakness...righteous is as righteous DOES.

And this the Jews clearly understood (and understand). BUT...modern Christianity has thrown this understanding of God's ways OUT THE WINDOW...in favour of a scheme that justifies a continuing sinfulness in the weakness of the flesh..while claiming to be as righteous as God. Even the Pharisees did not go THAT far in their hypocrisy.

7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, transitory though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that brought condemnation was glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness 2Corinthians3:6-9
#
Moses told the Israelites it would not be too difficult for them to obey God's laws he gave them, it was not beyond their reach.
Yet Paul stated, the letter of the law killed, and the law was the ministry of death and condemnation. Why two completely differing views on obedience?

The NT is about holiness. To whom much is given MORE is required. The law perfected nothing as it was based on the weakness and insufficiency of the flesh.

Jesus came to show us what a perfect walk looked like...AND made a way for us to walk in Him...so that we too can fulfill the law JUST AS HE DID. The standard of the NT is perfection IN Christ. In Him is no sin.

How?

By grace through faith.

 

[Johann]

This is just plain wrong..and you are missing what saves the soul. You are mixing up spirit and soul.

Salvation is NOT Jesus on the cross. It is Jesus resurrected. There is a big difference between a religion of death...that SO many cling to....and the spiritual resurrection walk that is according to eternal life.

What Jesus finished and perfected was the WAY of holiness...that's the "it"...that all who ABIDE in Him walk in...without sin. When we put on Christ we put on HIS perfection.

What Jesus did not accomplish was for religious posturers, speculators, and assumers, claiming His righteousness as their own for a mere mental assent...without any power over sin, the devil and this world.

To those who OVERCOME as Jesus did will He grant to rule and reign with Him.

1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
1Co 15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
1Co 15:11 Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

J.

 

[Behold]

Being born of God.

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

"born of God".

See that part of the verse?
That is the Born again SPIRIT.
It "can't" sin, as it has become "ONE WITH GOD".

Now, what about your body and your mind?
Well, the body is "crucified with Christ" along with the mind, as those are the OLD MAN... = "the FLESH"
The real you, if you are born again, is the BORN AGAIN SPIRIT.
And where is that located?

= "ONE WITH GOD"..... "IN CHRIST".

 

[ChristisGod]

This is just plain wrong..and you are missing what saves the soul. You are mixing up spirit and soul.

Salvation is NOT Jesus on the cross. It is Jesus resurrected. There is a big difference between a religion of death...that SO many cling to....and the spiritual resurrection walk that is according to eternal life.

What Jesus finished and perfected was the WAY of holiness...that's the "it"...that all who ABIDE in Him walk in...without sin. When we put on Christ we put on HIS perfection.

What Jesus did not accomplish was for religious posturers, speculators, and assumers, claiming His righteousness as their own for a mere mental assent...without any power over sin, the devil and this world.

To those who OVERCOME as Jesus did will He grant to rule and reign with Him.

Great point the gospel at its core/center is the bodily Resurrection of Jesus as per 1 Corinthians 15. Paul makes the case that its the Resurrection power that gives us the victory over sin and death in Romans 6. Because of His Resurrection we walk in newness of life and we are dead to sin, buried in baptism through His death and raised to newness of life via His Resurrection from the dead. Great point !