Being 'Born Again'

[MatthewG]

Here is a few more questions.

This is a focus on what happens when we are born again.

1. What becomes 'new' ??? From with-in when accepting the death, burial, and resurrection - a new creation is made, a new spiritual creation and the the new spiritual creation is different than the natural spirit of Man. Where by the natural spirit of Man we understand the world around us. When being born from above a new spiritual nature has become active from being previously dead to the spiritual. This is what is new, now though we live in our flesh and understand the flesh and the world around us by the spirit of man, you now have a new created spiritual man or woman with-in your heart where God is now starting to work on your heart and mind as you allow him to by your free will to choose to pray, and seek God in faith.

2. What happens to our sin from that point on ???

All sin was paid for on the Cross. - Sin is missing the mark, all human beings miss the mark, Jesus on behalf of the world paid for all humans missing the mark - so Sin? That was taken care of when he died on the cross, once and for all people, then he was buried, and resurrected.

3. Is our salvation 'recorded' ??? That is a good question, but one should know that their salvation is in Christ Jesus,... I believe there were people who were written in the book of life (and waiting for the arrival of Christ in their day in time) - which dealt with the nation of Israel, and there were people already written in the book of life according to what some of the letters mention. A good bible study would be looking up the book of life. You can know you are participating in the born from above experience when you are praying in your heart to God, and asking God to help you and guide you by the holy spirit.

I could be wrong but this just my view.

4. What is our new spiritual status ??? There are two states, the first status is Children of God being adopted by the Father in heaven. The second status is suffering for Christ Sake - becoming a Son or Daughter of God. (Growth from a seed to a tree - from a child to an adult mature in faith).

5. What keeps us saved ???

Continuing faith in Christ, looking towards him every day, minute by minute, hour by hour. In his death, burial, and resurrection. Drink my blood, eat my flesh Jesus said.

Hard to do, but that is to accept his death, and to follow what he had shared and showed us which was the way, the truth, and the life.

6. Should we be immediately baptised ???

Water baptism is cool. Those who are born from above, are baptized by Jesus when they accept in their heart they believe by faith in which Jesus Christ had done which was to reconcile all of us to God and we can have relationship with the Father and pray to the Father in Jesus name, asking for help by the holy spirit/spirit of Christ.

7. What does baptism achieve that being born again didnt ???

They are one in the same to me. Water baptism the natural part which the spirit of man/woman understand doesn't do anything, but the one who believes in the heart, they become baptised by the holy spirit and fire according to what John the baptist had stated.

 

[MatthewG]

OK someone comes to you with no biblical knowledge saying they had a dream about Jesus and are fully convinced they must become a Christian and they are clearly under conviction.

How would you guide them to becoming born again?

Remember they are unfamiliar with Christian language and culture.

What then are the fundamental steps needed to become born again?

Encourage them to pray to the FAther, and for all friends, families, and just pray to the Father in Jesus name, and seek out God with all their heart and ask to be lead by the holy spirit that always causes good things to come, even long-suffering.

 

[Episkopos]

1. The birth from above is a spiritual birth into the eternal reality of the kingdom of God.

2. It is by the will of God not by the will of a person who makes a decision to "get saved" by accepting a salvation scheme.

3. It's a God thing not a man thing. No one votes their way into the kingdom. God has to accept the pleas and sacrifices of people for entrance into the spiritual walk in Christ.

4. It has to do with a spiritual race not just salvation. People can inherit salvation without being born again.

5. Most people who will be saved are not born again. Far fewer will be called into the high calling in Christ through the spiritual birth in Zion.

6. Jesus didn't say "unless you are born again you cannot be saved" as people have twisted Jesus words to mean. Jesus said unless you are made alive to the eternal reality of the kingdom realm (born from above) you cannot have spiritual faculties like seeing (or perceiving) eternal things. Jesus was stating the practical and obvious thing to someone who was spiritually dead and blind.

7. We will be judged by our works not by a religious status. A born again person has a chance to rule and reign with Christ IF he/she is faithful at that level of calling.

8. We can follow Christ at various distances. Most follow from a great distance. Whatever is comfortable to people.

9. Our salvation is dependent on OUR righteousness..what we have done with what we have been given (for entrance into the nations that are saved in the next age) AND walking under the covering of God's righteousness (for those who will rule and reign with Christ as the Bride OVER the nations). The latter is only available to those who have been born from above.

10. Not ALL those who have received the initial grace (at new birth) will move into the full measure of grace. Not everyone that begins a race wins the race. According to the Bible only half do so. (10 virgins, one taken, one left behind__parable of the talents and pounds)

11. All who trust in Christ and obey Him will be saved if they remain steadfast in their devotion till the end. Humility and the fear of the Lord (esteeming others as higher) is necessary to have a righteousness that exceeds that of the religious Pharisees.

 

[Carl Emerson]

OK is this exercise helpful ???

On the relationship between being born again and being baptised, I can say the following.

Being born again relates to a commitment

Being Baptised in water relates to a witness and renunciation.

I don't see clear record of this point in Scripture but the following is worthy of note.

Back in the day when Floyd McClung opened a series of open houses on the drug trail from Amsterdam to Kabul he noticed that the spiritual opposition to his mission was always most intense, not when folks were born again, but when they were baptised in water.

It is also noted that Doctors applying for jobs in the Middle East had to submit a baptism certificate. Many unbelieving doctors went to liturgical churches and got 'sprinkled' to meet this requirement.

So the authorities in Saudi Arabia would only accept 'Christians' and they looked for Baptism as evidence.

Lastly in Asia the point at which believers are excommunicated from their families is not when they are born again, but rather when they are baptised.

So from the perspective that our spiritual opposition has a greater recognition for baptism then, this is the step affecting their destructive agenda the most.

I therefore conclude that baptism is not just a declaration of allegiance to Christ but a declaration to the demonic that thier hold on that life is broken.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Most people who will be saved are not born again. Far fewer will be called into the high calling in Christ through the spiritual birth in Zion.

Would you like to expand on this point please?

 

[Pearl]

When ???

@Carl Emerson your question was When were the apostles born again?

My answer is that for them it was the same as it is for us - when they turned from their old lives and decided to follow Jesus.

 

[Carl Emerson]

@Carl Emerson your question was When were the apostles born again?

My answer is that for them it was the same as it is for us - when they turned from their old lives and decided to follow Jesus.

So was this when they responded to His call to follow ?

If so this was before they received the Holy Spirit ??

 

[Pearl]

So was this when they responded to His call to follow ?

That is what I said. He called and they chose of their own free wills to follow. Nobody force them. They just answered Jesus call. And those of us who are truly born again heard his call and also responded of our own free will and chose to follow him.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That is what I said. He called and they chose of their own free wills to follow. Nobody force them. They just answered Jesus call. And those of us who are truly born again heard his call and also responded of our own free will and chose to follow him.

Did they receive the holy Spirit when they were born again, or did He come later ???

 

[MatthewG]

OK is this exercise helpful ???

On the relationship between being born again and being baptised, I can say the following.

Being born again relates to a commitment

Being Baptised in water relates to a witness and renunciation.

I don't see clear record of this point in Scripture but the following is worthy of note.

Back in the day when Floyd McClung opened a series of open houses on the drug trail from Amsterdam to Kabul he noticed that the spiritual opposition to his mission was always most intense, not when folks were born again, but when they were baptised in water.

It is also noted that Doctors applying for jobs in the Middle East had to submit a baptism certificate. Many unbelieving doctors went to liturgical churches and got 'sprinkled' to meet this requirement.

So the authorities in Saudi Arabia would only accept 'Christians' and they looked for Baptism as evidence.

Lastly in Asia the point at which believers are excommunicated from their families is not when they are born again, but rather when they are baptised.

So from the perspective that our spiritual opposition has a greater recognition for baptism then, this is the step affecting their destructive agenda the most.

I therefore conclude that baptism is not just a declaration of allegiance to Christ but a declaration to the demonic that thier hold on that life is broken.

Yes Carl it is helpful, thank you for the questions. That is interesting if that is what is happening today, as people do - try to put a lot of emphasis on 'water baptism', and really it is about the in-ward regeneration of the soul being connected by the holy spirit given by through Christ Jesus.

 

[Pearl]

Did they receive the holy Spirit when they were born again, or did He come later ???

No they didn't. But. like us, they could not have been born again without the influence of the Holy Spirit prompting them to choose Jesus.

It's Pentecost Sunday today the day we celebrate the coming of the Holy Spirit to the followers of Jesus. If you know your bible you will remember that the Holy spirit came upon them like flames of fire when the followers of Jesus were all gathered together. And that was the birth of the one true Church. Jesus followers were then quickened by the Holy Spirit and began to preach the gospel to outsiders.

I hope that is sufficient answer for you @Carl Emerson.

 

[Episkopos]

Would you like to expand on this point please?

Sure. The New Testament is not about taking a whole nation into the Promised Land. Only a few will be able to enter into the kingdom. God is merciful and fair...but the high calling is according to a holy standard that is beyond the faith of most people. Most people do not believe that through Christ ALL things are possible. I have not found many believers who trust in God's grace like that. It takes a child-like faith to do so.

The New Testament is an invitation into holiness for the few and righteousness for the many. There was always just a remnant that were able to abide the truth at the holiness level...always was this way...even when Israel was limited to a physical nation. Not all who are in Israel are OF Israel.

The same goes for us Christians. Not all who are IN Christ abide in Christ. Only a remnant.

Nobody entered into the eternal realm of the Spirit in the OT yet there are many saved from that time.

What we have in the NT is something unique and specific. A call to walk as Jesus walked. To walk in His footsteps, in His resurrection life and power.

There are two callings:
1. Go into the highways and byways and call the bad and good to come as GUESTS for the marriage feast of the Lamb. These are NOT saints. They are churchgoers...not disciples of Christ. MOST believers are of this kind.

2. There is also the HIGH CALLING in Christ. A call into the full stature of Christ in character. We are born from above into the race of faith...the new birth as an initial step by grace as a gift from God. The training is by a anointing covering of the righteousness of God..that makes us walk PERFECTLY as Jesus did (when we go to Him for the full measure of grace). When we put on Christ we put on HIS perfection. In Him is no sin. To carnal people this will sound ridiculous, of course. That's why spiritual discernment becomes easy. Just ask someone if they can do ALL things through Christ. Unbelief is rampant in the man-made religious institutions that POSE as NT churches...but really they are a place for guests. (Not that this is bad...just becomes pretentious because of a lack of truth, humility and fear of the Lord. The proud and assuming ones among the guests are rejected by taking too high a place for themselves. There are many of these. And you can't warn them...they are so religiously certain of their greatness.

There are SO FEW who have faith that believes the spiritual walk in the kingdom realm of Zion to be even possible. So we see whether a person is born from above or not by their response to the high calling. To those called as guests the spiritual walk seems like foolishness and make-believe. So is raising the dead.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No they didn't. But. like us, they could not have been born again without the influence of the Holy Spirit prompting them to choose Jesus.

It's Pentecost Sunday today the day we celebrate the coming of the Holy Spirit to the followers of Jesus. If you know your bible you will remember that the Holy spirit came upon them like flames of fire when the followers of Jesus were all gathered together. And that was the birth of the one true Church. Jesus followers were then quickened by the Holy Spirit and began to preach the gospel to outsiders.

I hope that is sufficient answer for you @Carl Emerson.

They also received the holy spirit within when He breathed on them.

 

[Carl Emerson]

OK can we focus on the critical point so far which is the need to surrender your will to God to be born again.

If not He can not work His works through you because you have not given Him permission.

 

[Pearl]

They also received the holy spirit within when He breathed on them.

@Carl Emerson When did he breathe on them?

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

1. The birth from above is a spiritual birth into the eternal reality of the kingdom of God.

2. It is by the will of God not by the will of a person who makes a decision to "get saved" by accepting a salvation scheme.

3. It's a God thing not a man thing. No one votes their way into the kingdom. God has to accept the pleas and sacrifices of people for entrance into the spiritual walk in Christ.

4. It has to do with a spiritual race not just salvation. People can inherit salvation without being born again.

5. Most people who will be saved are not born again. Far fewer will be called into the high calling in Christ through the spiritual birth in Zion.

6. Jesus didn't say "unless you are born again you cannot be saved" as people have twisted Jesus words to mean. Jesus said unless you are made alive to the eternal reality of the kingdom realm (born from above) you cannot have spiritual faculties like seeing (or perceiving) eternal things. Jesus was stating the practical and obvious thing to someone who was spiritually dead and blind.

7. We will be judged by our works not by a religious status. A born again person has a chance to rule and reign with Christ IF he/she is faithful at that level of calling.

8. We can follow Christ at various distances. Most follow from a great distance. Whatever is comfortable to people.

9. Our salvation is dependent on OUR righteousness..what we have done with what we have been given (for entrance into the nations that are saved in the next age) AND walking under the covering of God's righteousness (for those who will rule and reign with Christ as the Bride OVER the nations). The latter is only available to those who have been born from above.

10. Not ALL those who have received the initial grace (at new birth) will move into the full measure of grace. Not everyone that begins a race wins the race. According to the Bible only half do so. (10 virgins, one taken, one left behind__parable of the talents and pounds)

11. All who trust in Christ and obey Him will be saved if they remain steadfast in their devotion till the end. Humility and the fear of the Lord (esteeming others as higher) is necessary to have a righteousness that exceeds that of the religious Pharisees.

I would agree with:
#1 (but I suspect you are not sure of how or when this happens, or if it has happened to you;
#2 (the first part - but then you add this resentment and lack of humility with the Body of Christ, whom God uses to participate in the salvation process by orchestrating his plan(not scheme)_ in a unique way_ for each individual.
#11 (the first sentence is good then in the second sentence you imply that man's righteousness needs to be greater than the Pharisees. It is NOT our righteousness, it is Christ's righteousness that saves. His righteousness is imputed to us. He did the work in the cross, His blood sacrifice is sufficient.
#3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are just wrong.
>>>Actually Pearl answered the questions correctly for the most part ... if you want to know the truth.
Your false theology is from a Non-Trinitarian/ salvation by works viewpoint. Being born again is _ I believe _ something you have not yet experienced, so you should not attempt to explain it. I am sorry, I have to be blunt. I am sure Carl will be more gentle.

 

[Episkopos]

I would agree with #1 (but I suspect you are not sure of how or when this happens, ir if it has happened ti you; #2 (the first part - but then you add this resentment and lack of humility with the Body of Christ, whom God uses to participate in the salvation process by orchestrating his plan(not scheme)_ in a unique way_ for each individual.
#11 (first sentence is good then in the second sentence you imply that man's righteousness needs to be greater than the Pharisees. It is NOT our righteousness, it is Christ's righteousness that saves. His righteousness is imputed to us. He did the work in the cross, His blood sacrifice is sufficient.
#3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 are just wrong. Actually Pearl answered the questions correctly if you want to know the truth.
Your false theology is from a Non-Trinitarian/ salvation by works viewpoint. Being born again is _ I believe _ something you have not yet experienced, so you should not attempt to explain it. I am sorry, I have to be blunt. I am sure Carl will be more gentle.

Find anywhere in the Bible where it says that Christ's righteousness is IMPUTED to us. You have simply been indoctrinated into a human religious reasoning that seeks to justify itself in its sinful state.

The works we are to do are pre-ordained in heaven....for the one who walks in eternal reality through grace.

And you are underestimating what the righteousness of God is if you think it is only one step above being a Pharisee.

The righteous are above the Pharisees. Righteousness is better than hypocrisy. God's righteousness is greater than the righteousness of man. That's the proper ranking.

Open your heart and your mind...and you will grow in understanding.

 

[MatthewG]

Hello, Bruno, Episo

I believe that righteousness is founded only in Christ who is the end of the law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes according to Romans Chapter 10:1-4.

Paul wrote his heart out for the love of his brethren however, they went around trying to established their own righteousness (just as Paul did before having a change of heart and mind meeting the Lord Jesus Christ)

The Word Brings Salvation
Romans 10: (Isaiah 65:1–16)
1Brothers, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for the Israelites is for their salvation. 2For I testify about them that they are zealous for God, but not on the basis of knowledge. 3Because they were ignorant of God’s righteousness and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4For Christ is the end of the law, to bring righteousness to everyone who believes.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Find anywhere in the Bible where it says that Christ's righteousness is IMPUTED to us. You have simply been indoctrinated into a human religious reasoning that seeks to justify itself in its sinful state.

Imputed shouldn’t be that difficult to understand. Sin was imputed to us through Adam.

>To ascribe to and possessed by someone by virtue of another’s act. Justification is this very thing.

Justified means pronounced righteous. We are granted His righteousness by His Grace. We are washed with His blood. We don’t earn salvation, and faith is a gift. He fulfilled the Law for us, by His righteous act. Are you not washed by His blood.

Romans 5:1 - Justified by faith

Titus 3:5 - declared righteous and freed from the guilt of sin.

Acts of the Apostles 20:24 - Btw, The race is our task to share the gospel of God’s grace.

Romans 3:24 - Justified by His grace through the redemption that came by Jesus

2 Corinthians 9:8 God is able to make all grace abound to you – in all things, at all times

2 Corinthians 12:9 - My Grace is sufficient for you, …Christ’s power may rest on me

Ephesians 1:6-7 - Grace is freely given, in Him we have redemption

Ephesians 2:6 - God raised us up with Christ – spiritually resurrected, born again

James 4:6 - God opposes the proud but gives Grace to the humble

Romans 9:30
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;

Romans 3:21
But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

1 Corinthians 1:30
But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,

2 Corinthians 5:21 God made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

The works we are to do are pre-ordained in heaven....for the one who walks in eternal reality through grace.

Absolutely. They are given to us by the Holy Spirit, Who dwells in us. If you have been born again, you become the Temple of the Holy Spirit. Of course you must believe that the Holy Spirit is God, the Comforter, Whom the Father sent, distinct from the Son. This is a difficult concept and confusing for a Non-Trinitarian to grasp.

And you are underestimating what the righteousness of God is if you think it is only one step above being a Pharisee.

You are the one who mentioned the Pharisees. Christ's teaching about that was merely stating that man's righteousness will not fulfill the Law, nor did anything that the Pharisees did or beyond achieve this. I think this is called litotes.

The righteous are above the Pharisees. Righteousness is better than hypocrisy. God's righteousness is greater than the righteousness of man.

Right and it is God's righteousness that is imputed to us. Of course one must believe that Jesus is God to believe that!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

They also received the holy spirit within when He breathed on them.

Wouldn't you say that when someone is born again, they not only are made a new creature, but also receive the Holy Spirit at the same time? Being in Christ is being born again. Spiritually one could not be in Christ otherwise.