Saying you are without sin verses in 1 John

[Michiah-Imla]

the Greek order

the Greek is perfect tense

Dozens of expert translators already solved the “Greek” barrier for me in the King James Bible.

You need to remove whatever barriers lead you to unwisely meddle with things to high for you.

 

[Johann]

That is contrary to Scripture when it commands believers to be and do just the opposite.


Jesus teaching

Matthew 7:21
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Luke 6:46
Why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' but not do what I say?

Luke 11:28
Blessed are those who hear the word of God and obey it

John 8:31
If you hold to My teaching you are truly My disciples

John 15:14
You are My friends if you do what I command you

John 13:17
If you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

John 14:15
If you love Me you will keep My commandments

John the disciple whom Jesus loved teaching:

1 John 2
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, 5 but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may know that we are in him: 6 whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

1 John 2
Whoever says he is in the light and hates his brother is still in darkness. 10 Whoever loves his brother abides in the light, and in him there is no cause for stumbling. 11 But whoever hates his brother is in the darkness and walks in the darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

1 John 2
If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of him.

1 John 3
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. 5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him; and he cannot keep on sinning, because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

1 John 4
If anyone says, “I love God,” and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen. 21 And this commandment we have from him: whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1 John 5
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome. 4 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith

Paul's teaching:

Shall we continue in sin that grace might abound ? May it NEVER be !

Galatians 5
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

1 Corinthians 6
Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Colossians 3
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

Ephesians 2
As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our flesh and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature deserving of wrath.

Titus 2:11-15
11 For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men, 12 instructing us to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we would live soberly, righteously, and godly in this present age; 13 looking for the blessed hope and appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity and purify for himself a people for his own possession, zealous for good works. 15 Say these things and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one despise you.


Peters Teaching

1 Peter 1
Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: “Be holy, because I am holy.”

1 Peter 4
As a result, they do not live the rest of their earthly lives for evil human desires, but rather for the will of God. 3 For you have spent enough time in the past doing what pagans choose to do—living in debauchery, lust, drunkenness, orgies, carousing and detestable idolatry. 4 They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you.

2 Peter 1:3-11
His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4 Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature, having escaped the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6 and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7 and to godliness, mutual affection; and to mutual affection, love. 8 For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But whoever does not have them is nearsighted and blind, forgetting that they have been cleansed from their past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers and sisters, make every effort to confirm your calling and election. For if you do these things, you will never stumble, 11 and you will receive a rich welcome into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

hope this helps !!!

Right, lot of scripture, now lets see how you exegete it.
Are these scriptures referring to or advocating sinless perfection since not even Paul reached that?

J.

 

[Episkopos]

You have just redefined scripture.


cannot sin, because he is born of God — “because it is of God that he is born” (so the Greek order, as compared with the order of the same words in the beginning of the verse); not “because he was born of God” (the Greek is perfect tense, which is present in meaning, not aorist); it is not said, Because a man was once for all born of God he never afterwards can sin; but, Because he is born of God, the seed abiding now in Him, he cannot sin; so long as it energetically abides, sin can have no place. Compare Gen_39:9, Joseph, “How CAN I do this great wickedness and sin against God?”

The principle within me is at utter variance with it. The regenerate life is incompatible with sin, and gives the believer a hatred for sin in every shape, and an unceasing desire to resist it. “The child of God in this conflict receives indeed wounds daily, but never throws away his arms or makes peace with his deadly foe” [Luther].

The exceptional sins into which the regenerate are surprised, are owing to the new life principle being for a time suffered to lie dormant, and to the sword of the Spirit not being drawn instantly. Sin is ever active, but no longer reigns. The normal direction of the believer’s energies is against sin; the law of God after the inward man is the ruling principle of his true self though the old nature, not yet fully deadened, rebels and sins.

Contrast 1Jn_5:18 with Joh_8:34; compare Psa_18:22, Psa_18:23; Psa_32:2, Psa_32:3; Psa_119:113, Psa_119:176. The magnetic needle, the nature of which is always to point to the pole, is easily turned aside, but always reseeks the pole.
Jamieson Fausset Brown.

Tell me what you think sanctification is.
When did it happen? Is it ongoing, progressive?
Why the need for sanctification if you are already sinless?

J.

You are missing the power of the gospel. Sanctification is instant by abiding in Christ. No one learns how to be holy. Being holy is being in God....there is no other way. Only God is holy. To be holy you have to be IN Him. In Him is no sin.

You will have to seek and pray much harder...

 

[Johann]

Dozens of expert translators already solved the “Greek” barrier for me in the King James Bible.

You need to remove whatever barriers lead you to unwisely meddle with things to high for you.

I will stress Greek with you from now on, whether you like it or not.
J.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

I will stress Greek with you from now on, whether you like it or not.
J.

ATTENTION ALL FORUM MEMBERS!!

@Johann will reveal to us hidden things in the Greek that many translators weren’t able to reveal to us.

@Johann please continue…

 

[ChristisGod]

Right, lot of scripture, now lets see how you exegete it.
Are these scriptures referring to or advocating sinless perfection since not even Paul reached that?

J.

No I have said numerous times we do not become sinless.

And where do any of the NT writers themselves as sinners in the present and where they commit acts of sin after Pentecost when they were filled with the spirit. And Romans 7 can be understood when Paul was under the law as a pharisee trying to please God. So arguing that and the 1 Timothy verse ripped fro its context as the "chief of sinners" doesn't hold water since the verses prior to that one mention he was a persecutor of the church a blasphemer and a man of anger.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Johann]

You are missing the power of the gospel. Sanctification is instant by abiding in Christ. No one learns how to be holy. Being holy is being in God....there is no other way. Only God is holy. To be holy you have to be IN Him. In Him is no sin.

You will have to seek and pray much harder...

And you brother, need to reread scriptures since time has been shortened, especially on the topic justification and sanctification.
J.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

And you brother, need to reread scriptures since time has been shortened, especially on the topic justification and sanctification.
J.

No, he needs your expert Greek tutelage…

 

[Johann]

ATTENTION ALL FORUM MEMBERS!!

@Johann will reveal to us hidden things in the Greek that many translators weren’t able to reveal to us.

@Johann please continue…

What would you "like" to discuss?
J.

 

[Episkopos]

And you brother, need to reread scriptures since time has been shortened, especially on the topic justification and sanctification.
J.

You can lead a horse to water..... :)

 

[Johann]

No, he needs your expert Greek tutelage…

Well, if you are going to continue trolling me, on ignore you will go, my prerogative since I am not here for you, oh sinless one.

τότε εἴρηκεν· ἰδοὺ ἥκω τοῦ ποιῆσαι, ὁ Θεός, τὸ θέλημά σου. ἀναιρεῖ τὸ πρῶτον ἵνα τὸ δεύτερον στήσῃ.

Hopefully Google Translator will come in handy or..

Heb 10:9 Then he said, "I have come LA'ASOT RETZONECHAH ("to do your will.") He takes away HaRishonah (the way of the zevakhim of the kehunah of Levi) in order to establish HaSheniyah (the way of the zevach of the kehunah of Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach).
OJB

...or...


τοτεG5119 ADV ειρηκενG2046 V-RAI-3S-ATT ιδουG3708 V-2AAM-2S ηκωG2240 V-PAI-1S τουG3588 T-GSN ποιησαιG4160 V-AAN τοG3588 T-ASN θελημαG2307 N-ASN σουG4771 P-2GS αναιρειG337 V-PAI-3S τοG3588 T-ASN πρωτονG4413 A-ASN-S ιναG2443 CONJ τοG3588 T-ASN δευτερονG1208 A-ASN στησηG2476 V-AAS-3S

Happy huntin'
J.

 

[Taken]

He recanted anyway Taken, and stated there was not a day goes by in which he doesn't sin. Let me see if I can find another. Check out Post #8 sir, Behold is indicating he is without sin.
Behold Well-Known Member
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Robert Gwin said: ↑
You would literally be surprised at the number of people who actually say they are without sin
1st John says the born again have no sin... in Chapter 3

If you look at verses 5 and 9, he says "in Christ there is no Sin"......and all the born again are 'IN CHRIST"

Look at 5, . ""'in HIM is NO SIN"..

See that?
The OP of this Thread will never see that....cannot.

Look at verse 9...that confirms vs 5.. "whoever is BORN OF GOD (born again) Does NOT SIN".

"does not sin".

Why?
Verse 5... 'IN HIM....(where the born again exist.... IS NO SIN"..

The born again are IN CHRIST, and "IN Christ there is no sin".

Thank you.
The verse in point...is specific...”HE WHO SAYS He HAS No SIN”.

1 John 1:
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Listen carefully to what @Behold ... does say.
“Does not sin”
“In Christ there is no Sin”.
“Born again have no sin”.

I will say this...I Can NOT SIN.

The REASON I Can NOT SIN, IS expressly BECAUSE of the Lord Gods Works IN ME.

No one is SAYING a man HAS no sin.
Naturally born men......ARE BORN IN SIN.
A naturally born man, who says HE HAS NO SIN, is not a man who CALLS on the Lord God, to Forgive his sin.
CALLS on the Lord God, to GIVE his sinful body crucified with Christ.
CALLS on the Lord God, to Save his soul.
CALLS on the Lord God, to Rebirth his spirit.

Behold has expressly already revealed, His natural body WAS SINFUL AGAINST GOD......AND Behold choose to do something ABOUT IT!

WHAT Behold choose to DO ABOUT His natural sinful body...
CAUSED him to BECOME FREE FROM SIN, by Gods Grace, Gods Power, Gods Faithfulness, Gods Truth, Gods Works.

I can NOT SIN. Because of the SAME reasons. MY natural flesh body was BORN IN SIN.....I gave my natural Flesh body, crucified with Christ.
My natural flesh body, IS “according to God”, ACCOUNTED DEAD...
AND cleansed, AND sanctified, AND covered, AND justified, AND kept preserved BY the Lord.....UNTO the Day He Calls my BODY up to Him...
AND the RAISING up of my BODY, is BY His Power, to RAISE my BODY “without SIN”. I simply wait for THAT raising of my body “without SIN”.
Meantime....Christ Jesus, Already RISEN IN Glory...has Given me “HIS BODY”, to dwell IN, until the day, the Lord calls MY BODY “in Glory”, Up to Him.

Certainly “I CAN NOT SIN”......ANY MORE.
“I CAN NOT SIN..any more”....BECAUSE I GAVE my NATURAL FLESH BODY to DEATH...crucified with Christ Jesus.

How does a DEAD FLESH BODY, continue to commit SIN?
It doesn’t.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Well, if you are going to continue trolling me, on ignore you will go, my prerogative since I am not here for you, oh sinless one.

τότε εἴρηκεν· ἰδοὺ ἥκω τοῦ ποιῆσαι, ὁ Θεός, τὸ θέλημά σου. ἀναιρεῖ τὸ πρῶτον ἵνα τὸ δεύτερον στήσῃ.

Hopefully Google Translator will come in handy or..

Heb 10:9 Then he said, "I have come LA'ASOT RETZONECHAH ("to do your will.") He takes away HaRishonah (the way of the zevakhim of the kehunah of Levi) in order to establish HaSheniyah (the way of the zevach of the kehunah of Rebbe, Melech HaMoshiach).
OJB

...or...


τοτεG5119 ADV ειρηκενG2046 V-RAI-3S-ATT ιδουG3708 V-2AAM-2S ηκωG2240 V-PAI-1S τουG3588 T-GSN ποιησαιG4160 V-AAN τοG3588 T-ASN θελημαG2307 N-ASN σουG4771 P-2GS αναιρειG337 V-PAI-3S τοG3588 T-ASN πρωτονG4413 A-ASN-S ιναG2443 CONJ τοG3588 T-ASN δευτερονG1208 A-ASN στησηG2476 V-AAS-3S

Happy huntin'
J.

Thank God for the King James Bible that rids me out of the hands of men!

 

[Johann]

You can lead a horse to water..... :)

Thank you.
The verse in point...is specific...”HE WHO SAYS He HAS No SIN”.

1 John 1:
[8] If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

Listen carefully to what @Behold ... does say.
“Does not sin”
“In Christ there is no Sin”.
“Born again have no sin”.

I will say this...I Can NOT SIN.

The REASON I Can NOT SIN, IS expressly BECAUSE of the Lord Gods Works IN ME.

No one is SAYING a man HAS no sin.
Naturally born men......ARE BORN IN SIN.
A naturally born man, who says HE HAS NO SIN, is not a man who CALLS on the Lord God, to Forgive his sin.
CALLS on the Lord God, to GIVE his sinful body crucified with Christ.
CALLS on the Lord God, to Save his soul.
CALLS on the Lord God, to Rebirth his spirit.

Behold has expressly already revealed, His natural body WAS SINFUL AGAINST GOD......AND Behold choose to do something ABOUT IT!

WHAT Behold choose to DO ABOUT His natural sinful body...
CAUSED him to BECOME FREE FROM SIN, by Gods Grace, Gods Power, Gods Faithfulness, Gods Truth, Gods Works.

I can NOT SIN. Because of the SAME reasons. MY natural flesh body was BORN IN SIN.....I gave my natural Flesh body, crucified with Christ.
My natural flesh body, IS “according to God”, ACCOUNTED DEAD...
AND cleansed, AND sanctified, AND covered, AND justified, AND kept preserved BY the Lord.....UNTO the Day He Calls my BODY up to Him...
AND the RAISING up of my BODY, is BY His Power, to RAISE my BODY “without SIN”. I simply wait for THAT raising of my body “without SIN”.
Meantime....Christ Jesus, Already RISEN IN Glory...has Given me “HIS BODY”, to dwell IN, until the day, the Lord calls MY BODY “in Glory”, Up to Him.

Certainly “I CAN NOT SIN”......ANY MORE.
“I CAN NOT SIN..any more”....BECAUSE I GAVE my NATURAL FLESH BODY to DEATH...crucified with Christ Jesus.

How does a DEAD FLESH BODY, continue to commit SIN?
It doesn’t.

So you are incapable to commit a misdeed in word, thought and deed?
Correct?!
J.

 

[ChristisGod]

And you brother, need to reread scriptures since time has been shortened, especially on the topic justification and sanctification.
J.

We are justified at salvation and sanctified.

hagiasmos- the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

1 Corinthians 1:30
And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption

Romans 6:19-22
I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;

1 Peter 1:2
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

 

[Johann]

We are justified at salvation and sanctified.

hagiasmos- the process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.

2 Thessalonians 2:13
But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.

1 Corinthians 1:30
And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption

Romans 6:19-22
I am speaking in human terms, because of your natural limitations. For just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification. But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;

1 Peter 1:2
according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

 

[Taken]

How dangerous is sin-perfectionism?

Gal 3:
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Heb 10:
[14] For by one offering he hath perfect-ED for ever them that are sanctified.

Heb 12:
[23] To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect...


IF you desire to TO NOT BECOME “PERFECTED IN CHRIST”...
That is YOUR choice.

AS WELL, it is OTHER’S Choice TO BECOME “PERFECTED IN CHIRST”.

IF you desire to remain in the “generally assembly”, that is your choice.
Some men choose to be MADE PERFECTED, IN Christ, “IN Christ’s Church”.

You seem to be promoting, perfected IN Christ, is a dangerous choice, and wondering how dangerous that choice is.

 

[Johann]

1 Thessalonians 4:3
For this is the will of God, your sanctification: that you abstain from sexual immorality;

Now, let's see here, especially to the sinless ones...

απεχεσθαιG567 V-PMN υμαςG4771 P-2AP αποG575 PREP ...Definite Article...the porneias...G3588 T-GSF πορνειαςG4202 N-GSF

Middle voice (reflexive) of G568; to hold oneself off, that is, refrain: - abstain....this is understandable

Buy why is porneias
Noun
Case: Genative (possession, "of"; also origin or separation, "from")
Number: Singular
Gender: Feminine...and here it is not the feminine gender, but note the Genitive..in context, to believers, yet porneias is Genitive of possession, and yet the sinless ones are ABOVE this?

Thanks for the post, just thinking out loud.
J.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

IF you desire to TO NOT BECOME “PERFECTED IN CHRIST”...

I said no such thing.

AS WELL, it is OTHER’S Choice TO BECOME “PERFECTED IN CHIRST”.

Yes, ok.

You seem to be promoting, perfected IN Christ, is a dangerous choice

Not at all, for:

“…by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.” (Hebrews 10:14)

But these SAME perfected ones are also warned IN THE SAME CHAPTER that:

“…if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” (Hebrews 10:26-27)

 

[Michiah-Imla]

απεχεσθαιG567 V-PMN υμαςG4771 P-2AP αποG575 PREP ...Definite Article

Middle voice (reflexive)

Genitive..in context,

You are in the wrong chat board.

I’m sure there’s a forum out there somewhere where you can discuss the intricacies of ancient languages.

But This is a Bible chat board.