The error of the Pharisee

[Prentis]

Hi all! :)

There's been some debating going on and I thought I would start a thread on this subject,

The error of the Pharisees was that they said 'we are the sons of Abraham' and they were sure they were God's children and could not be cast away. They thought they were descendants, and so it was about that. Yes, they followed the law, and by that they justified themselves.

There is this doctrine in Christianity that says 'we are Christians, belonging to Christ' and it says that those who are God's children cannot be cast away. They think it has nothing to do with how they live. Yes, they believe, and by that very thing they justify themselves.

You get were I'm going? The error of the Pharisees is not to follow the law, Jesus himself tells the rich young ruler to do it if he wishes to have life. The error is the self-justification, which we now do by our beliefs.

Yet this is completely contrary to the revelation of Christ. Christ says 'he who endures to the end, he shall be saved', and 'to he who overcomes, I will give to eat of the tree of life'. Paul says we have a run to race, and HE, yes PAUL, says 'not as though I have already attained, but I press on...'

We must endure, and work out our salvation in fear and trembling.

 

[Robbie]

The error of the Pharisees is that they didn't want to know God through Christ so they couldn't know Him... and that they thought they were going to be saved by their own righteousness...

So the error of the Pharisees was that they didn't have the truth... they didn't see the truth of their own works which were filthy rags... and they didn't see the truth of God which is perfect Love.

Self justification is not justification by believing we're only saved by the cross alone... self justification is thinking you're actually living up to a standard of righteousness that no one ever has lived up to other than Christ.

You're wrong... and you're spreading leaven... no thanks... you can keep the puffed upness...

 

[Prentis]

Self-justification, by definition, is to justifiy oneself. It is the same mistake, whether you use law or beliefs. Beliefs are just another law. "Thou shalt believe that I am the son of God, and though wilt be saved". It's a commandement, instead of being about doing a law, it's about believing something.

The OT people were saved by following the law, if did so WITHOUT justifying themselves by it, but by obedience. In the same way, Christians ARE saved by believing, if they follow what believing requires and what our Lord commands, and do not justify themselves by it.

 

[Robbie]

No dude... you're wrong... belief isn't self justification... it's just acknowledgment... it's recognizing you can't save yourself and only God can... it's like someone who can't swim... the lifeguard swims out to them and if they still think they're going to save themselves they grab onto the lifeguard and start trying to climb on them to stay above the water and by doing so only make rescue impossible.

But if you believe the lifeguard is going to save you, you relax when he gets to you and you grab the buoy he hands you because you know it's him that's going to swim you to shore. That's not self salvation... that's just revelation of self and God.

You need to realize with your puffed upness Prentis that you're falling into the same snare as the devil and the Phatisees... That's why you can't see the truth of just how wretched you are... and how much God loves you despite that... and that's why you're still afraid of Him... but I'm sure you'll defend your being right-eous till you're blue in the face...

 

[Prentis]

It is, that's true. Until you use it to claim you're saved eternally and with certainty! :)

It's an amazing thing to me how we can look at the parable of the publican and the Pharisee, and say 'Thank God I'm not like the Pharisee, I don't justify myself by following the law'. The man just echoed the saying of the Pharisee, and justifies himself by his belief, which amounts to the same transgression.

No man can justify himself, only God can justify him.

 

[Robbie]

Then stop looking at the Pharisee and saying that...

And yes... I am assured forever and ever of my salvation... all glory to Jesus!!!

 

[Prentis]

Then stop looking at the Pharisee and saying that...

And yes... I am assured forever and ever of my salvation... all glory to Jesus!!!

Modern Christianity looks at the Pharisee and does that when it says "I trust in Jesus, now I'm forever sayed", and by the same it denies his commandments. :)

 

[Robbie]

Are you serious? Wow man.. you are far off...

I'm not saying it's my trust in Jesus that saves me...

I'm saying Jesus saves me and in that I trust...

You're so desperate to be right because of ego and pride man...

I think I'm done... you can't hear it... you just want to justify yourself... something you'll never accomplish...

 

[Prentis]

The Lord bless you, brother. :)

 

[Shirley]

Prentis- I do not see you as puffed up or proud or egotistical. I see you as a man who loves God with all his heart and desires to be the best servant he can be. Be encouraged dear brother!

 

[Robbie]

Encouraging someone isn't telling them what a godly person they're being as their telling someone that they don't have assurance of salvation in Christ because they have to add being good enough to the cross... that's enabling someone and puffing them up as they fall from grace...

I'm encouraging Prentis by putting up with him and continuing to try and correct him...

But if you don't want to hear it Prentis say the word and I'll quit telling you anything...

 

[Prentis]

Prentis- I do not see you as puffed up or proud or egotistical. I see you as a man who loves God with all his heart and desires to be the best servant he can be. Be encouraged dear brother!

Thanks for the encouragment, sister. Your gentleness and love is a blessing and an example to the body of believers! :)

Encouraging someone isn't telling them what a godly person they're being as their telling someone that they don't have assurance of salvation in Christ because they have to add being good enough to the cross... that's enabling someone and puffing them up as they fall from grace...

I'm encouraging Prentis by putting up with him and continuing to try and correct him...

But if you don't want to hear it Prentis say the word and I'll quit telling you anything...

Brother, I don't mind going back and forth with you, and am not deterred. But I do stand by what I have said to this moment. :)

May the Lord bless you!

 

[Robbie]

I gotta be honest and tell you that every time you write, "May the Lord bless you" while at the same time you're telling me that by His blood I don't have assurance of salvation... it feels like you're basically trying to deceive me with a kiss...

 

[Prentis]

I gotta be honest and tell you that every time you write, "May the Lord bless you" while at the same time you're telling me that by His blood I don't have assurance of salvation... it feels like you're basically trying to deceive me with a kiss...

I am not my, brother. If you would believe my honesty, I am trying to tell you that we can indeed move forward to walk in the same life Christ did and be conformed to him, and that he can transform us into his liking by the new creation.

If we endure and persevere, and show ourselves worthy, we will get to share in his glory! Only we must show ourselves worthy, and we must run the race, that we may attain the prize! I tell you this because I have the same hope for you as I do for me, that we might become like the Lord, by his power, and for his glory! :)

 

[Robbie]

Hey man... God's done a lot of work on me... but that has nothing to do with salvation... that has to do with Him working on me... and I welcome that... but that has nothing to do with my salvation... my salvation is because when God looks at me He sees Christ's righteousness...

I will not add anything to that ever... in doing so I would fall from grace... and no longer feel like my salvation was assured by His blood alone... I would once again be cursed...

I will not do that and I will fight the good fight against anyone who want to tempt me with pride and ego into such falsehood...

 

[Prentis]

Again, it comes back to the same thing...

Do we have to endure, as it says? There is a free gift, that is the forgiveness of our past life and new life, Christ in us. But that new life and that free gift is a tool, not an end, so that we can become like him.

If a man hires you, and gives you a shovel, and you sit on it all day, he will fire you!

God is just, and we make it a lie when we say that 'to who much is given, nothing is required'.

The more we have received, the more we are responsible for.

 

[Robbie]

I am enduring... I'm enduring against you right now as you continue to deny that I have assurance of salvation in the blood of Jesus Christ...

 

[Prentis]

To endure in saying one is saved does not make one any more or less 'saved'. The fact of the matter is, salavation has NOTHING do wo with us justifying ourselves.

We are to endure in the same way as him. Men try to save their lives, get assurance, or 'fire insurance'... But that is not how God works; he says 'lose your life and you will find it'.

To whom much is given... Except nodoby believes that anymore!

And 'woe is me if I do not preach the Gospel'. But no one believes that either.

We have taught a God that somehow changed. He didn't. All reap what they sow (yes, it's in the NT also).

When Jesus says 'deny me before men, and I will deny you before the Father', no one believes him anymore.

 

[Robbie]

I'm not enduring in saying anything... I'm enduring by continuing to lay no other foundation than Christ... to trust in no other way of salvation than Him...

And settle down with the, "No one this" and the "No one that" this is a big planet for you to be talking about, "No one" and who are you? The one who's got it all right and "No one" else does?

And are you including me in the, "No one believes Him anymore" about confessing Him before man?... I'm confessing Jesus before men... I'm confessing Him before you... I'm giving Him all the glory for salvation...

Disagreeing with you isn't denying Him... especially when it's you that's saying there's no assurance in His blood for salvation...

Check yo self...

 

[Prentis]

I don't mean it in the sense of making judgment on an individual. Only the church generally doesn't believe what he has said, or walk in it. :)

Blessings