Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[savedbygrace1]

There are many who say they are Christians, but they still sin. The Spirit is still on the outside drawing them to Jesus, but they won't repent.

If you believe you perfectly obey the letter of God's laws you are deluded and the Holy Spirit is not convicting you as a believer should be convicted

 

[ChristisGod]

There are many who say they are Christians, but they still sin. The Spirit is still on the outside drawing them to Jesus, but they won't repent.

And we know the OT saints were saved by faith but were not indwelt because the prophets declared that was in the future and not during their time.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I have already answered that though you are welcome to put me on ignore. They were filled with the Spirit on the day of pentecost, though the Spirit was with them before that according to Jesus words. And, you have stated they were in a saved stated before the day of pentecost when they were filled with the Spirit.
Should I put you on ignoire as you are not responding to your belief there are christians that are not born again

The Spirit drawing us does not mean we are saved. Show me where you answered my question, and I will apologize. The question had to do with the words in Acts 1 - baptized in the Holy Spirit, not that He is WITH us. The Spirit is omnipresent, so is everywhere, so you are hiding ignorance with many words, but avoiding the answer.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

If you believe you perfectly obey the letter of God's laws you are deluded and the Holy Spirit is not convicting you as a believer should be convicted

See. This is proof you have not read post number one. Are you here to learn more, or just teach in ignorance?

 

[ChristisGod]

If you believe you perfectly obey the letter of God's laws you are deluded and the Holy Spirit is not convicting you as a believer should be convicted

and if you are a slave to sin then sin is your master and not Christ if you sin every day, 365 days a year. That is habitual and willful sinning. scripture says those who practice sin will not enter the kingdom.

next.......

 

[savedbygrace1]

The Spirit drawing us does not mean we are saved. Show me where you answered my question, and I will apologize. The question had to do with the words in Acts 1 - baptized in the Holy Spirit, not that He is WITH us. The Spirit is omnipresent, so is everywhere, so you are hiding ignorance with many words, but avoiding the answer.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit only started at the day of pentecost. Since that time there are two seperate events. The Holy Spirit entering a person at the point of conversion, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit

 

[ChristisGod]

The baptism of the Holy Spirit only started at the day of pentecost. Since that time there are two seperate events. The Holy Spirit entering a person at the point of conversion, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit

prove its separate.

 

[savedbygrace1]

See. This is proof you have not read post number one. Are you here to learn more, or just teach in ignorance?

Sin is(not was) the transgression of the law 1John3:4
Therefore, you either perfectly obey the letter of the law or you commit sin

 

[Episkopos]

A person is justified in God's sight through faith in His Son.

Yes.

At the point of repentance and asking Christ to be their saviour a person is placed in a saved state.

Yes. They will appear before the Bema seat of Christ to be judged on a personal basis for they have done....whether good or bad.

The Holy Spirit enters their life at that point.

This is vague. Inaccuracies stem from vagueness. There are different ways the Spirit works in people. Some receive a touch from God...some are led by the Spirit...and some have a Spirit-empowered walk. Others yet are completely alien to the Holy Spirit although they have a mental assent to the works of Jesus. Most believers are marginal.

The baptism in the Holy Spirit is a seperate event

In most cases, yes.

 

[savedbygrace1]

Yes.



Yes. They will appear before the Bema seat of Christ to be judged on a personal basis for they have done....whether good or bad.




This is vague. Inaccuracies stem from vagueness. There are different ways the Spirit works in people. Some receive a touch from God...some are led by the Spirit...and some have a Spirit-empowered walk. Others yet are completely alien to the Holy Spirit although they have a mental assent to the works of Jesus. Most believers are marginal.




In most cases, yes.

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. Rom8:9

 

[Taken]

It shocked me as well Taken, it was only recently that I heard it myself, check out some of the responses in this thread. Since I have had a few since then that I have talked to that believe that, then either I just never picked up on it before, or it may be a new understanding of some faiths.

You have heard, seen people saying they are without sin on this forum?
Can you quote them?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The baptism of the Holy Spirit only started at the day of pentecost. Since that time there are two seperate events. The Holy Spirit entering a person at the point of conversion, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit

Nothing changed. So explain how the 120 spoke in tongues. The answer is in all scripture, it doesn't mean any scripture is changeable. There are only opinions that were based on the culture of the time that don't apply in other cultures and future cultures. They had to do with how the world views a Christian. But Scripture is the Word of God and doesn't change.

 

[savedbygrace1]

Nothing changed. So explain how the 120 spoke in tongues. The answer is in all scripture, it doesn't mean any scripture is changeable. There are only opinions that were based on the culture of the time, that doesn't apply in other cultures. But Scripture is the Word of God and doesn't change.

They spoke in tongues because God had already accepted them, and they were, as you stated in a saved state.
Now please answer my question. How can a person be a christian if they have not been born again?

 

[Taken]

"born of God".

See that part of the verse?
That is the Born again SPIRIT.
It "can't" sin, as it has become "ONE WITH GOD".

Now, what about your body and your mind?
Well, the body is "crucified with Christ" along with the mind, as those are the OLD MAN... = "the FLESH"
The real you, if you are born again, is the BORN AGAIN SPIRIT.
And where is that located?

= "ONE WITH GOD"..... "IN CHRIST".

I am fully aware of what born of the Spirit means.

What is this daily sin you are talking about?

 

[ScottA]

If we(John includes himself in the we) claim to be without sin(present tense) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us

We have spent a long time chatting. I think I will leave it there. I have enjoyed our discussion

Okay, but you have just come to the point: It is not "we" but Christ in us who is without sin.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You have heard, seen people saying they are without sin on this forum?
Can you quote them?

Taken your question should be about willful, knowingly sinning. Does any Christian go against their conscience? That is not of faith, and a sin.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Okay, but you have just come to the point: It is not "we" but Christ in us who is without sin.

Jesus was certainly without sin, but He demonstrated the life of a BORN AGAIN Christian. Romans 8:29 shows that Jesus was the firstborn of many brethren. That is being like Him. Only those who are actually born again obey their conscience where the laws of God are written, and are saved.

 

[savedbygrace1]

. Only those who are actually born again obey their conscience where the laws of God are written, and are saved.

So a believer must perfectly obey the law of God to be saved? For only those born again are saved. Or is there a pass mark of obedience to the law to prove you have been born again? If so, what is the pass mark?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

They spoke in tongues because God had already accepted them, and they were, as you stated in a saved state.
Now please answer my question. How can a person be a christian if they have not been born again?

See, now you are side-lining the question and answering with "accepted." Who was BAPTIZED with the Holy Spirit on the Day of Pentecost?

And I didn't say anything before about the 120 being saved before, only the 11 apostles.

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

You are fully missing the New Covenant.

Here where I live...in Canada ...the highways have both a minimum speed (60kph) and a maximum (more of a suggestion really ;) ...100kph) That is to keep traffic flowing.

If those signs could be brought back into the 1700's...people would be talking about the "spirit" of the speed limit signs...as in...keep the traffic moving. It would not be relevant to the actual letter of the signs since those speeds were unheard of at that time. If you told the people of that time that one day there would be horseless carriages that could go well beyond the speed limit of 100kph...you would get unbelief.

That very same kind of unbelief you are now exhibiting.

Fast forward until this present day...and the speed limits make perfect sense. And under the New Covenant the letter of the law makes perfect sense....now fulfilled by those who walk in the resurrection life of Christ.

it isn't God's fault that the law is eternal. AND it shows what eternal life is. What it should show us is that the grace of Christ is there to SHOW the law for what it is. By grace we ESTABLISH law and its purpose.

Unless you engage an actual faith I will stop conversing with you...I pray you come to the faith OF Christ.

This argument is pure sophistry. It implies that grace exists for people to ignore God's laws, and that isn't the least bit true. The purpose of grace is to restore a person to a right standing with God after they repent of violating His commandments. Law and grace function together because neither one of those things would have any purpose by themselves. God's commandments can't restore anybody to being in God's favor after they have violated them, and grace can't keep anyone on the path of righteousness after they are forgiven.

It's amazing how Jude wrote about deceivers infiltrating the Church with these kinds of hyper grace doctrines, and "Christians" today still subscribe to the fallacy that Paul taught people to ignore God's commandments. Paul clearly taught in Romans that the purpose of God's commandments is to give knowledge of what sin is(Rom. 7:7) so people would avoid it and quit committing it, not to point people towards grace.

Having the living faith that Christ had involves keeping His Father's commandments. You clearly don't know the difference between having the faith of Christ and having faith in Christ, so it's obvious to any knowledgeable person that you're not anywhere near being the New Covenant expert that you want to think you are. In all of the letters Paul wrote, he didn't once state or imply in any way that the role of God's commandments was to point people to grace.

The Sabbath is not really exclusively a moral law alone. At the heart, it’s a ritual law or a ceremonial law. Nobody can instinctively obey the Sabbath without God telling them about it. Moral laws are doing good instinctively without a command telling you to do it.

“For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law,…” (Romans 2:14).

The Sabbath is not a ceremonial or ritual law. Ceremonial and ritual laws were things like the incense burning, leaf sheaf waving, ritual cleansings, food and animal offerings, etc. There isn't a single NT writer that ever referred to the Sabbath being a ceremonial or ritual law, and you won't find a passage that honestly supports this false theology.

Hebrews gives a very good outline on all the things that were temporary, and the Sabbath clearly wasn't listed among them. No matter how dishonest people twist Paul's words in Hebrews, they can't make their false theology true. The Sabbath was created and codified in stone by the very hand of the Creator, and it was declared by the same Creator as being a permanent obligation for the people who are truly under covenant with Him. That is the truth.

When Paul talks about Gentiles instinctively doing what God's commandments require of them in Rom. 2:14, he was clearly referring to the last 6 commandments. Gentiles have no knowledge of God, and therefore cannot be expected to know anything about the true God or how He expects to be worshiped or loved. They can however, know that their parents should be respected, that they should not commit adultery, lie, murder, steal, or covet things that don't belong to them.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

So a believer must perfectly obey the law of God to be saved? For only those born again are saved. Or is there a pass mark of obedience to the law to prove you have been born again? If so, what is the pass mark?

Obeying your conscience, and being a slave to righteousness. 1 John 3, and Romans 6

 

[Episkopos]

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. Rom8:9

The word "belong" has to do with ownership. Most believers do not BELONG to Christ. They follow their own minds. We can follow Jesus at whatever distance we find to be comfortable to us. We are free to do as we please. There are VERY VERY few bondslaves of Christ...owned by their Master. We own ourselves for the most part. Our headship is ourselves. When we fully surrender ourselves to Christ...we are translated to walk in a heavenly abode.....with the Father. It is through resurrection life that we walk in the Spirit, and are OWNED by the Lord. Jesus said..."I ONLY do what My Father does". Can we say the same about Christ? Do we ONLY do what is by His Spirit? Only those who abide in Christ can do so.

So you have to not read in your suppositions, instead look at things in the depth of their original meaning.